Misleading English translation of a major story element in the 7.4 MSQ (Big Spoilers)

TL;DR: the withering isn't real(?)

There's been a lot of speculation over "the great withering" mentioned by Halmarut at the end of the 7.4 MSQ and what it means. Out of curiosity I looked at the Japanese version of this scene, only to find this term is nowhere to be found.

Here's the line from the English localization that I'm talking about:

EN:
Halmarut: "For soon, it begins, and every world shall tremble. The Winterers must be prepared to outlast the great withering to come."

Now here's what she actually says in Japanese, along with a rough machine translation:

JP:
"問もなく、すべての世界を揺るがす異変が起き始める私たち「ウインタラー」が超えるべき、厳しい冬の訪れです。"

Translation:
"Soon, strange events that will shake the entire world will begin to occur, and the harsh winter will arrive, something that we 'winterers' must overcome."

No mention of any "withering" here. She does however talk about a "harsh winter" (厳しい冬) that is approaching... which is probably why they're called the Winterers, and not the Witherers.
The part about strange events occurring has been cut as well, obfuscated into simply "it begins".

By inventing this term they've added a specific meaning that the Japanese did not imply, while also obfuscating the reason this organization is called Winterers. Are they trying to bring a winter to stop the world from withering in the heat? Is the world decaying? If you play in English, who knows. I wouldn't be surprised if this backfires later, as the EN "localization" team's changes often do. (see: the lifestream, originals, the echo, etc).

In case you needed more convincing, here's what the winter is called in the French and German localizations according to a user from discord:
FR: Un hiver sans précédent -> "an unprecedented winter"
DE: der eisigen Kälte -> "the icy cold"

It looks like the English team are up to their nonsense again.

There's more stuff wrong with this scene in the English version, such as Halmarut's fangirling over the Warrior of Light being greatly downplayed, Calyx's lines being wrong, or the EN saying that Halmarut can hear "nature's proclamation"... but this post is fairly long already.

I felt the need to make this post because I see a lot of lore enthusiasts fixating on the word "withering" and its implications, unaware that they're theorycrafting with bad information. English speaking players deserve to know what the characters in the story are really saying.

Thanks for sharing - and your translation of the JP version actually makes more sense.

Yeah, I made a thread about it earlier, but this entire patch is a garbled mess in terms of rhe EN translation. It's vexing..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Underscore

which is probably why they're called the Winterers, and not the Witherers.

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To winter, as a verb, is to wait out the winter in a safe place.

To wither is simply to wither, or perhaps to cause the withering of something else.

I won't dispute that there seem to be contradictions in the English script at this point, but the terms are certainly not interchangeable for the title of their organisation, even if a time of withering and a time of winter are sufficiently close for the translators to blur those lines. And they probably have a much better idea of where the story is going than we do.

This seems like a negligible change. Stuff has a tendency to wither around winter.

its not going to change the story or whatever is coming next, so why bother

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Underscore

TL;DR: the withering isn't real
Now here's what she actually says in Japanese, along with a rough machine translation:

JP:
すべての世界

Translation:
the entire world

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If you're going to trust machine translation over the fact that the context talks about multiple shards modifying すべて instead of referring to a singular 世界, I don't think you should be lecturing the devs on anything.
I really hate anyone that can't even pass a JPLT N5 trying to lecture people on "misleading" when we can't even pass the hurdle of basic context grammar being used as fuel for the "anti-localizer" culture war.

I have times when I flinch because issues with the translation whenever I play on my main hearing the differences in JP voiced dialogue versus English.
I have issues for certain decisions early on in ARR (particularly Urianger's speech, but I consider that a different canon when it's EN) whenever I play with two other alts that compare each of the actual text dialogue when I switch languages fully to both EN and JP.
But this is such a nothing burger it's ridiculous what you're trying to make of it.

At least have the decency to post this using your own JP knowledge or someone else who speaks the language to back up your claim instead of trusting a knowingly faulty machine that can't grasp a context heavy language in a game with major plot specific vocabulary.

