The Echo and the Ascians

this might have been covered elsewhere, in this case I am sorry for asking again.

with recent revelations about the ascians and the other fraction around Venat I remember Elidibus saying to Minfilia that if they would understand the echo there would be no difference between her and and Ascian.

what does that mean? the echo doesn't seem to be the same among it's "users". would someone with the echo be able to jump bodies if that person knew how to fully utilize it?

what else could Elidibus mean?

is the echo maybe just the tempering of Hydaelyn?

(recently playing the story again and a lot of questions come up...)

The echo is a pale shade of the ancients creation magicks. Everyone can access the echo if they "remember" who they once were. The star shower triggers that remembrance, "the end of Amaurot". Its not related to or bestowed by hydaelyn.

Just a theory, but given what's said about hydaelyn's current state leads me to think that the echo simply makes you aware of her calling, which is essentially nothing more than a tempering signal on repeat.
The story has more than once suggested we are tempered by hydaelyn.

The Echo is effectively a reawakening of the Ancients' power in individuals who have inherited a fragment of their soul.

It is not tempering by Hydaelyn; and while there are hints that suggest the PC may be tempered by her, if they are it's not much more than a placebo as far as we are aware.

The echo isnt hydaelyns tempering, its just that the first thing those who gain the echo hear is her call. She constantly keeps calling but only those with the echo can hear it.
The echo is just the power people used to have, however It isnt creation magic, creation magic is what the amaurotians called their magic technique, creation magic is actually arcanima.

Edit.
You may think of it as thus, The amaurotians were immortal, their constructs could not tempt them and they had a lot of personal aether. In comparison a normal person is mortal, he hasnt got alot of aether and he is tempted by the mere presence of a primal. With the echo we have excelled on everything we do

ok. but what does elidibus mean by "if you understand the echo you are just like ascians"?

does it simply refer to the fact that they remember their past?

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Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

ok. but what does elidibus mean by "if you understand the echo you are just like ascians"?

does it simply refer to the fact that they remember their past?

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What he specifically says is that "we would be of one mind;" or, more colloquially, "we'd think the same thing." With what we now know he's probably suggesting we'd be anti-Hydaelyn and pro-Zodiark if we knew the truths of the world; obviously some players feel that way, but in-universe nobody seems to share their sentiment.

While Echo users do have a fragment of their Ancient soul's power (reawakened by an implicit memory), they don't actually consciously recall the Final Days.

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Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

ok. but what does elidibus mean by "if you understand the echo you are just like ascians"?

does it simply refer to the fact that they remember their past?

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We dont know yet but we can theorise. Its called the echo , we can assume that it is called thus cause of the voice of hydaelyn echoing when someone obtains it. But then it begs questions if its something the amaurotians already had and they also call it the echo are they possibly refering to something else. Could it be that they refer with it a memory every single ascian remembers, it doesnt quite fit. What if there is another voice that calls but we are too weak to hear, Hydaleyn bestowes to her chosen ones the power to look into the past , but what does zodiark bestows. Maybe they refer to the memories of the real us, imagine how tormenting it must be to see people that once were friends suddenly be complete strangers, or at worst enemies.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

What he specifically says is that "we would be of one mind;" or, more colloquially, "we'd think the same thing." With what we now know he's probably suggesting we'd be anti-Hydaelyn and pro-Zodiark if we knew the truths of the world; obviously some players feel that way, but in-universe nobody seems to share their sentiment.

While Echo users do have a fragment of their Ancient soul's power (reawakened by an implicit memory), they don't actually consciously recall the Final Days.

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i didn't recall the english text so I went with german which is more in line with what I wrote. going by the english text this makes more sense

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Originally Posted by HeulGDarian

Edit.
You may think of it as thus, The amaurotians were immortal, their constructs could not tempt them and they had a lot of personal aether. In comparison a normal person is mortal, he hasnt got alot of aether and he is tempted by the mere presence of a primal. With the echo we have excelled on everything we do

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Actually, the Amaurotians (and all Ancients) were not immortal, the shades of the phantom Amaurot and Hades's story on the Lodestone that was part of the 'Tales From the Shadows' make that explicitly clear, that the Ancients had a finite life span, and that they procreated and gave birth, grew as children into adults and eventually died at the end of their lives, their souls returning to the planet (which they called the 'Underworld') just like the current races.

What was different though is they had far, far greater personal wellsprings of aether, which is what powered their creation magic to a level far exceeding the greatest magic capable in the present day, and that even a newborn baby was capable of wielding such power inately, a scary thought.

They only became immortal beings of pure aether after Zodiark was summoned and 'rewrote the laws of nature', which a handful of Ancients became the Ascians. But back before the Terminus and the Sundering, they most definetely were mortal beings, who were born, lived and died like we do. Their lifespans were probably far greater, but still were finite.

Ill check it out again then though i know for sure that the dead thing was not bestowed by zodiark. Its what the warriors of dakness did earlier when they came to the source. It has something to do with the crystals of power not zodiark specificly.