I've played the healer role in a ton of MMO's. WoW, DAoC, SWTOR, and Lord of the Rings Online...every one of those games boasts healers with a huge array of spells and abilities that cause and create meaningful dps. What I don't get is how developers in this game specifically have devolved into assuming the people who play healers are so utterly dumb they can't figure out in their heads when they need to heal versus cast another damage spell. It's absolutely nonsensical.
IF what they're saying is true, then people right now would STILL be struggling. Where are all these smooth brains thinking, "Durr hurr...one more 'Broil' cast, uh huh--yup," while the tank is hovering around 20% and 2 group members are dead?
They simply don't exist.
Instead what you have are a very small minority of people who shit on healers (who are likely trying) when they die in a video game.
No, it's important to close by stating that the decision to take away fun and meaningful gameplay options, because some players simply aren't very good, is asinine and I hope that those who work on healer development will realize this and add some flair and variety back into our jobs!
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09-25-2021, 05:23 AMTruenIt's time to kill the argument that DPS abilities keep healers from healing.
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09-25-2021, 06:07 AMAnhra
The Dev's as well as a good part of the Community which is more on the casual side when it comes to MMO's, genuinely believe that the ultimate form and state of a Healer, is that of a HP refilling battery. This ideology is even more present in PvP content (extremely outdated content, through) where Healers even take the form of a actual Tank since all they do is Healing and maybe fling a Dot once in a while.
And to make matters worse, from what i can tell they still don't seem to get it even with the coming of Endwalker, since they now divide Healers into what they call "shield Healer" and "pure Healer". And i doubt those will have a meaningful Kit when it comes to offensive Spells.
Scholar back in Stormblood, was almost a properly designed Healer when it came down to the amount of Dps Spells. if they added into that kit a few more Spells (not raw damaging abilities, but something akin to DoTs or debuffs which actually fit the Job), it would have been a push into the right direction but alas, all Squeenix understood was the constant moaning about everyone Joking that SCH was just a green dps compared to WHM and AST who in comparison, performed rather poorly on the DPS side, so instead of buffing those two, SCH simply got nerfed into what we know today and the rest, is history.
My biggest hope is, that SCH at the very least, inherits SMN's removed DoT themed abilities which will be removed from the latter, but honestly, i doubt anything will change. -
09-25-2021, 07:12 AMlulunami
SCH in 2.0 ARR had significantly more DPS spells/abilities than it currently has in Shadowbringers.
SCH at start of 2.0 ARR
- Ruin, Ruin II for nukes.
- Energy Drain for MP and nuke.
- Bio, Bio II, Miasma, Miasma II, Aero, and Thunder for DoTs.
- Bane and Blizzard II for AoE.
- 100 percent uptime for Shadowflare.
- Strong Fairy potency.
SCH at start of 5.0 Shadowbringers
- Broil, Biolysis, Art of War
- No Energy Drain
- Nerfed Fairy potency.
There is a reason why healers say SCH has been completely gutted and shell of itself. The dev team are extremely incompetent. -
09-25-2021, 07:59 AMGemina
What do you mean kill it? I see healers tunnel visioning and leaving peeps on the floor all the time while they continue to DPS. Many tanks mains will tell you about where the healer just let them die. They used their cool downs properly, even went into invuln, and they just drop; then the healer will SC raise them when the mob starts eating their face.
I'm all on board with making healing fun and engaging. However, some arguments about their DPS is sorely misplaced, and I also think just giving them some additional DPS buttons to press won't solve anything. We're talking 3.x gameplay mam, which was years ago. The game has evolved past those days, and healers need actual mechanics with how their job plays; not go from 1,1,1,1 to 1,2,3,4. All this does for healers is give them more animations to look at while doing the same damage they are doing now.
No, no. I've seen too many cool reworks happen to MCH, PLD, SMN, and NIN to find just going back to 3.x or 4.x SCH anywhere near acceptable. -
09-25-2021, 08:13 AMKolsykolQuote:
Originally Posted by lulunami
Not gonna lie I totally forgot about this.
Energy Drain is such a forgettable ability imo it really needs an updated animation or something it barely has any impact. -
09-25-2021, 08:32 AMMindiori
To say they are incompetent is underselling it. Its a laughing stock compared to the days of old. Surely, a new progressive crowd seem to enjoy spamming one button in the pursuit of nothing meaningful aside carpel tunnel syndrome - but lets not kid ourselves outside of that. People aren't playing for the engaging jobs. It's gutted to the point Diablo 2 could give SCH a run for its money.
