(Spoilers of Endwalker ahoy!) So umm... I have question about Loporrits

Potential spoilers here! Everyone who hasn't played fully gone? Yes? Ok then...

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So I have a question. As we learn from Hermes in Elpis, apparently there are two kinds of 'lifeforms'. Regulars things, like people, animals, and the like, and arcane things, like golems and the like. Living things have souls, but such arcane entities apparently don't have souls and are not quite living beings. (Something like this anyways)

So, then we have the Loporrits. By all appearances, they seem to be a created Race created by Hydaelyn to prepare the moon and the like for the people to retreat to. Living things with souls and all that.

But then we get this descriptions from the golden saucer card about them. It reads as follows:

"A race of creatures resembling rabbits and living in Mare Lamentorum. In truth, they are arcane entities assigned by Hydaelyn to crew the star's great ark─the moon. For centuries have they labored in secret, exchanging clandestine communications with the Sharlayans and patiently preparing for the coming of the Final Days."

So according to this, they're arcane beings, bereft of soul and not actually living things. So then why do they all seem to have feelings their own wants and the like. They need to eat and sleep just like living things do. They can also die it seems, according to some of the dialogue they speak. This seems to say that they are in fact actual lifeforms.

So which is it? Are they really alive or not? Are they like Alpha in the Omega story arc? Am I missing something? I'm so confused!

(Someone wants me to make a thread about making them playable, but I can hardly argue for them if they're not even alive to begin with can I? Any help on the matter would be great!)

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Originally Posted by ApprenticeSmithy

Potential spoilers here! Everyone who hasn't played fully gone? Yes? Ok then...

***

So I have a question. As we learn from Hermes in Elpis, apparently there are two kinds of 'lifeforms'. Regulars things, like people, animals, and the like, and arcane things, like golems and the like. Living things have souls, but such arcane entities apparently don't have souls and are not quite living beings. (Something like this anyways)

So, then we have the Loporrits. By all appearances, they seem to be a created Race created by Hydaelyn to prepare the moon and the like for the people to retreat to. Living things with souls and all that.

But then we get this descriptions from the golden saucer card about them. It reads as follows:

"A race of creatures resembling rabbits and living in Mare Lamentorum. In truth, they are arcane entities assigned by Hydaelyn to crew the star's great ark─the moon. For centuries have they labored in secret, exchanging clandestine communications with the Sharlayans and patiently preparing for the coming of the Final Days."

So according to this, they're arcane beings, bereft of soul and not actually living things. So then why do they all seem to have feelings their own wants and the like. They need to eat and sleep just like living things do. They can also die it seems, according to some of the dialogue they speak. This seems to say that they are in fact actual lifeforms.

So which is it? Are they really alive or not? Are they like Alpha in the Omega story arc? Am I missing something? I'm so confused!

(Someone wants me to make a thread about making them playable, but I can hardly argue for them if they're not even alive to begin with can I? Any help on the matter would be great!)

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Part of the point of Endwalker is that the Ancients' qualia for life was wrong. That's what got Hermes so upset.

I'd say it's possible they are arcane entities that have evolved, more or less. Their carrots are made from aether, most likely, that attempts to imitate real food while still mostly leaning on the side of extreme aetherial properties.

Alpha is a good comparison, I would say. A created "arcane entity" being which doesn't technically need to follow the "laws of creation" (which I interpret to mean "laws of nature" like needing sustenance and such), but does so anyway, simply from the way it was created. And in time and given a bit of luck, the Loporrits could also gain souls, like Alpha did.

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

Alpha is a good comparison, I would say. A created "arcane entity" being which doesn't technically need to follow the "laws of creation" (which I interpret to mean "laws of nature" like needing sustenance and such), but does so anyway, simply from the way it was created. And in time and given a bit of luck, the Loporrits could also gain souls, like Alpha did.

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And of course, with the Loporrits having been alive for somewhere over ten thousand years, and us not really knowing how one gets a soul, it's fairly plausible that there were a few that had some. And we might not be able to tell who.

