ROTATION CHANGES
Dark Arts Stance - One stance 'Drain Stance' drains mp (if available) every time a combo is finished (delirium or basic) while it is up to build charges (up to 5) of a new gauge based on every 4k mp lost, opposite stance 'Heal Stance' causes weaponskills to deliver a cure per hit based on the potency of your attacks (not sure on potency, think similar to old Warrior Raw Intuition) (fix DRK's sustain problem, and offer a unique identity among all tanks in aligning with old HW DRK's Stance Dancing style gameplay, while limiting making new gameplay friction due to rarely needing to change stance in Raiding content)
Delirium - Grants 50 Blood instantly on top of Blood Weapon charges, Blood Weapon stacks raised to 4, each stack of Blood Weapon gives 500 extra MP
AOE 12 combo and basic 123 combo - give 1k MP total per combo without Blood Weapon's effect active
Edge - Costs a charge of new gauge instead of MP, Dark Arts effect on use removed, elsewise unchanged (maybe a VFX update)
Salted Earth + Salt and Darkness - removed, turned into reworked VFX Tar Pit + new follow up (both off global cooldowns), 30s cd. consumes a charge of new gauge (Salt and Darkness does not feel impactful to use in terms of VFX, DOT feels unaligned with DRK's identity, 90s cd does not interact with kit well, fixes problem of 1 minute and filler feeling boring and empty)
Carve and Spit/Abyssal Drain - Gain a follow-up GCD after use which upgrades Bloodspiller/Quietus to a new Skill which consumes 100 blood (Incentivizes good Blood Management during filler)
Disesteem - Consumes Living Shadow for a potency boost while used with Shadow active, elsewise unchanged (Shadow does not feel modern in its use, while Disesteem can easily be used to fix this)
Torcleaver Combo - Each GCD grants a buff which is consumed to upgrade edge into its own 3-part combo (think free-form continuation, similar to Viper's Awakening)
MITIGATION CHANGES
Dark Missionary - Moved to level 70, 10% pure mit
The Blackest Night (TBN) - keep shield the same, add 15% mit on self, 10% mit on others, when it breaks grants a HoT (from level 82 onward), 7s duration, still 15s cd but does not consume charges, lesser version of it which unlocks at low levels (probably just current TBN without MP cost)
Oblation - Removed (Replaced by enhanced TBN's mit + HoT)
Dark Mind - 10% Mit, Grants a shield scaled based on the potency of your previous attack/attacks (400-800 potency range), 60s cd kept
Living Dead - No longer has a fail state after it triggers, gives the sustain effect of Dark Arts Heal Stance while still in Drain Stance for the duration of Living Dead once 'death' is triggered
DRK Rework Proposal
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08-09-2024, 01:48 PMDrak_DRK Rework Proposal
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08-09-2024, 01:49 PMDrak_Continued / My Thoughts
Hello, as I'm sure many of you are aware, discourse recently around tanks has centered on the fact that Dark Knight no longer feels in line with the job design of the game, and as a result many of us have spoken about the potential for a rework. This post contains my own proposal and thoughts as a DRK Main with around 2500 hours played of the current iteration of Dark Knight from Endwalker to Current.
This is something I've thought about extensively ever since Dawntrail's release, as I came to the realization that despite getting everything I personally wanted for the job come 7.0, its gameplay and identity still felt lacking. Hopefully, those of you on here can see my ideas and come up with your own, and maybe the devs can take some of them in mind when attempting to fix the job's current problems.
In designing my own rework, I strived to identify what things have defined Dark Knight over the years, and come up with a kit which attempts to integrates those which are good, and removes what I think are currently problems. Mainly I focused to address lack of identity, lack of sustain, fix the problems of filler and one minute bursts being boring, and create things to tie together abilities and skills other than just "use on cooldown". -
08-09-2024, 03:14 PMRinaB
I've read and respect everything you've had to say but drk whiners are just as toxic as the healer strikers. Be prepared for some echo chamber idiot to make a 8 paragraph post why you're wrong. My issue is should tanks have as much sustain as they do now or not because if they should then why doesn't drk?
