Samurai: Gave it a go, no longer do I feel enthusiastic

Hi SE and to whom anyone it may concern especially fellow SAM wanderers. I am a long time lurker of the forums and had not made an account until recently, like others, to voice my dissatisfaction with the current state of the job.

I won't reiterate aspects from other experts like job synergy, marginal overtime DPS loss or raiding complexities. Instead what I want to focus on is the feel of playing a samurai to which I love.

The two skills that have changed which made an impact to my experience
- Kaiten
- Tenka Goken

Kaiten
As you know, Kaiten is a core ability we use to enhance our Iaijutsu and 1st Ogi Namikiri (ON), we must always try to save 20 Kenki before using Iaijutsu or ON. For me, Kaiten means something different, it is a meditation phase we go through before sheathing our katana before unleashing a devastating attack. Twirling the katana in the heat of a battle adds a bit of "cool" factor that makes you seem like an expert swords(man/woman).

Since the change, the removal of Kaiten has reduced samurai gameplay to spamming Shinten whenever possible without a care of Kenki management. It dilutes the complexity of the gameplay, and it had gone through simplification in ShB and EW which now makes it hollow to play. Because Shinten costs more then Kaiten you are pressing less buttons overall, however that also means the pace of the gameplay is slower. There are times where I would weave in a Kaiten to prep my next Iaijutsu or ON in between attacks or actions but instead I have this intermittent second pause where I'm staring at my enemy waiting for something to happen.

Tenka Goken
At first I was for the change, but after trying it out I missed the previous iteration for a simple reason, pacing. Similar reasoning to Kaiten, changing Tenka Goken to circular resulted in samurai to be in the center of a group of monsters unleashing their AoE until that group has been eradicated which breeds idleness. It is simply not effective for me to be anywhere else.

Additionally conal Tenka Goken had minor strategy involved, you need to position yourself correctly to hit all the desired targets. In order to do that samurais had to adjust constantly, many may not agree with my sentiments but I welcomed this as it allowed me to circle myself to an advantageous position while I lined up my attack. Lastly its reach was longer than the current iteration there are niche times where you are safe to unleash it without repositioning.

Summary
The feel and flow of the gameplay is what makes samurai the job it is. It can be argued that there are unnecessary actions required to achieve the desired end result, but being consistent and mastery of such complexity are what gives me joy playing samurai.

I hope SE you can reconsider the changes you have made to samurai in the current iteration and restore the fantasy, feel and flow of the job once more.

Yes + yes.

Kaiten ABSOLUTELY needs to be put back, and all impacted adjustments reverted. This point is beyond negotiating.

Tenka Goken, I'll put my vote in revert as well. I wasn't sure about the range, but have the same feeling. There are many trash/adds that does circular aoe which the old tenka goken handles perfectly fine but the new one doesn't. We don't need every job to have the dumb brainless circular AOE. The targeting can be removed tho. It's annoying having the cast interrupted because someone decides to nuke your target.

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Originally Posted by SleeeeeeepySleeeeeeep

Yes + yes.

Kaiten ABSOLUTELY needs to be put back, and all impacted adjustments reverted. This point is beyond negotiating.

Tenka Goken, I'll put my vote in revert as well. I wasn't sure about the range, but have the same feeling. There are many trash/adds that does circular aoe which the old tenka goken handles perfectly fine but the new one doesn't. We don't need every job to have the dumb brainless circular AOE. The targeting can be removed tho. It's annoying having the cast interrupted because someone decides to nuke your target.

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100% agree with the suggestion of removing targeting for cone Tenka Goken. It would be a significant QoL if they implemented it because it meant that even if your primary target is eliminated you are still able to hit the 2nd or n+ targets.

My voice is with yours, sword-sibling.

SAM's varied AoE profile is what I like about it. If it was all circular then that would be way less fun.

My biggest problem with the circle instead of cone is that it's not intuitive. It makes some sense for the tank, since a few mobs circle around them anyway. I get why they changed the warrior for that, though I miss that being varied, too. But for melee, it means we have to go in, stand on the tank, & hit the same circle. A cone meant positioning reasonably. If you position your circle opposite the tank, you can easily miss the mob's outer layer. A cone handles that so much better. (I hate the line aoes, however, since the mobs manage to move JUST as I hit it)

Personally, I like the circle AoE instead of the cone, since I don’t need to waste a few seconds to get into position after already being in the middle of the group of enemies constantly spinning like a beyblade. But I do miss the feel of it, feeling like a wave from a powerful slash from an anime than just another spinning attack. I will say it does feel like the range is a bit too short though.

Other than that, I fully agree. It doesn’t help that they nerfed all of he finisher moves without lowering cooldowns. Enough so that I notice a HUGE decrease in its damage output compared to before overall. It also doesn’t help that all of the finisher slashes (the names escapes me at the moment, but I mean both the slashes for when you get all the symbols as well as the two minute long cooldown one) feels exactly the same to one another, with much of their impact missing.

A good example would be in a lvl 90 dungeon. Before my Samurai’s 2 min cooldown finisher (again, sorry, can’t remember the name) would do 60k damage per slash when Kaiten was activated and both slashes crit, meaning a total of 120k total. That was truly an amazing feeling, leaving you satisfied until the next time.

Now? I’ve seen it range from between 20k per slash to 40k (depending on party members and the buffs they give), same with the slash attack after getting all three slashes, only that one usually hangs around 15k to 20k.

Overall, they really messed the class up to where even classes with lower ranked gear does more damage.

I’ve read and talked to people who say that the damage decrease overall is only 3%, but I can’t argue with the damage difference I’m personally seeing on my Samurai. And comparing it to Reaper now who easily does over 20k with a lot of his attacks, why would I want to go back to Samurai when it is now inferior in almost every way? Even classes who don’t do as much damage as other Dps clases would be better because they have utility and buffs, such as Red Mage being able to shield and Rez people.

Keep in mind I used to be a Samurai main and have been focusing on Samurai since I got it last year (I started the game in late May in 2021, so I don’t know how it played before then), so I know that class very well and can notice the changes easily. So it’s pretty jarring still to being forced to play as Reaper now.

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Originally Posted by Ceridwen

My biggest problem with the circle instead of cone is that it's not intuitive. It makes some sense for the tank, since a few mobs circle around them anyway. I get why they changed the warrior for that, though I miss that being varied, too. But for melee, it means we have to go in, stand on the tank, & hit the same circle. A cone meant positioning reasonably.

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^ This, exactly how I feel about it. It just doesn't feel great, it feels like I am lazy now. I have to put in no effort. I found a post that explained it very in depth
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...e-s-why./page3

Though " cjbeagle " had a very good summary of what has been happening.

6.0 pre-Fuko: ▲ O ▲ O [Kaiten]▲

6.0 post-Fuko: O O O O [Kaiten]▲

6.1 Kaiten Removal: O O O O O

Basically it has become more simplistic over time... less and less and less intriguing. No Kenki management, no complexity, no need to learn positioning. And sure its " Optimized ", but at the rate of how they are reworking everything to be this simplistic? it becomes bland... not exciting... lazy... boring...

I loved darting in and out, aiming my Fuga, going back in Oka and Mangetsu, aim my Guren, Kaiten my Tenka Goken, lets not forget my Kyuten here and there, Ogi Namikiri Cone and my Shoha II and back and forth. It felt complex, it felt like I had to earn and aim my damage it felt engaging.


Now its just Circle Circle Circle Circle Guren Circle Ogi Namikiri Circle Circle Circle Circle Circle Circle Circle Circle Circle etc etc.... sooo boring