I was just in an Orbonne Monastery. I joined at the midway point - right at T.G. Cid - and it was pretty apparent that the alliance had had a significant amount of trouble already (40 minutes had elapsed). Before even pulling - yet despite being aware that they'd already wiped a few times on Cid - I asked "does anyone have any questions about mechanics?" Oh, no no, I was told - they had only wiped because their previous tank had AFKed. Everyone knew what they were doing.
No. They didn't.
We wiped consecutively because people wouldn't stand in the 3-per zones. People were literally standing right next to the circles on both occasions and not entering them. After explaining the mechanic prior to the second pull, and still seeing people in the two groups I had eyes on refusing to step into the circles, I queued a vote abandon. It failed.
So here's wherein the problem lies. I feel like I should be able to leave that run at that point without incurring a penalty. It was very, very obvious to me that the people involved weren't getting it (and it wasn't just obvious to me - like 10 people dropped raid the moment the vote abandon failed). If people want to slam their heads against that wall, no judgment: it was just plain to me that another wipe was coming; the people who weren't doing mechanics were the same ones still there.
But I shouldn't have to choose between joining them in futility or wasting 30 minutes for walking away; the solo queue for Orbonne is long enough as it is, and, what's more, I didn't just join and quit - I put in two good faith efforts to kill Cid (I was, frankly, downright upbeat when I got in there - Cid is my favorite boss of the four), and when it didn't happen, I wanted to leave. I should be entitled to do that WITHOUT a penalty, and without a confrontation.
As things stood, I made them kick me (what were the alternatives? Get angry as we fail again and again? Drop group and sit there twiddling my thumbs for 30 minutes? Nuts to that). But I shouldn't be placed in that kind of position to require passive-aggressiveness to get out of there in the first place. There didn't need to be any confrontation or hostility on either side (as it was, I just said nothing and didn't move once they started screaming at me) - that hostility was a direct result of game restrictions saying to me "yeah, sorry, you're stuck here because MWAHAHAHAHA." I don't give a crap about the individual players involved; I am sure most of them will learn the content eventually. But FFXIV should not put me in a position of demanding that I punish myself in one way or another because of the actions of others.
*Edit* And just to be clear: I'm complaining about the fact that the game seeks to penalize players for making a judgment call about whether or not a group can complete content; that FFXIV tells you, directly, that all choices suck. I'm not complaining about the group: I'm just explaining the quandary by presenting an example.
Situations where you're left with no good option
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08-12-2021, 12:50 PMTeraRamisSituations where you're left with no good option
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08-12-2021, 01:01 PMKageTokage
Reminds me of the time I spent 20+ minutes wiping on Thornmarch EX but the group refused to vote abandon despite the fact that they had made basically no tangible progress due to people failing to grasp the basic principle that you're supposed to DPS the moogles evenly.
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08-12-2021, 01:05 PMBaconBits
Hold up, I thought you could leave without being penalized if you join an in progress duty.
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08-12-2021, 01:06 PMAuridaOh, you could have. They changed it a bit back, but only the first person to leave any individual duty gets a penalty for it. If someone else leaves first, or someone gets kicked, or if you join in prog, you can just dip out of the duty no-frills, even if the party or alliance are already filled back up.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeraRamis
Remember: real winners quit -
08-12-2021, 01:08 PMTeraRamisThe game acts like any individual decision to leave without a word is somehow worthy of punishment - that you should be reprimanded for walking out on a group of strangers, rather than, in what will doubtlessly be interpreted as increasingly patronizing 'advice' (because that's how people are) explaining the mechanics they have repeatedly refused to complete. Only a group decision - the electronic equivalent of herding cats - is blessedly free of penalty. But you can't make that call yourself - no, you must do it as a collective. Otherwise? You're wrong. You're a quitter.Quote:
Originally Posted by KageTokage
It's ridiculous. I seek no hostile engagements with my fellow players - I don't want to nanny them; I don't want to boss them. I, frankly, generally don't want to speak to them, outside some polite chit-chat. But when you keep people who are failing crammed in the same cage, that's what you're asking for: toxicity. -
08-12-2021, 01:10 PMTeraRamisGood to know. Thank you. I will pocket that nugget for future use.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurida
Just to be clear: I really wanted to be there. I queued specifically for Orbonne. I want to collect the tanking set, and I'm in a queue for it again as we type. -
08-12-2021, 04:38 PMTaleraRistain
As someone else mentioned, you weren't stuck there. You did have options you didn't know about to leave.
As for the 30 minute penalty in general, it's there to put some weight behind the decision to leave. People still dip on something just because they don't like it, but we would definitely see an increase if people could just leave the duty without any penalty at all. And there is an aspect there that it's what you signed up for. You joined the random matchmaking system the game provides where you can't really choose what you're going to get. The game doesn't trap you there. It does give you the option to leave. It just doesn't let you make that decision frivolously. -
08-12-2021, 07:24 PMRinhi
I'm glad most of my orbonne runs are blessed with sprouts that grasp the mechanics after one wipe at most :D