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08-09-2024, 04:32 PMReinhardt_AzureheimI wonder what echo chamber idiot making 8-paragraph post you could be referring to? Got any past experiences with that?Quote:
Originally Posted by RinaB
As for main post:- Dark Arts Stance - cool concept and a bit of homage to HW Darkside, I like it. Cure stance would be good for sustain, but if the tradeoff is damage, that might bring issues.
- Delirium + combos - basically a resource bomb and retooling some of the stacks and numbers. DPS numbers can always be tuned, but the shift in used actions is what is more interesting. No complaints from me^^
- Edge + Tar Pit - a welcome job mechanic that isn't up to 60s of Darkside upkeep or Bloodspiller gauge. Personally I think Salted Earth visually is cool, but that's just my opinion.
- Carve/AD -> GCD enhancer for BS / Quietus - I LOVE THIS, actually. If I may give my take, rather than fix 100 make it dynamic 50-100 where it drains all of it and more damage the more you had, like Apex Arrow from Bard. Would require more flexible blood building and spending though, but I love the concept anyhow.
- Disesteem - kind of feels whatever to me. I just don't like how Living Shadow works right now.
- Torcleaver combo - ya know, if they made Torcleaver combo budget Gnashing Fang, then might as well lean fully into it. Cool stuff.
As for mitigation...- Dark Missionary - long time request with the level. Pure mit is also ok, I just wish it had a bit more nuance to it, ya know? It's a bit basic.
- The Blackest Night - since you decoupled MP from Edge/Flood(?), this opened TBN a bit, regen on break is welcome. Would this interact with the Drain Stance MP threshold of every 4000 MP spent to generate a charge? On the added mitigation, I will speak more in depth on Oblation.
- Dark Mind - an interesting take from the usual suggestions for Dark Mind. Rather than keeping the magic mitigation niche stronger and like half for physical or some other simplicity, you instead went for a dynamic shield being created, which can definitely be impactful. Important to note is that the value of shield + mitigation combined on average needs to be equal to what Dark Mind provides vs magic damage (20% mitigation, or +25% effective HP). As long as the numbers are well tuned, this is great.
- Living Dead - sort of whatever...? The failstate really is just a basic skill check or a healer awareness check if not targets are around. It's not bad, but it feels like unnecessary integration with your Cure stance synergy.
Now, let me talk about Oblation and forgive me for being a paragraph demon on this one...
First of all, your idea is technically sound if it was added to TBN, if TBN had no on-break effect. Added mitigation would just make this more difficult to trigger, making it clunky.
Secondly, the 5% extra when folded onto TBN but only for personal use is a very small gain in personal mitigation, but Oblation's greatest strength is flexibility of letting you choose independently of TBN who to give single-target mitigation to. Even if you had "more Oblation" by virtue of pumping it out with TBN to teammates, there are a variety of cases where you'd preferably use them on separate occasions, such as giving 2x Oblation to your healers and 1x TBN to a caster if you wanna be extra sure for physical raidwide attacks (low phys DEF) or preventing overmitigation on attacks that dont need as much.
Put very simple and short - it is not worth folding TBN and Oblation together, because Oblation's flexibility is what makes it a good cooldown. Losing this flexibility would be tragic. -
08-09-2024, 05:52 PMZairava
- Dark Arts Stance/Heal Stance: I do like this, but I would prefer if it were Darkside since that's what its original shtick was. As for what to do with Dark Arts, I just want it returned as an action that we use, plain and simple. It feels better to me to have the agency rather than just having it built in.
- Regarding MP: I still feel like it's quite low especially given the Dark Arts Stance concept. 4k MP is 40% of our MP bar. Though this could just be my Stormblood brain wanting the glory days of the most fun MP and gauge management I've had the pleasure of playing.
