You think you are "Hardcore/Elite"?

It always strikes me as odd, people who call out for a challenge yet complain they are stuck playing the game with "noobs" and "terrible players"

Wouldnt the greatest challenge then become someone who is helpful and kind to this new player and turn them from "noob" to "pro"? It would appear to be something not even the "elites" are able to accomplish. I wouldnt then trust their elite skills if they are not even able to pass them along to other people. Ones who call others down then leave the party would then be the bad player.

I did a Titan fight where we almost ran out of time because someone would keep getting knocked off. No one quit, no one raged. We were all supportive and offered advise and in the end we won. That felt like way more of an accomplishment then the 4 other times I ran it with my FC and won our first time.

I dare you to take up the most challenging position facing the "seasoned" generation of MMO players. Be helpful, kind, and patient, even if you lose in the end.

Just my 2gil.

EDIT:

I thought this a nice exchange to further explain my position on this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FrogDog

I'll give you an example. Last week in Brayflox...

Tank can't keep aggro on a single target, let alone multiple. Since I've played GLA the problem is readily apparent - he doesn't use flash, and he doesn't use the savage > rage combo, instead he just uses the riot blade combo. I wonder how he's made it this far by basically doing everything wrong but I do the nice thing and give him advice like you suggest; no response, and no change.

Whatever, I can CC. Oh wait, the BLM spams Fire II. Whatever, I can heal it.

We get to the last boss and tank, in caveman speak, informs us to stay out of poison. Ok, so he must know this fight at least, right? Wrong. He eats every poison breath and keeps the boss in poison. No matter how much say to move the boss and that it's healing from the poison it makes no difference. Eventually all the healing I'm having to do makes me pull threat so I use the opportunity to move the boss. We wipe anyway because the boss is interrupting my casts and the fight has been going on for awhile.

Second attempt I try to make the point again about the threat combo and moving the boss out of poison. Silence. Tank pulls. We get a little further because boss spits puddles on the ranged DPS for awhile but as soon as he spits on tank it's just like before.

Third attempt I'm losing my patience at this point and repeat what I've said again while adding that I shouldn't be pulling threat and that I'd leave if we didn't get it down this time. Fight goes basically the same way except a DPS pulls aggro before I do and dies from a breath. I die next from boss hitting me and interrupting casts. Tank finally dies but SMN manages to finish the fight.

Tank then said "good group". I snapped and told him he was terrible. Since patience and advice didn't work, I thought maybe honesty would. At least I got a response this time. "lol noob u stand in poson"

This was probably my worst experience with a person in DF so far but it wasn't unique.

---

I can understand the frustrations when something like this happens, I truly do. That Titan fight I talked about, every time we wiped it was due to the WHM not moving out of the way of the knock back move even after I explained that the only time I lose agro (I was tank) is when he goes to do that move. When you see him turn, start running. Eventually we got the hang of it and won. Getting something like that took almost the entire dungeon timer for a single, repeating boss fight. Doing a full dungeon, you don't have the luxury of repeating a section until everyone gets it down pat. Also, using the DF, its not like you can really mentor them after the fact. You have the one chance encounter with them to try and get it worked out.

Also I also understand that sometimes when you are offering advise, the receiver of that information might misinterpret it as an attack or an insult. Subtleties are lost in text.

There are a few things we need to keep in mind:
- Yoshi-P has designed this game to be welcoming to people who may have never touched an MMORPG, ergo some things that are obvious to us may be lost on others.
- This game is also on the PS3 and not everyone will have a keyboard and be able to type leading to "caveman speak" in order to get the point across before its too late.
- There will be asshats that play the game and do these things on purpose, good trolls may be hard to differentiate from someone truly struggling.
- As much as you might want to unload a string of frustrations on them, it will not help. There is another human being on the other end of the screen, (except for bots or RMT's, they arent human.)

Personally I want to help foster the next generation of MMO players, not discourage them. If all they run into are people calling them down or ripping into them, then they will quit and the genre could potentially die away. As I said in the OP, its just a personal point of view and I know not everyone will/has to agree with me. You dont sound like the type of player I was targeting anyway but I wanted to take some points from your post to bring a few other things to light. Thank you and please don't take it as a personal attack.

