Okay, my issue isn't the usual "synth should or should not break at 100% (0 dura)" arguement. I agree if dura is 0, synth should fail, even at 100%.
My problem is a little different. In a nutshell, I feel like a lot of the "break @ 100%" situations are not justified because the last synth attempt often overcharges your dura. Let me elaborate:
First a quick recap of the outcome of "Standard Synthesis", not counting when unstable:
[Perfect Success] (high pitch sound effect)
Progress usually: 15 ~ 20max
Dura Loss usually: 0 ~ 4
[Adequate Success]
Progress usually: 10 ~ 20max
Dura Loss usually: 5 ~ 9
[Fail]
Progress usually: 0 ~ 10max
Dura Loss usually: 10 ~ 15
Most people would agree those are pretty good estimates of standard synth with a stable core. Now to explain the actual issue. Below is an example of what currently happens in the game.
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Prog 97% & Dura 4
>Standard - Adequate Success "Prog increases 20%, Dura decreases 7"
Prog 100% & Dura 0
>BREAK
You work a synth up till 97%/4dura, you do 1 more synth, and break at 100%, but I call BS on that. Why is the game allowing your progress to go over 100%? In reality that's telling me, "you're gonna spend 7 dura to work this synth to 117%" ....wtf?
The game should NOT let you do more work than needed to finish the synth. Here you can make the arguement, "If the game wants to charge you dura for over 100% progress, then it should also let you complete an item with 0 dura. It's unfair to have one without the other."
But honestly, I think it would be better to have neither and tweak the system. What should've happened just now was something like this:
Prog 97% & Dura 4
>Standard - Adequate Success "Prog increases 3%, Dura decreases 1"
Prog 100% & Dura 3
>SUCCESS
See this makes sense to me. This says, "the random number generator in the game said you should've spent 7dura for 20% prog, but since you can only go 3% more, you will only lose a proportional amount, which is 1 dura".
_ _ _
Again, right now:
Prog 94% & Dura 7
>Standard - Fail "Prog increases 10%, Dura decreases 8"
Prog 100% & Dura 0
>BREAK
Spending 8 dura to get to 104% ... makes no sense. It should be:
Prog 94% & Dura 7
>Standard - Fail "Prog increases 6%, Dura decreases 5"
Prog 100% & Dura 2
>SUCCESS
This is a fair outcome. "Random Num Generator said you should've spent 8 dura to work 10%, but since you can't go further than 6%, you only lose 5". Do the math: (8/10)*(x/6) ==>> 10x=48 ==>> x=4.8 ==> 5 dura for 6%
_ _ _
Now I'm not sure if the game rolls the dice to determine if each Standard synth should be a [Perfect Success], [Adequate Success], or [Fail] first, and then uses that in another dice roll to see what your Prog/Dura will be ..... or if it figures out your Prog/Dura first, and that determines your [PS] [AS] [F] outcome. Either way, it should not matter. The game should operate on the simple fact that, "It should cost less durability to make 7% prog than it does to make 20% prog."
Crafting should be tweaked such that your progress from all synthesis attempts should not exceed 100%, and thus, the last synth attempt should have it's calculation adjusted so the possible dura loss will match the possible progress.
That being said, if this WAS implented, it would not eliminate all "break @ 100%" situations, but it would definitely reduce the occurences that happen; plus it would make the ones that do break easier to swallow.
Unjustified "fail @ 100%" synths -- a suggested tweak
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04-24-2011, 11:39 AMJesiOver 100% progress synthesis -- What?
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04-24-2011, 12:12 PMLienn
100% fail is correct. If your HP reaches 0, you die...same works for crafting.
Also, overkill is allowed in every FF game until now...same works for cfarting.
Keeping durability is part of the challenge of crafting here. If 0dura/100% was allowed, people wouldn't care much about unstable and would spam rapid in the end regardless of durability.
Also, allowing 0/100% would generate a much more frustrating situation...if you can complete a synth this way it would be good for materials and leves only...because once the finished item enter in touch up mode it would automatically break due 0 dura.
Complaining about this is the same of complaining a cactuar r20 killed your r50 class. Its part of the game...just assume it might happen and move foward ^^ -
04-25-2011, 02:15 PMTheVedis
already a thread on this, with dev response
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...9-100-You-FAIL! -
04-26-2011, 12:01 AMSuetan
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04-26-2011, 10:17 PMJesiThat was the case in the beta when the durability lost by all actions were "lower than intended" according to the devs, and then they changed it to the current system. I'm not talking about adjusting durability loss for those actions. I'm only saying that you should not be able to craft something over 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lienn
I understand that "overkill" has been in FF games for a long time, but that's for battling. If you use a gun to shoot someone, they die. If you use a nuclear bomb to kill someone, they die. That is overkill.
