Hi SE, can we get rid of the current card system in next expansion, pls?

I started to play since ARR, and was a sch main in 2.0-3.0, an AST main in 4.0, and afk for two months since 5.0.

But I have recently returned to FFXIV upon the release of patch 5.1, mainly for the reason of MSQ, plus the FFlogs finally showing ASTs in pair with the other two healers in terms of rdps.

But the more I play AST, the more I feel uncomfortable with the new card system. I feel I am over-occupied with handing out each card individually. And every time when the cooldown for Sleeve Draw is ready, it creates a hot mess by adding a ton of work in dancing between the mechanics, healing and dpsing. On top of that, the buffs only last 15 secs which is only half of previous makes it feel extremely unsatisfying considering the more work we throw into it than before.

I don't know if the design of the card system was actually tested on consoles because it feels particularly clunky for those players who are not using mouse and keyboard. We have to click multiple times to move along the party list to choose the melee/ranged target and hand out the card by another click. It is not a fun job and doesn't feel a game at all. :mad:

The whole MSQ of Shawdowbringer is literally amazing and you guys did a fantastic job. The two new jobs are fun to play as well which I have leveled both to 80. But AST still remains my favorite job among all, now I am just not feeling comfortable playing it, particularly learning a new fight with it.

I understand it is unrealistic for a dramatic change to happen since the patch is already launched officially, but you must have known how AST badly falls behind in player base compared to other two healers and I cannot tell you how much I am sick of this vicious new card system, so please get rid of it in the next expansion. :(

I wouldn't be shocked if the current card system is either scrapped next expansion or massively reworked considering the overwhelming negative reception towards it.

My issue with the whole rework in 5.0 is that the card system they implemented is nothing more than a illusion of choice. There is no difference in the current card system to for example a buff ability such as divination other than the enforced role RNG.

The reason many of us loved AST was because we had different buffs we could supply the party with: We had defense, attack, haste, refresh, crit +, regain. Sure balance fishing was a bit hard to discourage, but they simply could have buffed the other cards to make them more on par with balance, or if necessary nerf the balance card.

SE: We've received complaints that people want the Time Manipulation Aspect of AST and hate the card system

Also SE: In 6.0, we will be removing the card system and allow you to extend the duration of your shields and regens again.

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Originally Posted by Brightshadow

My issue with the whole rework in 5.0 is that the card system they implemented is nothing more than a illusion of choice. There is no difference in the current card system to for example a buff ability such as divination other than the enforced role RNG.

The reason many of us loved AST was because we had different buffs we could supply the party with: We had defense, attack, haste, refresh, crit +, regain. Sure balance fishing was a bit hard to discourage, but they simply could have buffed the other cards to make them more on par with balance, or if necessary nerf the balance card.

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Agreed, but even if you were to give meaningful choices as per a balanced version of the former card system, you'd still have people complaining because simply Undrawing all cards that don't bring you towards Expanded Balance>Arrow>Spear would no longer be a competitive strategy, requiring that players actually target an ideal allied recipient, thus running into the same controller issues.

It's one of those areas where generally functional but barebone controller support is more obviously not cutting it (though anyone who's had to nearly solo-heal a 24-man due to other healers' deaths knows well already it's not the only area by any stretch). It's at least a good reason to push for those control improvements found in other games, be it target scan, stacked actions, smart targeting, or whatever else.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Agreed, but even if you were to give meaningful choices as per a balanced version of the former card system, you'd still have people complaining because simply Undrawing all cards that don't bring you towards Expanded Balance>Arrow>Spear would no longer be a competitive strategy, requiring that players actually target an ideal allied recipient, thus running into the same controller issues.

It's one of those areas where generally functional but barebone controller support is more obviously not cutting it (though anyone who's had to nearly solo-heal a 24-man due to other healers' deaths knows well already it's not the only area by any stretch). It's at least a good reason to push for those control improvements found in other games, be it target scan, stacked actions, smart targeting, or whatever else.

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You need to understand that AST even with the "Barebones" card system in place, it doesn't fit it's lore or feel right. So lets say I'll give you 5 different abilities, I'll name them all different names and etc but the outcome and effect are all the same. Pretty unsatisfying right? You had parse runners whine about RNG to the Ast card mechanic which was dumb of SE to listen to them. I personally can do without the new upgrades AST received lately. This whole card system has never made me more frustrated nor depressed playing it than it has now. It lost what made it feel special than all other classes.

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Originally Posted by MitsukiKimura

You need to understand that AST even with the "Barebones" card system in place, it doesn't fit it's lore or feel right. So lets say I'll give you 5 different abilities, I'll name them all different names and etc but the outcome and effect are all the same. Pretty unsatisfying right? You had parse runners whine about RNG to the Ast card mechanic which was dumb of SE to listen to them. I personally can do without the new upgrades AST received lately. This whole card system has never made me more frustrated nor depressed playing it than it has now. It lost what made it feel special than all other classes.

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"Barebone" was the word immediately before "controller support". Why shift its reference to cards as if my topic (and thereby point) were something entirely different?

And I fully agree that the current system is lackluster and thematically out of touch. I just hate when people claim its issues stem from its control-ability when that issue is merely a symptom of the same issues we've always had, and would already have been obvious to us if we just allowed anything more interesting in our healing than mere GCD-minimization. Why? Because no card system short of complete illusion of choice with maximum waste (% of actions you can technically take but are non-viable) would then satisfy.

We've merely swapped from one form of illusion (due to poor balancing), which happened had easier controls due to fewer competitive interactions (especially in 8-man content), to another where the task of balancing was preemptively forfeited in place of homogeneous effects, and which now happens to require more control because the single-target actions are finally not only viable but necessary.

To be clear, then -- what I want is something far more alike to old system or at least card effects (but now better balanced against each other), but likely still with Seals to act as a further nudge towards balance and variety. RR and Spread would be reworked if kept so that you need never Undraw a card just because it'd waste your present RR effect or your (overpowered) card effect. That means keeping single-target card options as viable choices in 8-man content (at least between more optimal draws), though, which means we need better controller support.

Honestly, I prefered the old card system. You didn't have to fish for 3 seals. I have it more than enough that I just can't get the 3rd seal, in the old system I would've just said "ohwell" and give another card, which wouldn't be a huge loss imo

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Agreed, but even if you were to give meaningful choices as per a balanced version of the former card system, you'd still have people complaining because simply Undrawing all cards that don't bring you towards Expanded Balance>Arrow>Spear would no longer be a competitive strategy, requiring that players actually target an ideal allied recipient, thus running into the same controller issues.

It's one of those areas where generally functional but barebone controller support is more obviously not cutting it (though anyone who's had to nearly solo-heal a 24-man due to other healers' deaths knows well already it's not the only area by any stretch). It's at least a good reason to push for those control improvements found in other games, be it target scan, stacked actions, smart targeting, or whatever else.

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I think the only way around this short of a massive rework on healing design as a whole would be taking the old system but splitting into two card slots: Offense and Defense. Making it so defensive cards like Bole and Ewer aren't competing with Balance or Spear would make their use actually valued since you aren't sacrificing an AoE damage buff to give your co-healer more MP.

Why wait? I want at least the old cards back much sooner than that.
I know realistically, we probably will have to wait though.

I like the idea of splitting the cards into an offensive and defensive slot, but struggle to think of a way that could be designed that isn't weird and clunky. Maybe if they came from separate pools.