- Edge and Tar Pit: I would miss Salted Earth, but I do like Tar Pit and I'll take this in place of maintaining a thoughtless timer.
- C&S/AD: Okay, I actually love this idea. I'm also putting in my vote with Reinhardt to make it more dynamic with 50 gauge(min potency) to 100 gauge(max potency)
- Disesteem: I honestly just don't like Living Shadow as a whole and would prefer an actual DoT to manage and/or just keep Disesteem (it's cool, okay?) and give us another method of access. Perhaps this could be the Bloodspiller upgrade from Carve and Spit?
- Dark Missionary: Longstanding request. Though I would really prefer they kept the magic mit and put some phys mit on top to keep it different from the others..
- Dark Mind: Something actually different suggested is welcome. I would happily take this instead of just being another boring flat mit.
- TBN + Oblation: If TBN isn't kept as an "on break" then this is fine, but I vastly prefer the flexibility of oblation being another CD whether or not this is the case. Though I DO like the on-break granting a regen.
- Living Dead: I really don't see the point of removing the fail state when we would have heal stance + the sustain they added to LD.
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08-09-2024, 07:00 PMDrak_reply
[*]Living Dead - sort of whatev...? The failstate really is just a basic skill check or a healer awareness check if not targets are around. It's not bad, but it feels like unnecessary integration with your Cure stance synergy.[/list]
The fail state isn't frequent now, but it existing at all is still ridiculous and should be removed.
Now, let me talk about Oblation and forgive me for being a paragraph demon on this one...
First of all, your idea is technically sound if it was added to TBN, if TBN had no on-break effect. Added mitigation would just make this more difficult to trigger, making it clunky.
Secondly, the 5% extra when folded onto TBN but only for personal use is a very small gain in personal mitigation, but Oblation's greatest strength is flexibility of letting you choose independently of TBN who to give single-target mitigation to. Even if you had "more Oblation" by virtue of pumping it out with TBN to teammates, there are a variety of cases where you'd preferably use them on separate occasions, such as giving 2x Oblation to your healers and 1x TBN to a caster if you wanna be extra sure for physical raidwide attacks (low phys DEF) or preventing overmitigation on attacks that dont need as much.
Put very simple and short - it is not worth folding TBN and Oblation together, because Oblation's flexibility is what makes it a good cooldown. Losing this flexibility would be tragic.[/QUOTE]
As someone who has played DRK in all content from Normal mode to Ultimate, the time Oblation being seperate is useful enough to feel like "I really like this skill" (especially considering TBN no longer being tied to damage) is so obscenely rare that I'd rather just have the extra weave slot when trying to use TBN during Burst when your ogcd slots are a limited commodity. -
08-09-2024, 07:35 PMDrak_I actually MP mapped this and 4k MP is the perfect amount to not increase edge use (unneccesary), I originally considered 2k MP but this would up doubling edge count, and thus causing more harm than goodQuote:
Originally Posted by Zairava
Mitigation:
Dark Missionary: Longstanding request. Though I would really prefer they kept the magic mit and put some phys mit on top to keep it different from the others..
The Magic mitigation is an unnecessary and frankfully harmful identity to have, as it damages the rest of the jobs identity -
08-09-2024, 08:13 PMZairavaYeah I'm just not rendering this because active MP management would be the best way forward, in my opinion. I see restricting how much MP we can spend as a detrimental limitation of design. This isn't to say make it outrageously high, either. All this would mean is we would use edge to prevent overcap and/or use it as best suited for that individual encounter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drak_
I don't really see how it damages the jobs identity when it was the magic defense tank to begin with. Making it just a flat mit removes and replaces it with essentially nothing as it's a defensive action and I don't really see that as necessary when we can just give it the feint/addle treatment.Quote:
The Magic mitigation is an unnecessary and frankfully harmful identity to have, as it damages the rest of the jobs identity
If we were to make it better for an identity for DRK I would rather it be a shield and not flat mit.