Rather than waste your time with diatribe however; just construct yourself a bit of theory craft.
If a healer starts the game with an aim to improve, learn and be more than it was when it started. Then you examine SCH. Is that even possible with its joke of a kit? I had more out the gate at level 5 or so in past MMO's. What are we aiming for today? Perhaps no DPS tools at all? Just auto-attack for healers eventually? Thats fun is it? Really?
And thats the issue. People are comparative by nature. Nothing needs be the same - but if one has many, the other none; its hardly rocket science now is it. -
09-25-2021, 08:38 AMBooPooSage seems to have everything you are suggesting and I'm definitely maining it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anhra
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09-25-2021, 09:56 AMSpookychief
healing is a lot more fun and a lot more original than this forum though js
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09-25-2021, 10:03 AMssunny2008Have you ever considered that ppl let tanks die, because their focus is only like 10% on the game? If i do anything out of savage content, the first thing i do is to cut my resolution from 3840x1080 to 1920x1080. My grouptask overlaps my skills so far, so im sometimes not even able to keep my GCD´s rolling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemina
As next i´m opening my browser to start netflix or amazon and check out a new film or series. Then i start to spam my damage ablities on any class, no matter which class i´m actually playing, it´s always the same and i´m normally the first. Sprint - aoe spam - sprint - aoe spam - sprint - boss pull, repeat.
It´s just boring, so boring that i´m not focused on my rotation pretty much or yes, that i completely forget that i´m healer this time and the tank died to the first adds. The games content is dull and the game never evolved, it got dumbdowned and the content is copy & paste with new graphics /animations.
I´ve played some other MMORPG´s too and i´ve never seen it happen and it never happened to me, that a tank or DPS died because i wasn´t able to heal them within 30s. Those games has better content and a way better class design.
Tanks has less defs there and a boss hits hard. Have you ever seen a boss hitting hard in this game? Have you ever seen a tank using all his defs in a bossfight? Savage tankbuster are getting invuled, in dungeons you spam your defs to pull as much adds as possible until you reach the next wall.
So what should a healer heal? The aoe which drops every 30s? Even if we talk about bad players, do they need heal? No... they most die instand, you rezz them, they die again, etc... So you stay there and spam 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,1,1,1,1,1....
If the classes would be atleast somehow appealing and the content more challenging things would look way different. And i highly doubt that anyone, not matter if Tank, DPS or Heal - main, who is complaining about DPS skills or so, just wants to turn 1111 into 1234. We want something to do, something which is worth to actually use all our skills. We want more than just a Dot + 1. Not a strict rotation, but stuff we can play around, which grand some buffs / debuffs, which might buffs our healing skills or grant us stacks for playing well instead of being infight for 30s. We want to make use of Esuna, we want to play around ressources, we want to be a real healer. And between all those hardhitters across the whole group, we want to do damage with different spells for different circumstances. Even in savage healers use an aoe heal every 30s, then we´re going on with 1,1,1,1,.... while moving to a safespot. The whole combat and content-design has become a fat joke.
(And btw while i play multiple classes in the endgame, i would consider myself a tankmain. And i can tell you, that the most tanks have no clue how to play and survive properly, when to use which cooldown or even to kill a pack of adds without any healing. Especially as WAR you can easily full heal yourself even in stuff like the current E12s. Or a DRK can ignore multiple mechanic-debuffs with blackest night, or.... it´s laughable. Even my better half as WHM main wants me to play tank mostly for her 99er log.) -
09-25-2021, 11:06 AMGeminaYou're still accountable, and no one is forcing you play a healer in braindead content. If you were tanking and your healer just let you die, and their excuse was, "Sorry, healing is so boring and I got caught up in Netflix." what would be your reaction? While you might be more understanding, I'm pretty sure you would still know that your healer is at fault for your KO.Quote:
Originally Posted by ssunny2008
Another thing I will point out is that the tank and DPS members in your group are most definitely not looking at Netflix while in a duty, and while they have less reason to be than a bored to tears healer spamming one button, it is just good etiquette and shows respect giving them the same courtesy. And yes, I am aware that negligent people exist playing all roles in the game. Their lack of attentiveness and care does not pardon your own.