Why not having "Difficult" jobs?

why not just have a role that have high skill ceiling?

for example:

Tanks that have high skill ceiling can put higher damage than others but require more skill.

DPS that have high skill ceiling can put higher damage than others but require more skill.

Healer that have high skill ceiling can put higher party support than others but require more skill.

I don't want to see Viper turn into new Dark Knight.

Because the casuals will cry that it's not fair that someone else is doing more damage than them and demand the same damage output regardless of how shitty they play.

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Originally Posted by Karious

Because the casuals will cry that it's not fair that someone else is doing more damage than them and demand the same damage output regardless of how shitty they play.

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Why casual care about damage when they only do casual content?
unless they are doing high level raids, that what I call skill issue

I would love for them to give us a "difficult" healer...

Their skill ceiling heavily depends on how well the rest of the party dodges.

The probable answer: JP casuals are not in the same solar system as EN casuals in terms of how casual they are.

I like to think of myself as casual, but I enjoy a little complexity in my day-to-day stomping. Viper was a welcome change to the usual brain-dead slowness of DPS classes.

I don't browse the JP forums, but I've heard from those who do that they were absolutely foaming at the mouth that Viper was not friendly enough to casuals.

And, of course, they get priority when it comes to feedback. Because JP game.

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

The probable answer: JP casuals are not in the same solar system as EN casuals in terms of how casual they are.

I like to think of myself as casual, but I enjoy a little complexity in my day-to-day stomping. Viper was a welcome change to the usual brain-dead slowness of DPS classes.

I don't browse the JP forums, but I've heard from those who do that they were absolutely foaming at the mouth that Viper was not friendly enough to casuals.

And, of course, they get priority when it comes to feedback. Because JP game.

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JP is minority, the game is international.. if you want to listen to JP players do that change in JP servers.. international servers do not welcome that change and I believe JP hardcore players do.
I believe that most of JP players will move to EU/US/OC servers once that implemented but i don't think that so

A lot of people will say it's the casuals, but I actually feel like simplifying jobs is more oriented toward savage raiders. The fact is, casual players actually will happily play classes of any complexity, because the majority of them are happy to have fun while ignoring half of their buttons. They don't try to play optimally and they don't know exactly how much damage they're actually doing, so the majority of the time, they don't actually know how complex their class even is to begin with and they're willing to put up with far more than someone looking to fully master a given class. This was my experience as a new player and I'm pretty certain it's most people I see in dungeons.

When MMOs homogenize or simplify classes, I feel like it comes down to balancing. The fact is, the raiding community goes ballistic if one class is even slightly weaker, even if the missing damage is ultimately inconsequential. This results in situations where certain classes simply can't have unique or varied burst design, or else they might not line up well and wind up doing far less damage and looking far weaker in certain encounters and seen as worthless (RIP old Summoner, my favorite DPS class for non-raid content). Furthermore, complexity is directly in opposition to balancing because it means you're doing more work on one class to achieve the exact same damage on another class. If they made a certain class very difficult and busy, you'd probably expect that class to do significantly more damage than its simpler equivalent, but if they'd implement such a distinction, I feel like a lot of people would complain that they feel unfairly forced to play the harder class. So overall, they do usually have more complex options (for anything that isn't healers at least, RIP healer mains lmao), but I think that's generally the biggest thing keeping them from implementing much more complex classes. A lot of their changes to classes in the past have been raider oriented, and if you need any proof of that, SCH's changes in 7.0 scream raid design. Their new damage button is on a 120s cd tied to their burst window button, which is completely nonsense design outside of a raiding context. The fact is, job design in XIV is inherently raider oriented, and that's the reason classes are "simple". They're easier to balance and design content for them.

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Originally Posted by Soxxx

A lot of people will say it's the casuals, but I actually feel like simplifying jobs is more oriented toward savage raiders. The fact is, casual players actually will happily play classes of any complexity, because the majority of them are happy to have fun while ignoring half of their buttons. They don't try to play optimally and they don't know exactly how much damage they're actually doing, so the majority of the time, they don't actually know how complex their class even is to begin with and they're willing to put up with far more than someone looking to fully master a given class. This was my experience as a new player and I'm pretty certain it's most people I see in dungeons.