I bet it's Puddingway, though.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

And of course, with the Loporrits having been alive for somewhere over ten thousand years, and us not really knowing how one gets a soul, it's fairly plausible that there were a few that had some. And we might not be able to tell who.

I bet it's Puddingway, though.

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Puddingway being stuffed full of his soul food may be a thing, yes.

I got the impression the Loporrits haven't actually been awake for very long cumulatively. They come out now and again for maintenance purposes (on the Moon), and in the past couple of hundred years they've been in indirect contact with the Sharlayan Forum, but most of the time they remain in suspended stasis.

If this was pre-Endwalker, I'd have speculated idly that part of getting a soul would be discovering determination, as in clinging onto hope that this time what might have been a futile endeavor would now succeed. This could be anything as simple as "I want to live", as with most sentient but non-sapient beings, or something along the lines of Alpha pushing forward with trying to free us from Omega's trap despite being completely powerless. However, with the Endwalker revelations of what possession of a soul actually means in terms of categorization, I haven't really examined that hypothesis for newfound holes.

In any case, Alpha acts sapient and with free will, but didn't actually receive a soul until the very last part of the Omega questline, at which point we can understand them via the Echo, but no other aspect of their personality changed (apart from the obvious character growth everyone had). So the Loporrits might be the same: they are certainly sapient, but they might not be en-souled until some arbitrary criteria is met.

With all the Ancients resembling Hyurs, it's likely that every single other race was 'created' in some fashion. We even know how the Ixal came to be from the Fractal Continuum (and, now, that it was almost certainly Amon who did it.)

My guess is that Hydaelyn created the form of the Loporrits, but like everyone else they received souls from the Lifestream.

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Originally Posted by Jennah

With all the Ancients resembling Hyurs, it's likely that every single other race was 'created' in some fashion. We even know how the Ixal came to be from the Fractal Continuum (and, now, that it was almost certainly Amon who did it.)

My guess is that Hydaelyn created the form of the Loporrits, but like everyone else they received souls from the Lifestream.

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All the Ancients resemble Hyur heads on Elezen bodies. When I first saw Hythlodaeus my first response was "NECC". So apart from the pointy ears, it's just as accurate to say all the Ancients resemble Elezen.

In fact, since Garleans are majority custom heads on Elezen bodies, it could also be accurate to say all the Ancients resemble Garleans.

Also I headcanon that Hydaelyn created the Loporrits in cute rabbit forms because she likes cute rabbits.

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

Also I headcanon that Hydaelyn created the Loporrits in cute rabbit forms because she likes cute rabbits.

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Perhaps you've already done the sidequest "Very Familiar Carrots", but for those who haven't...

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Originally Posted by Rhodopis

I heard the entire tale─how a rabbit familiar was on the scene. Mistress Venat was said to be researching one such familiar, or that's the story, anyway. Perhaps the one you came across is related to that business?

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:D

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Originally Posted by ApprenticeSmithy

So according to this, they're arcane beings, bereft of soul and not actually living things. So then why do they all seem to have feelings their own wants and the like. They need to eat and sleep just like living things do. They can also die it seems, according to some of the dialogue they speak. This seems to say that they are in fact actual lifeforms.

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Urianger (when we see the Loporrits for the first time): " 'Tis a rather curious crew She hath chosen. Their endearing forms intended to ease the passengers' hearts, perhaps."

Likely they were designed to mimic living creatures for that reason. Cold, emotionless arcane entities (even if cute in appearance) would have added to feelings of hopelessness and despair for refugees embarking on a long journey with an unknown destination.

Are they living creatures as the men and beasts of Etheirys would be? Probably not. Are they alive? Define what "alive" is.

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Originally Posted by LemonJuice

Perhaps you've already done the sidequest "Very Familiar Carrots", but for those who haven't...



:D

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That sounds like then that the Loporrits are basically like familiars who have gained/been imbued with a soul, like what the Ancients assumed the WoL to be. And based on the Ancients reactions to the WoL, while it is uncommon for familiars to have souls, it not impossible/unheard of.