How do I provide constructive help to inexperienced players in other classes?

So this is a general question about helping others. Last night I decided to go back and do a quick run with Halatali with my White Mage since I was so close to a level up anyway. None of the other players knew what they were doing because they were new to the dungeon, and they also rushed in with waiting to talk, or buf.

They genuinely seemed to be open to suggestion. But as a healer, I follow the tank. I let the tank lead and manage strategy. In this case, everybody was winging it, which is fine, everybody is still learning. But while I tried to help, I really didn't do very good at it I don't think. All the more so because on the PS3 I can't type and play at the same time, and they kept running ahead making it hard to have time to try and talk.

So yeah. How as a support role, do I communicate things I don't do myself, to others who may not be very good yet, especially given this "run in and hit stuff" approach some have at first? :confused:

EDIT: (Sorry for the long edit.. Adding Comments here because I am out of posts again)

Thanks for all the replies.

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Originally Posted by Nailkita

Avoid words that make it sound like you're blaming someone. Ask questions, or provide something as a tip.

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The hardest part is to not sound elitist or like you're telling them how to play. Make it sound like a suggestion not an order. And always tell why.

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Thank you, good thoughts.

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Originally Posted by Riko_113

I would recommend getting yourself a keyboard immediately. It makes a huge difference.

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Thanks, I did get a keyboard, and have been trying to use it more.

With a group that already is good about stopping to discuss etc, it works well, but the rush in types I can't put down the controller long enough to type, and because of focus issues I haven't found a way to type with one hand and heal with the other.

I might just not be coordinated enough honestly.. :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Riko_113

Ask questions that will lead into a helping suggestion.

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Thanks, this makes a lot of sense.

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Originally Posted by TyloRime

/em hopes everyone holds hands as he casts Protect!

/p Hey guys, let's talk some strategies before we all run off!

That way you don't have to type it, and it buys you time to actually type a message specific to whatever you're doing.

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Thanks, this is a good idea. I will try and create Prep & Protect macro.. Maybe greeting, "Casting protect!" protect.

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Originally Posted by RitzNBitz

I'll be quite honest with you, I feel the level 26 thermaltuge skill is more a necessity than many of the skills in our arsenal. I didnt have it up to L40 but there have been moments where I wish I had it, it wouldnt of had affected the outcome because I am good at what I do but it would of made it much easier. The time it would of affected the outcome as in a terrible group

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Thanks I have heard this many times and started leveling THM before I ever hit level 15 on my CNJ(though the skill can't be used until maybe Tam-Tara anyway).

But yeah this question is really more about communicating what I do know to those who don't, as opposed to simply survival strategy (that is another worthwhile topic though).

As this game is really at least a little bit social even with the DF, shouldn't we be trying to help each other out, instead of just coping?

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Originally Posted by Orophin

Honestly, without having played a class yourself it's really hard to give suggestions to people on how they're supposed to be playing their own class. There's probably some general things you can pick up on during fights, but as to the intricacies of how a class plays and what abilities it should be using when, that's kinda hard unless you have first hand knowledge of the class.

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Hmm. I don't want to write you off entirely, but I kinda feel I need to reply because it doesn't help my question.

I have played around with other classes, (THM, PUG, ARC, ACN, MRD) but that isn't the point really. You can give overall party and general strategy advice without knowing the specific class. And if you have played with enough of other players, you can usually get a feel for the weaknesses and strengths I think, especially since as I say, it is about working together.

I don't want to tell other people how to play their class per-se though if I have a specific tip that is great, but if I know a bit better how everyone can work as a team, or general role interactions, I want to know how to best help out, so they can learn their own roles in the party and in specific situations better. I hope this makes sense.

It helps if you have friends that do the other jobs, I always try to do a bit of each role when I'm playing an MMO. Avoid words that make it sound like you're blaming someone. Ask questions, or provide something as a tip.

For example, while playing my scholar, I was helping out a guildy do a lower level instance, and noticed that the arcanist in the group was always running out of MP. So I just piped in "Hey --, are you using your Aetherflow often? If you use it on CD and make use of your Energy Drain you'll have a lot more MP to kill things with"

No blaming, no calling them stupid, it's a shame with PS3 you'll have trouble typing, but the fuller the sentence the less offended someone will be. The hardest part is to not sound elitist or like you're telling them how to play. Make it sound like a suggestion not an order. And always tell why. I'm sure if I said "Hey Stupid use your f'ing Aetherflow" I wouldn't have gotten the "Oh thanks, I keep forgetting about it" response.

Well, as a fellow PS3 player, I would recommend getting yourself a keyboard immediately. It makes a huge difference.

Other than that, I've found it's best to start the group by saying "Hi" or something during the opening animations. It'll often let you know who's paying attention and is willing to communicate. Then I ask if anyone has been there before. If not, I let them know I'll explain the boss fights. A lot of people feel more comfortable and willing to accept your input knowing that you prior experience in an area they don't(not all will be so accepting). You can then start giving tips on things they can improve based on your higher level experiences dealing with those classes.

Now, tip from healer to healer: I let the tank lead usually too, assuming he knows what he's doing, but as a healer the team depends JUST as much on us as they do him. If he's running off w/o buffs then tell the team to hold still and wait for buffs. A more extreme approach, but still very viable, is honestly to let people who don't listen die due to their own stupidity. When the dog barks too much sometimes it's necessary to let the bark collar teach him. Personally, it kills me to do that as a healer so my fingers spasm themselves into healing mode, but it's been necessary at times.

Also, I would recommend leveling THM up to lvl 26 for swiftcast(once a minute you can cast a spell instantly). I won't say it's required, because it's up to you how you play, but it is a game changer. It can turn ANY bad situation into a guaranteed win if used appropriately by the healer or any other caster. With some stubborn teams it can be useful to have swiftcast+Protect or Stoneskin at the beginning of battle so they can't run off w/o the buffs.

Edit: Nailkita beat me to it, but absolutely right. Don't make it sound like a command. Ask questions that will lead into a helping suggestion.

I'll be quite honest with you, I feel the level 26 thermaltuge skill is more a necessity than many of the skills in our arsenal. I didnt have it up to L40 but there have been moments where I wish I had it, it wouldnt of had affected the outcome because I am good at what I do but it would of made it much easier. The time it would of affected the outcome as in a terrible group

I hear you on the whole "run in and hit stuff" issue and I think some Macros might help you. As a WHM it's also frustrating simply from the Protect-angle, in the sense that Tanks that run off the instant everyone is done watching the cutscene usually aren't in range for protect, so I've made a simple Protect macro to try and get people to stop and wait:

/em hopes everyone holds hands as he casts Protect!


It doesn't always work, but I've seen people stop and turn back and that always makes me smile heh. (It helps that I'm an adorable Lalafell ;) ) But perhaps until you can get a keyboard for your PS3, make a simple macro along the lines of: /p Hey guys, let's talk some strategies before we all run off!

That way you don't have to type it, and it buys you time to actually type a message specific to whatever you're doing.
PS - the other posters here aren't lying, Swiftcast is fantastic :D

Honestly, without having played a class yourself it's really hard to give suggestions to people on how they're supposed to be playing their own class. There's probably some general things you can pick up on during fights, but as to the intricacies of how a class plays and what abilities it should be using when, that's kinda hard unless you have first hand knowledge of the class.

I agree with Orophin; I haven't really played much of the other classes aside from THM so I tend to shy away from giving specific class tips. I usually just give boss strategies based on what has worked in past runs (like, for Copperbell for instance, one good run involved bringing the main boss over to where the other guys tended to go, then wailing on them over there).