When MMOs homogenize or simplify classes, I feel like it comes down to balancing. The fact is, the raiding community goes ballistic if one class is even slightly weaker, even if the missing damage is ultimately inconsequential. This results in situations where certain classes simply can't have unique or varied burst design, or else they might not line up well and wind up doing far less damage and looking far weaker in certain encounters and seen as worthless (RIP old Summoner, my favorite DPS class for non-raid content). Furthermore, complexity is directly in opposition to balancing because it means you're doing more work on one class to achieve the exact same damage on another class. If they made a certain class very difficult and busy, you'd probably expect that class to do significantly more damage than its simpler equivalent, but if they'd implement such a distinction, I feel like a lot of people would complain that they feel unfairly forced to play the harder class. So overall, they do usually have more complex options (for anything that isn't healers at least, RIP healer mains lmao), but I think that's generally the biggest thing keeping them from implementing much more complex classes. A lot of their changes to classes in the past have been raider oriented, and if you need any proof of that, SCH's changes in 7.0 scream raid design. Their new damage button is on a 120s cd tied to their burst window button, which is completely nonsense design outside of a raiding context. The fact is, job design in XIV is inherently raider oriented, and that's the reason classes are "simple". They're easier to balance and design content for them.

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Homogenize didn't solve the problem.. WAR is the best tank overall damage + tank wise.. Healers play 99% the same with different animations.. DPS.. Picto that's what i want to say..

Creativity of Square enix job design team was only on FFXVI and FFXVI alone!

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Originally Posted by Tunda

why not just have a role that have high skill ceiling?

for example:

Tanks that have high skill ceiling can put higher damage than others but require more skill.

DPS that have high skill ceiling can put higher damage than others but require more skill.

Healer that have high skill ceiling can put higher party support than others but require more skill.

I don't want to see Viper turn into new Dark Knight.

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My guess is that the dev don't want a class to be stick with the ''hard'' tag cause then casual would be ''scared'' to pick said class. That or they don't want the difference between a good viper and a turbo casual viper to be so big that people tell them how to play or things of the like.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Soxxx

A lot of people will say it's the casuals, but I actually feel like simplifying jobs is more oriented toward savage raiders. The fact is, casual players actually will happily play classes of any complexity, because the majority of them are happy to have fun while ignoring half of their buttons. They don't try to play optimally and they don't know exactly how much damage they're actually doing, so the majority of the time, they don't actually know how complex their class even is to begin with and they're willing to put up with far more than someone looking to fully master a given class. This was my experience as a new player and I'm pretty certain it's most people I see in dungeons.

When MMOs homogenize or simplify classes, I feel like it comes down to balancing. The fact is, the raiding community goes ballistic if one class is even slightly weaker, even if the missing damage is ultimately inconsequential. This results in situations where certain classes simply can't have unique or varied burst design, or else they might not line up well and wind up doing far less damage and looking far weaker in certain encounters and seen as worthless (RIP old Summoner, my favorite DPS class for non-raid content). Furthermore, complexity is directly in opposition to balancing because it means you're doing more work on one class to achieve the exact same damage on another class. If they made a certain class very difficult and busy, you'd probably expect that class to do significantly more damage than its simpler equivalent, but if they'd implement such a distinction, I feel like a lot of people would complain that they feel unfairly forced to play the harder class. So overall, they do usually have more complex options (for anything that isn't healers at least, RIP healer mains lmao), but I think that's generally the biggest thing keeping them from implementing much more complex classes. A lot of their changes to classes in the past have been raider oriented, and if you need any proof of that, SCH's changes in 7.0 scream raid design. Their new damage button is on a 120s cd tied to their burst window button, which is completely nonsense design outside of a raiding context. The fact is, job design in XIV is inherently raider oriented, and that's the reason classes are "simple". They're easier to balance and design content for them.

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It's this.