DNC Analysis for 6.0/6.05

So Dancer is one of my favorite Final Fantasy jobs in the series. For me, there's something about jobs like Dancer, Bard, Gambler, etc. that fight with entertaining methods has always just been interesting for me, and I was really excited to see it in Shadowbringers and main the job.

As a whole, I really enjoyed Dancer and felt like it had a lot of room to grow, so how well does it accomplish this transitioning into Endwalker?

The Changes
Not much changed with Dancer's existing tools in functionality, but there are a couple things that I think are worth noting:
1. DNC's proc'ed weaponskills now share a resource between single target and AoE. Cascade, for example, now procs both Reverse Cascade and Rising Windmill and you choose one or the other. These procs now last 30 seconds instead of 20.
2. Weaponskills now grant Esprit making Saber Dance more consistent.
3. As mentioned in one of the live letters, there were some damage formula changes that altered a lot of potencies for all jobs, but the damage potency on both Standard and Technical Step was dropped pretty significantly.
4. Improvisation was reworked into a channeled regen with a follow up max HP% barrier based on how long the ability was channeled for.

The first of these changes was likely an attempt to address probably Dancer's biggest performance issue in ShB. During burst windows, you could generate so much Esprit from your party and thus were obligated to use so many Saber Dances on your GCDs that you could time out one or some of your proc'ed weaponskills and lose out on them. You technically were getting more damage, but it never felt great to see that Rising Windmill go unused knowing you could've gotten an extra feather perhaps. Now, you have half as many procs to use and they last longer.

The consistent stream of Esprit is a really nice touch that makes Saber Dance a more prominent tool less dependent on luck to obtain. The new Improvisation is nothing special really, but a nice change from what it used to be. I feel like it's awkward that it's still a channel and don't really understand why DNC needs to have that, but now it feels like it has a much clearer use as a form of utility that you can double weave between GCDs.

The changes to the procs was the thing I was most skeptical about going into things as it halves the effectiveness of Flourish as an action before going into 81-90 content. I get the idea here, but simply increasing the duration of the procs to 30 seconds was probably enough to eliminate that issue, and I'm a little sad that Rising Windmill and Bloodshower are no longer always relevant buttons.

This is a bit of a tangent, but I kind of hate this departmentalized separation of single target and AoE tools--that so many jobs have handfuls of buttons that are largely just for trash mobs and rarely anything else. I much prefer when we have useful tools that just happen to be AoE.

Having said that, this change also gives DNC a touch of fluidity when transitioning from single target to AoE or vice versa. If your Windmill ends up killing one of the two remaining dungeon trash, you can follow up with Reverse Cascade for a bit of extra damage, though this is an incredibly small QoL aspect.

As a whole, though, I feel like DNC has become slightly less fun at level 80 and under, which is really sad for me because I love a lot of level 80 content, and the less satisfying Flourish does feel noticeable for me. I also really liked that the old Flourish made me think about my position on the battlefield more, since I'd need to be close to the enemy for my AoE procs to land. This is rectified after level 80, but it's still a bit of a shame.

What's New?
Dancer received several new actions starting at level 80 and going up to 90 and they are as follows:
1. At level 80, Improvised Finish is that AoE max HP % barrier. It is not set to the hotbar and replaces Improvisation while it's being used and must be activated before Improvisation is canceled.
2. At level 82, Tilana, 1.5 second GCD that combos out of Technical Step/Finish. It is not set to the hotbar and replaces Technical Step for a single use. It reapplies Standard Step buffs to yourself and your Dance Partner
3. At level 86, Fan Dance IV, a point-blank cone AoE OGCD that combos after Flourish is used. It is set as a different action on the hotbar.
4. At level 90, Starfall Dance, a powerful line AoE GCD that combos after Devilment is used. It is set as a different action on the hotbar.

Can you pick up on the reoccurring theme here? Everything new can only be used after a specific other action has been taken and cannot be used in any other way.

Essentially, Tilana, Fan Dance IV, and Starfall Dance act as new elements to spice up the DNC's burst window, giving us more different actions to work with each with their own unique eccentricities. Tilana is a short GCD, Fan Dance IV is a cone AoE, and Starfall Dance is a line AoE. These elements make the burst feel a little more exciting and restore some of that focus on your position on the battlefield that was lost with Rising Windmill and Bloodshower.

Overview
I'd say that as a whole, DNC is still largely around the same place it was in terms of its playstyle. It's got a fun burst at level 90, but its transitional periods are still pretty slow and uneventful as we focus on saving resources for the next burst phase. The added Esprit generation on weaponskills does help this very slightly.

While I don't think DNC is necessarily in a bad place as far as gameplay is concerned (we can talk about damage output later), there are a few things that I find very odd.