If you're baking a cake in a regular kitchen oven, it bakes and can burn if you leave it in too long, meaning it's ruined. If you bake a cake over a volcano, it bakes and can burn if you leave it in too long, meaning it still gets ruined. There is no overkill when you create an item, it's done when it's done, otherwise you're just going to ruin it and fail.
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Lienn, I dont understand what you mean when you say,
If you're crafting a finished item and you're in a situation where you just barely get to 100% with very little durability left, why would it suddenly break when you enter the touch up phase? No one would touch that up, you just finish the synth immediately after 100%Quote:
Originally Posted by Lienn
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I don't think that's a good analogy for what I was trying to say. That implies that you fail doing something that would be "Too weak" compared to your current skill level. I'm talking about the very nature of the current synthesis system where it lets you go over 100% completion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lienn
If you want an analogy for a battle situation.... this is like when you're fighting a cactuar and you start casting Stoneskin to help reduce damage from 1000 needles, but the casting bar keeps going after it passes the "casting time" for the spell and you get hit with 1000 needles before Stoneskin goes off. You get frustrated and say, "wtf? when you're done casting a spell it should go off! How the hell do i cast a spell over 100%?"
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I realized there was another thread before I posted and I was debating whether I should post there. The reason I chose to make a new thread was because my arguement wasn't if a synthesis should break at 0 durability, it's just about a going over 100% when crafting. So I figured that warranted a new thread. Of course in hindsight, I probably should of named my thread "Over 100% progess in synthesis", or something. Sorry about that!Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVedis
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04-26-2011, 10:32 PMRenshi
ZOMBIE POSTING!
nduuuuuuuuudhhhhbrains
Heya!
Considering that I like the system as it is now and it doesn't need any revamp, I'm gonna say my 2 cents about how it would be nice to be, but it doesn't have to.
I find the 100% failing very. Very. VERY frustrating, but it's kind of alright. If you complete an item with 0 durability, if you'd use it it would turn into a plump of useless puke. Regards on how frustrating this is, I'd keep this one.
I agree to the randomness of the success though. When I've crafted a better hammer for my Blacksmith, I was thinking of "Wow! Now sh*t just got real!", and at the end I found myself failing slightly less, but still markably.
I like the system as it is though, as it gives me more satisfaction when I do things. I don't like to craft when I'm sure something is successful; it doesn't give me any satisfaction or sensation of success, just a "woo hoo. I did it.", but with the actual system I really feel like "I've tried so long for this and now I did it! Man I'M SO F*CKING [SIZE=5]HARD[SIZE=6]CORE[/SIZE][SIZE=7]![/SIZE][/SIZE]"
See ya!
ghndndddddddddnghuuuuhPineapple -
04-26-2011, 10:38 PMJesiThis is why i started a new thread, with hopes of avoiding posts debating success/fail at 0 dura instead of my point of over 100% progress.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renshi
Guess I should just be mad at myself for not picking a better thread name. ~_~ -
04-26-2011, 10:49 PMRenshiDon't blame it on yourself, as there couldn't be a better thread title. I was just zombying because I was going to take a shower and didn't want to think for a formal answer =) /honestQuote:
Originally Posted by Jesi
Your idea is kind of alright, I think. If you're at 99% it's also real that you spend less effort to reach 100%.
But I was thinking that as it is for now, in the animation it is like they put the same effort from 99% to 100% as the 50% to 70%, so in the means of animation it's alright to spend more durability.
Your solution is good if they want to resolve the issue of failing at 100% frustration anyway. I simply don't like it because it eases things, and I like hard things =D
But again, it's the global opinion that counts.
Sorry for that! See ya! -
04-28-2011, 12:19 AMPeregrine
Why are people trying so hard to nickel and dime Square out of fractions of remainders and 1% of progress....this is crazy. No matter how many of these tiny things they give you...whether it's success at 0 durability versus 1 durability or if they essentially pro-rate you durability for durability not used to get to 100% complete...there's always going to be a cutoff.
The changes will just make you grow bolder in pushing a synth you already pushed too much, so it's a futile patch. If you are at 97% progress with 4 durability left, you're boned. Don't get to that point and even expect success. Don't let that 97% comlete fool you. You, in fact, were not that successful at this synth if you find yourself in that situation. It's probably time to find an easier synth or just straight accept the fact that you will fail some.
97% complete with 20-30 durability left=good
97% complete with 1-10 durability left=you didn't actually do very well in the entire process. You can't even argue that you "practically finished it" if in fact 7 times out of 10 you would actually fail.
Moral of the story is instead of asking for a nickel and dime break, don't leave home without enough change to begin with. -
04-28-2011, 01:27 AMSmokie23Its not whether the person did a 'good synth' or a 'bad synth'. Its the point that when you get to this point that all is needed is 3% to finish the item. The original post is correct. If I only need 3% to finish why is it calculating as if 20% or more is left?? I agree that if only 3% is needed then there is no way you should need all that durability to finish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine
But I do agree with you that you shouldn't let this happen by either ranking up beyond what you need to make it or by using higher quality materials.