The only person I consider elite is my friend. Because he knows full well how to tank like a boss.

Well, that and he's a gigantic Square-Enix fanboy who's only hated games are 13-2, original 14, and I think X-2

I was once called Hardcore but that was only because i played for 20 hours that day. Bout all i got is time played. I'm in no way elite or hardcore when it comes to raiding, and i generally prefer to do instances with groups that have never done it before. Makes it way more fun when no one in the party has any idea what to expect.

They are hardcore. Not just anyone can afford not to have a job or a life and play all day, but some people are just better than that.

I too am hardcore in a sense that I spend hours on end playing. but if you stick me in a party where nobody knows a damn thing about a fight and I do, sure Ill be like aw man, but I wouldnt leave just for that. how do you expect people to learn.

the gratification you get from passing on the experience, even if its wipe after wipe, is more than enough reward. where is the fun if there is never a challenge.

I was in a Wanderer Place with this "ELITE" player and he kept dying, so he blamed everyone because he was so "ELITE." The Tank because the tank couldn't tank. The Healer because he couldn't heal. The DPS because he couldn't DPS. But he was the one that kept dying.

Then I get into other Duty Finder where we have people leading the group by telling everyone where to go and they don't get angry when someone makes a mistake and die. Some of the group, 6 out of 8 people are there for the first time.

Guess which one of that group didn't have a group wipe and didn't quit after the second boss? Certainly wasn't with the "ELITE" player group.

You wanna know whats elite and hardcore, FFXIV 1.0.

They're not Hardcore/Elite. They are just rushers.

Hardcore/Elites now are working on building their characters before hitting endgame after their main storyline because they know there are still things that need to be done before hitting endgame such as getting the money to support endgame run's repair bills, cross-skills that will help make their Job role more effective, and working on their crafts and gathering to provide the supplies and currency for any future endgame stuff and supplies.

"Just my 2gil" Sorry. I'm going to use that. A LOT.

I would generally consider myself a hardcore player (although definitely not as hardcore as some..). I play a healer main, and have a tank as well, and - not bragging here - am pretty good on both.

I AM guilty of complaining about noobs, but its usually exclusive to tanks. I'm finding in this game that there are a LOT of people who do not know how to tank. People (usually gladiators) who attack a single target, use all the wrong abilities (had one spamming the mp drain slash an not a single move for enmity), and don't bother to attack enemies, or even walk towards enemies that have started attacking the healer or dps. Literally 95% of the Duty Finder tanks I've met are this bad. I'm level 38 and have met 5 good gladiators/paladins, and I've only seen two Marauders and both have been good. I would offer helpful advice to them in the dungeon, but that comes off as quite... rude... when you advise the tank on how to do their job, if they even read the chat, or bother to respond.

Rant aside, I'm usually quite patient, and with players on my own server who I know there's a chance I may encounter a few times, I usually help them in any way I can. If somebody is having a difficult time tanking, I'll instruct them on how to use their enmity moves, certain rotations, and how it is effective to tab target and and attack multiple targets individually. I don't mind helping them gear up, since I have the crafting/gathering classes and the time to do it, and I love running low level dungeons to either help them through the story or get some practice with a healer who is forgiving and can make up for a few mistakes.

In dungeons where there are difficult mechanics, if we wipe more than once or twice I usually talk to each person individually and try to come up with strategies for that particular encounter, and make sure they have an idea of what they can do to make it work.

*Edit*

Just some thoughts on the massive influx of noobish tanks. I have the feeling that the majority of people are drawn to the standard melee classes, your sword and shield, or marauder style two handed weapons. As a new player to any game, its usually the safest route to go, and the most standard. The only thing is, this game doesn't have multiple specs for each class. If you are a gladiator, you ARE a tank, and I have a feeling that well over 50% of Gladiators/Marauders didn't know this when they chose the class - heck, maybe they didn't know what a "tank" was at all. Especially with the marauder - just by looking at one, your average MMO player would instantly think its a DPS class. I know I did, and I was surprised when someone told me it was a tank. I'm personally fine with this feature of each class being assigned a specific role, but its probably the main reason for a lot of inexperienced tanks.