Dawntrail really is Stormblood II.
People using Google Translate to do things like this lmao

Welcome back, Stormblood.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shadowofchao725

But this is such a nothing burger it's ridiculous what you're trying to make of it.

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I mean you kinda ignored the main point of the post just to nitpick but ok.

The English is the only one to make what's coming sound like a proper noun. "The Great Withering". All the other languages just say it's gonna be extra cold. The name "Winterers" was already not super well received and now they don't even talk about whatever coming calamity as a 'winter' so the name doesn't even make good sense.

"The great withering" isn't used as a proper noun. There is no evidence at current that the circumstances that Halmarut is talking about have a proper name, and I didn't take her mention of it to be as such. Calling these circumstances "the great withering" as such, by fans, is just because it's all we have to go on right now. In all languages, she uses this phrase as a colloquialism or turn of phrase.

It serves it's purpose in the given scene, to give a certain impression of events. You must remember that the English localisation is done in-house, alongside the JP script. While the English localisation has sometimes given a slightly different impression on certain elements in the past, I trust that they are aware enough of the story that the casual use of "things will soon be withering" and "we're in for a long winter" is not impacting anything of note. I'm sure we'll get a proper noun name, akin to the Final Days, at some point!

I think it's very fun to be able to see both the JP/FR/DE and EN localisations, like cool, two cakes! I like the flavours of both, and they can be enjoyed together, rather than in opposition. Nobody eating just one cake is going to be losing out on anything in this scenario, however.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

I mean you kinda ignored the main point of the post just to nitpick but ok.

The English is the only one to make what's coming sound like a proper noun. "The Great Withering". All the other languages just say it's gonna be extra cold. The name "Winterers" was already not super well received and now they don't even talk about whatever coming calamity as a 'winter' so the name doesn't even make good sense.

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That's the funny thing with Japanese.
The things you expect proper nouns for don't get them from time to time.

I do not have the script on hand but there have been times in the story that the English script has to specify a name to make it flow better.
Meanwhile the JP script goes like 自警団 (Vigilante/Miltary force) or some OTHER generic name when they were referring to things like Crystal Braves.
Or 災い when referring specifically to the Seventh Umbral Calamity.
第七霊災 sometimes, but only 霊災 others. Japanese is context heavy. It omits proper nouns all the time.
Another one in Heavensward that was repeatedly said was "Holy See of Ishgard" is just "the church" and "Heaven's Ward" is directly referring to "The Blue Skies of Ishgard" from Heavensward's JP title being lost.

The Crystal Exarch is "crystal government official", in the most BORING and MUNDANE "I don't want to go to the government office/DMV" kanji you could think of.
The main point: Titles for plot important things are up to the discretion of the translator. To best convey to the audience speaking in that language how important something is. And that changes with every language.

厳しい冬 (being referred to in English at THE withering), but can be seen literally translated as "a great and terrible, famine-like winter" (That is implied to cause death, which can be changed to a title that could be something that causes death like withering) being used in that manner.
What I said about this being a literal nothingburger towards the OP is what I'm sticking to.

If they're fine with "calamites" having specific names like "The Flood of Light" for specific aspected disasters, they SHOULD be fine with an implied winter calamity that causes withering. Which winter does.

"There is no evidence it's a proper noun."
Yeah, like 500 other important things in the story in JP in the whole history of this game aren't either.

I'm nitpicking a nitpick with a clickbait title thread from someone that has ARGUABLY limited knowledge of the source language material that they weren't aware this has been happening and accepted.
Machine translation to nitpick localization choices is a plague. Especially for a context heavy language like Japanese compared to something more closely able to be directly translated.

I appreciate you pointing out that I omitted defending my position in the original post.
But alas I've had enough this discourse for one lifetime.
I've pointed out the flaw in OP trusting machine translation and I've provided enough context as a speaker of both English and Japanese. That's enough for me.