4 Man Savage Content

What are your thoughts on a 4 player content similar to savage/extreme?

I think it would be nice to have other difficult content that isn't just 8 man.

Things i would like to see
Savage Dungeon
Extreme Trial
Savage Raid

Doesnt need to be alot, maybe just 1 of each released the same time the regular savage/extreme content is released (even patches, odd patches, etc)

This would be nice for smaller FC's, easier to work around 4 peoples schedules for statics instead of 8 people.

Im not sure what the rewards could be, obviously not the same rewards in the current 8 man content.

I would prefer content for a larger number of people, like alliance raid or Baldesion Arsenal, but I don't mind light party content either.

They kinda did that with Rathalos EX, and it was pretty fun.

I was just talking about this with someone a few days ago, I think it'd be a fantastic idea. They could definitely take some of the mechanics ideas they use in savage content and make those work with four players. I'd also enjoy seeing a boss rush mode added into this game. Perhaps after beating a raid tier you unlock boss rush where you go through all four fights of the tier back-to-back ultimate style. Could even turn off rezzing to make you do all four flawlessly with no breaks. There's so many ideas for things they can do, hopefully they continue to improve on their systems.

I beat myself in the French part of the lodestone for this feature !! Savage or extreme dungeon yes this game really need it ! I don’ understand why it seems difficult for SE to make that

Yoshida himself few years ago said that they are working on it and since there is no news

It can be the « real FC event ». I mean, in a lot of FC ive been, there is the same problem : 1/3 of players are not log since 6 months, 1/3 are casual and the last players (3 or 4 players) are not enough to go in a savage 8 man mode and are too « powerfull » for normal content, between this there is nothing except extremes primals

If it's not savage why they can’t do extremes dungeons linked to the trial? for exemple we take The next primal, it will give a 465 weapon, and you make a extreme/savage dungeon with no weeklies that give 465 ilevel stuff, or minions, or glamours i dont know there is a lot of things to do. Or they can take dungeons who already exist like aurum vale and make it savage (The minimum ilevel feature is not enough)

Sorry for my english but really i want this feature ive been waiting for this for so long, rathalos ex was a good beginning with the raid finder revival !

Sounds good, however I don't think it's possible to make them as hard as 8-man content since the difficulty of 8 man content usually involves doing a dance with 7 other people and fewer the people easier the dance is, like just think about the harder meachanics there is and now scale them to involve only 4 people, they are much easier that way. Think about tsunami from newest raid tier, if there is only 4 people with debuffs it's much easier since it requires much less coordination and fewer people can screw it up.

That being said there definitely could be much harder 4-people content as currently everything involving only 4 people is super easy, they could take the road of having everything hitting harder and bosses not being scripted and having you adapting to different attacks on the fly and bringing the difficulty up with that, rather than relying in team coordination bringing the difficulty like it does now in savage raids. I remember the only time in game's history when 4-people content felt difficult and it was when pharos sirius came out so it definitely can be done with high damage output and chaotic and fast mechanics rather than team coordination.

I like the idea of hard dungeon content like WoW is trying to do, and Guild Wars (in Fractals) and ESO have done...

But these other MMOs also show why Yoshi has said he won’t donit.

Balance.

What group size do you balance groups for?

GW2 currently balances for raids. So Fractals are either super easy or impossible until you figure out some way to gimp them...
ESO balances for... I am not sure, I need to progress more. But I think it may have WoW’s flaw.

WoW balances for... everything. And that means all it gets bland and homogenized...

FFXIV balances for 8 players. This means they can intentionally make sone jobs weaker or stronger but meant to be paired. And they could do that for 4 instead. But you cannot do it for both unless you remove even more job diversity than we lost with 5.0...

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

They kinda did that with Rathalos EX, and it was pretty fun.

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Yeah this pretty much came to mind when thinking of 4man savage. Honestly, game could use more of it. Not to mention more difficulty broadly.

The way 14 works, it would be hell to balance.

Having 4 person parties locked to Heal, Tank, 2 DPS instead of 5 or 6 people that can have a 2nd healer or 2nd tank, or both, or a dedicated CC, or someone who can tank or heal effectively as needed means you're heavily limited to the kinds of content you can use.

Rathalos worked (sort of) but you cant really get away with "heres something you cant tank and can only heal for half the fight" more than once.

The more you cut down player spots in a group, the less you can do mechanically.

We already see this in raids. Let me know when we get to a raid tier where multiple bosses arent fought on a platform in space who have at least one ability that can knock you off the platform, cause thats been a thing for the last couple expansions.


Harder 4 man content in 14, with the way current skill lineups work, would end up being more outgoing damage and bigger HP pools, which is exactly how NOT to handle that kind of content, because its a boring band-aid based around players not having the ability to use class mechanics to deal with challenges.

3rd Addon, 3rd time it looks like same formula regarding trials and raids. I don't think they care really, they have highest sub count than ever so that will stop any idea that proposes to change that "working system".
Introducing dungeon achievements like WoW did, to beat bosses under certain conditions or just to have a fast clear time, there are lots of opportunities for replay value and fun. They have to make dungeons like baldesion arsenal, perm death + cc actually useful and needed + interactive environment etc... I really dislike rushing through all the new dungeons and just doing big pulls, just because its the most efficient way nowadays.

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Originally Posted by Barraind

would end up being more outgoing damage and bigger HP pools, which is exactly how NOT to handle that kind of content

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Yeah they have to introduce mechanics that might deal more damage than the party dps on bosses. It would still be a benefit if you have high party dps, but at least you will kill the boss by playing the mechanics perfectly too. Similar to Unending Coil Ultimate, where you get the phoenix buff that makes it easier to clear if you don't die. But this is just one variant of many.
It could also be a dot that has to stack up on a boss, until it is stacked so high that he will die very fast. Or its a mechanic like in shinryu where you try to attack his tail to damage him for a set HP value, a boss could have more than 1 target area (his limbs or other structures etc.). There is just lots what they could do to reduce dependency on damage, which I think isn't an ultimately bad thing.