As topic.
No one asked for the simple (aka braindead) designs for the jobs "remade" in ShB/EW. Devs, you're painting yourselves into a corner. At this rate all jobs will only have 4 DPS buttons and do shit damage in 9.0.
I think most players will agree that HW/SB was the peak. All the streamlining has been a mistake.
-
18/09/2022, 15h58TakumiHaradaStop making the jobs easy and nerf them because "they're not complex"
-
18/09/2022, 20h09Reinhardt_AzureheimSo we are gonna ignore some of the good designs Stormblood had for jobs or gave certain jobs much needed flow?Citation:
Envoyé par TakumiHarada
Dark Knight, despite being the DA-spam job, had many other redeeming qualities that could have been fixed by simply increasing the MP cost of Dark Arts and the potency gain (standard 140) by 50%.
Instead we got a mix of Warrior's Beast Gauge and Samurai's Kenki and they called that our job Shadowbringers onward, both resource meters completely decoupled from each other. Other things we lost:- Blood Weapon +10% Haste
- Irregular cooldown alignment of combat actions*
- MP-Blood interplay via TBN (MP -> Blood) and Delirium/Quietus (Blood -> MP)
- Delirium interaction with Bloodweapon/price to extend them, those actions in turn granting more MP + Blood
- More significant MP spending options (Dark Arts -> Abyssal Drain for instance)
- Sole Survivor, which could and should have been expanded upon
- Blood Price, which could have been turned into DRK's version of Unchained to make it less sh**.
* = irregular cooldown table:- Plunge: 30s
- Blood Weapon: 40s
- Salted Earth: 45s
- Carve / Dark Passenger: 60s
- ExtenDelirium: 80s
- Sole Survivor: 120s
DRK was a job that had speed and non-standard flow, which is what made it highly enjoyable over being another 60s / 120s cycle job as we have gotten thanks to Shadowbringers and Endwalker.
I cite not HW DRK as the best version on purpose because it had issues like essentially hogging #1 enmity for parry engine, something PLD optimisation struggled to a degree as well with Shield Swipe. TBN was the answer, and it was as good as it could get. I do miss having more than one viable combo though, Delirium combo finisher was nice.
But what about other jobs than DRK?
Minus the clunky parts which got fixed (mainly Faerie related), Stormblood 4.5 Scholar was arguably the best and most fun iteration of the job - non-standard DoT durations (30s, 24s, 12s for Miasma, Bio II and Miasma II), Bane for dot spreading and active decision making between Broil / Ruin II / Miasma II on single target depending on the situation. There was also Shadow Flare to alternate with Sacred Soil.
WHM also enjoyed having non-standard dot timers and Aero III and certain other jobs had fun things stripped from them. Tornado Kick Monk rotation was one of them - it was basically the best state in 4.5, but got ripped to shreds with the removal of Wind Tackle / addition of Greased Lightning IV - which eventually got shafted altogether. -
19/09/2022, 00h42TakumiHarada
Sorry it was a typo. I meant HW/SB was the peak but I thought it could be implied from the previous paragraph that "No one asked for the simple (aka braindead) designs for the jobs "remade" in ShB/EW.".
HW/SB >>>>>> ShB/EW. -
19/09/2022, 02h15Reinhardt_AzureheimGlad this was just a misunderstanding then, no worries.Citation:
Envoyé par TakumiHarada
-
19/09/2022, 02h29SleepyCococatThis is why you don't make difficulty a rubric of job balancing.Citation:
Envoyé par TakumiHarada
-
19/09/2022, 02h55RansuSB was peak job design. HW was an unbalanced nightmare and I think people really forgot just how bad the balance was back then.Citation:
Envoyé par TakumiHarada
-
19/09/2022, 04h24CKNovel
I agree.
We don't chose our jobs because of difficulty. I don't play MCH because it's easy or GNB because it's hard. I play those jobs because kaboom.
We're not the one making the jobs easier, it's the design team. They can't have the audacity to impose a difficult and punish for the difficulty they chose.
No one asks for easier jobs, but everyone complain the jobs are getting easier. We are only asking for Quality of life and flexibility.
This is a feedback old as Stormblood, it just explodes today because of the last communication from Yoshida. -
19/09/2022, 04h53SilverSkywayI ask for easier jobs. One of my biggest complaints is button bloat. But I'll take QoL fixes too. *looks at Paladin*Citation:
Envoyé par CKNovel
-
19/09/2022, 05h32AiscenceThe problem is that in the past there were hard jobs and easy jobs in the roles: now we have the easy job, the other easy job and the easiest job with one or two exception.Citation:
Envoyé par SilverSkyway
You wanted easy jobs? you had quite a few of them already, which let some harder one for the taste of other people. People that want pet management, dot management, positionals or more strict jobs didnt get anything in return for those jobs becoming a simple "1 2 3 use ogcd on cd and press x times your magic button during burst".
People aren't against easy jobs, they are just sad that their jobs, that had many feedbacks and idea given to make them better while keeping their identity were just turned into another one button macro job that feel so similar to all the others. -
19/09/2022, 07h27Supersnow845It’s not like hard jobs have to have excessive bloat, BLM is arguably the hardest job in the game and probably has the fewest buttons of any non SMN DPSCitation:
Envoyé par SilverSkyway
There is a middle ground between hard and bloated (AST for example) and needing it into the basement like SMN