First, all of these new tools being restricted the way they are feels a little needless, and it's odd that Improvised Finish and Tilana replace the buttons they combo from, but Fan Dance IV and Starfall Dance don't. DNC is not suffering from a bloat issue, but it's just a little odd.

As for how the new actions flow, it feels like we moved around the furniture only to recreate the same layout at a different angle, if that makes sense. We took away half of Flourish's procs and any feathers they may have generated for 3 new actions to perform only during your burst phase (with the exception of Fan Dance IV which gets a second use halfway to your next burst phase). I'm not really opposed to this on concept, but I don't like that burst engagement was taken out of level 80 only to push it even farther up the level tree.

Something I didn't bring up yet that could be argued as an issue for DNC is how dull the job can be at low levels. The bulk of what made DNC fun and entertaining at higher levels wasn't introduced until level 70 and up, and now that situation has only been exacerbated, even if only slightly.

One other small note is that I have absolutely no idea why they made Tilana reapply your Standard Step buff. I mean don't get me wrong, this isn't a bad thing or creating some kind of problem, but it feels superfluous.

Lastly, there is the hot topic of damage output. Even with buffs included, DNC seems alarmingly behind the rest of the DPS at the moment and really could've used even just some emergency potency buffs like what DRG got.

Future Suggestions
I imagine Dancer will likely not see any sort of substantial gameplay changes throughout EW as it doesn't need to be reworked or anything. Potency upgrades seem to be the most significant thing right now, perhaps restoring some power back into Standard Step and Technical Step? Having said that, there are a few small things I think would be nice to see over the course of the expansion, and a few key thoughts for where to go beyond that.

1. I'd like to see DNC get a bit of that SMN/MNK treatment in regards to introducing some of its key buttons at an earlier level. Some ideas:
- Add in Sword Dance at level 30, a weaker version of Saber Dance and introduce Esprit generation much earlier. If the potency were something like 300, the same as Fountainfall, it would still be useful while not really adding that much extra damage.
- Lower Flourish down to level 50. Since it lost half its procs and the feather potential from those procs, Flourish really doesn't feel like it belongs up at level 72 still. if need be, you could also increase the cooldown to 90 or 120 seconds and have that lower down to 60 at 72 with a trait.
- Lower Fan Dance IV down to 72 since it's basically the replacement of the lost two procs from Flourish.

2. Perhaps Starfall Dance's damage could be lowered, but gains a 50% chance to proc off Saber Dance as well as being granted by Devilment?

3. This one's more of a long-term thing, but with Tilana granting the effects of Standard Step again, I feel like there's a clear opportunity to one day add in an a different 2-Step action that shares a recast timer with Standard Step, but its effect is different and does not grant the effects of Standard Step. The buff currently lasts 60 seconds, and Standard Step is every 30 seconds. We have plenty of room to alternate between Standard and some other kind of dance, and then use Tilana to give us 2 back-to-back alternate dances.

Final Thoughts
I really enjoy DNC and think it's had a really solid foundation for a kit, but has just been wanting just a bit more oomph in places. I'm a little disappointed that Endwalker didn't really 'level up' DNC's gameplay that much outside of cleaning up the burst phase and making it a little more active, and still think it suffers from being so heavily back-loaded in levels.

I definitely feel like it can improve a lot over the course of EW, damage numbers included, and I hope the future after EW tries expanding on DNC's gameplay moreso than we did this time around.

I would trade any support tools to be just a pure damage DNC.

But that's just me.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

I would trade any support tools to be just a pure damage DNC.

But that's just me.

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We already have MCH for that. I'd argue dancer's utility is pretty heavily ingrained in its identity, and if we were to change that, we'd be losing a very unique role in exchange for something we already have in several jobs that have little-to-no utility.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

We already have MCH for that. I'd argue dancer's utility is pretty heavily ingrained in its identity, and if we were to change that, we'd be losing a very unique role in exchange for something we already have in several jobs that have little-to-no utility.

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As I said. That's just me. I don't find MCH aesthetically pleasing or even it's gameplay very fun.

Also when I play DNC I don't think about, how am I helping the party. It barely registers in my mind. I'm always thinking, am I in range for my Dances to not miss. How should I get the most out of my dance buffs and oGCD buffs to get the most out of my damage.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

1. At level 80, Improvised Finish is that AoE max HP % barrier. It is not set to the hotbar and replaces Improvisation while it's being used and must be activated before Improvisation is canceled.
2. At level 82, Tilana, 1.5 second GCD that combos out of Technical Step/Finish. It is not set to the hotbar and replaces Technical Step for a single use. It reapplies Standard Step buffs to yourself and your Dance Partner
3. At level 86, Fan Dance IV, a point-blank cone AoE OGCD that combos after Flourish is used. It is set as a different action on the hotbar.
4. At level 90, Starfall Dance, a powerful line AoE GCD that combos after Devilment is used. It is set as a different action on the hotbar.

