Healers can't outdamage competent tanks

Had a feeling this was true - or more than a feeling, since we could inspect the logs of their absurd padding - but now we have the numbers to back it up.

https://i.imgur.com/obABQo2.png

Essentially, without extreme padding, no healer... not even white mage... will be outdamaging a competent tank.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Had a feeling this was true - or more than a feeling, since we could inspect the logs of their absurd padding - but now we have the numbers to back it up.

https://i.imgur.com/obABQo2.png

Essentially, without extreme padding, no healer... not even white mage... will be outdamaging a competent tank.

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Should they?

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Should they?

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I don't have a horse in that race, I just thought it was worth a mention with all the "OMG WHM doing more damage than tanks!" that was going around.

In other news, the sky is blue.

Seriously, guys. It was obvious from the beginning that once the real stuff hits, healing requirements go up and the padding goes to the targets that actually matter (read, DPS), healers just won't be able to outdamage tanks anymore. Anyone who believed otherwise deluded themselves.

Bit premature, don't you think?

Healer optimization depends on the entire party, tank optimization is predominantly individual. Top WHM is 200 DPS behind bottom tank. Which do you think gets a bigger increase once the entire party is BIS?

It's closer than it's ever been or could ever be in Stormblood. Besides, you don't need WHM to outdamage tanks to realise that healer damage has reached ridiculous levels. The difference between WHM and tanks nowdays is comparable to the difference between two tanks in Stormblood.

We'll see how well this ages in a few weeks.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Essentially, without extreme padding, no healer... not even white mage... will be outdamaging a competent tank.

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Whether you were intentionally trying to mislead people or not, this is just untrue. A white mage doesn't need padding to out damage a tank. All they need for the healing requirement to be low enough so that they do not have to gcd heal - something that isn't exactly a rare occurrence in shadowbringers. See here.

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings...spec=WhiteMage
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings...ps&class=Tanks

If you think this is because of padding, it isn't. Note that the list is sorted by raid dps and not personal dps. A white mage purely doing their dps rotation properly without having to gcd heal will do more damage than even the best of tanks. I don't see how this can be disputed at all.

This was already obvious, Titania and Innocence had like 0 healing requirements.
Not gonna lie, I kinda wish it was possible for a WHM to do tank level dmg, but this is fine. Healers are a lot closer in raid contribution.

Now we wait till SE keeps buffing AST and SCH only until everything is ruined.

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Originally Posted by Lagomorph

Whether you were intentionally trying to mislead people or not, this is just untrue. A white mage doesn't need padding to out damage a tank. All they need for the healing requirement to be low enough so that they do not have to gcd heal - something that isn't exactly a rare occurrence in shadowbringers. See here.

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings...spec=WhiteMage
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings...ps&class=Tanks

If you think this is because of padding, it isn't. Note that the list is sorted by raid dps and not personal dps. A white mage purely doing their dps rotation properly without having to gcd heal will do more damage than even the best of tanks. I don't see how this can be disputed at all.

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I think TC worded it badly, and referred to savage there, excluding the super-easy Primals. So in other words, actual battles that don't see healers DPS fulltime, but juggle DPS and healing. That's also what I am talking about when I say that WHMs (and all healers, to an extent, though not as much) DPS contribution crumbles when healing is required. AST and SCH are much closer to WHM in that chart also because of rDPS contribution if my assumption that this is overall contribution and not only personal DPS is right; if I'm wrong, we are already in trouble now.

Those "Padded" numbers also happened on tanks too. (all jobs get padded)
As others said, the real reason is because the content got harder, not due to padding.

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Originally Posted by MaraD_

Those "Padded" numbers also happened on tanks too. (all jobs get padded)
As others said, the real reason is because the content got harder, not due to padding.

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In addition, if the reference was also made towards Savage—it’s Week 1. These tanks and healers are currently progging the fights and focusing on doing whatever needs to be done to clear them, not optimizing them. I don’t know how it will stand either way when the time comes that raiders start actively optimizing, but we should probably wait a bit longer than 3 days after the tier dropped to make claims regarding personal damage output. These are all preliminary at this point, with no BiS and wearing entry-level gear.

EDIT: This is also a graph without much context—such as percentiles. It could be 95th, or it could be 10th. This doesn’t really negate my earlier point of this being Week 1 of a Savage tier, but one shouldn’t present numbers with this little context to try and prove a point.