Can you pick up on the reoccurring theme here? Everything new can only be used after a specific other action has been taken and cannot be used in any other way.

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Can't agree more, that this is beyond lazy design.
With Tilana, I wonder if there was some original intent for swapping dance partners during fight, which was ultimately scrapped.

FDIV and Starfall Dance absolutely should just replace flourish and devilment when you press them. Immediate (read: do it today) fixes to DNC's pathetic dps (getting beat by over 10% by Bard. Bard's personal dps is leagues higher and it's party buff dps is almost identical) include 1) making starfall dance actually gain some form of buff from devilment, seeing as how it literally is only usable during devilment and is consuming a GCD during devilment where another GCD ability could actually gain the benefit of devilment, but you are forced to use SFD during this window, 2) boost standard finish potency by a LOT. Standard finish is so weak that it's not worth using over basic weaponskills on 3 targets. It makes up a large portion of our damage, sure, but its potency compared to other job's skills of similar cooldowns is not good. 3) Rip improvisation out and add some other level 80 ability that does damage. Improv is so pathetically weak that it likely does less healing over the course of an encounter than your passive regeneration does. It is almost never used as designed (15 second channel for a 10% hp shield), because fights aren't designed so that it can be used. An oGCD 100 potency HoT isn't "bad" on paper, but it doesn't do anything in actual gameplay simply because of its design. For it to be the lvl 80 capstone ability of the expansion that brought the job into the game is just disappointing. Imagine if redmage's lvl 70 ability in Stormblood were Vercure.

I think upping the chance to get Flourishing Flow / Symmetry and of getting a Foretold Feather from 50% to 75% would also do wonders for the neutral gameplay between burst windows.

Dancer does not have enough utility, nor is utility even *generally* useful enough in FFXIV encounter design, to warrant it's damage output being so low. I don't know if SE intentionally is taxing the job so hard for having what, curing waltz?, or if they simply ran out of time with the physical potency / weapon rebalancing going into EW, and just missed the mark so hard. 6.1 really, really, really needs to be the patch of the dancer, because as fun and pleasing as the job is to play and look at, it has never actually been a very good performer. It can clear, and if you're a solid player you're not weighing your team down, but that shouldn't be the taste left in your mouth.

I like the concept of Improvisation but the execution is just bad, really really bad. The time/risk vs reward just isn't there. I have to stand still for 12s just to give a minor regen and barrier to a small AoE area. Not going to happen in a fight.

Maybe if it gave the party a dps buff, maybe if it added Fourfold Feathers, maybe if it charged up Espirit. Maybe...but no, it does none of those things and is a really dead on arrival.

Tillana, I get it. It give you a nice 1 2 combo so I'm fine with that.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

I like the concept of Improvisation but the execution is just bad, really really bad. The time/risk vs reward just isn't there. I have to stand still for 12s just to give a minor regen and barrier to a small AoE area. Not going to happen in a fight.

Maybe if it gave the party a dps buff, maybe if it added Fourfold Feathers, maybe if it charged up Espirit. Maybe...but no, it does none of those things and is a really dead on arrival.

Tillana, I get it. It give you a nice 1 2 combo so I'm fine with that.

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You can double weave Improvisation without halting your GCD and get the regen and a 5% max HP barrier. It's not a massive amount of utility, but that little extra could really come in handy in a tight situation, so the channel isn't required.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

You can double weave Improvisation without halting your GCD and get the regen and a 5% max HP barrier. It's not a massive amount of utility, but that little extra could really come in handy in a tight situation, so the channel isn't required.

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Yea, but the point of a channel ability is to balance risk with reward. It you gave this to say a BLM, the mage would standstill charging the spell for more potency at the risk of damage and requiring healer to keep him alive. The reward of that effort would be a powerful DPS spell. Along that grain DNC is a DPS so it's main focus is DPS, be it pure dps skills or a dps buff to other players.

Passively Improvisation should grant either Regen or Barrier in that AoE area to help other and help keep the DNC alive during charging. The charged Improve could be used to improve Devilment, add Featherfold, or charge epsirit.
On the flip side you could have the AoE zone grant players a Damage buff while DNC charges up Improve Regen/Barrier.

My point is it needs a better reward for the risk/time of standstill with none personal dps output. Basically DPS lose vs Healing benefit isn't going to work, at least in my opinion.

Yeah, Dancer has it bad right now. 10% behind in aDPS, and completely crushed in rDPS. What's the ballpark Dancer would need to bump in aDPS to even out with bard in rDPS?