I'm not sure why it wasn't programmed this way to begin with, but right now Trust runs are ridiculously slow, even when you as a tank mass pull and AoE as much as you can. Your trust partners never use aoe attacks and only use single target rotations, making dungeon pulls extremely sluggish. I even tried going as a bursty DPS to see if I could AoE monsters down myself, but it turns out Thancred pulls very slowly and is programmed to take one pull at a time, when he clearly can handle more considering how ridiculously strong urianger and alphinaud are at healing lol.
I average 30 minutes to clear a dungeon with trust, which is way, waaaay too long for me to even think of leveling these guys up. Please make them use AoEs, it's dumb that they don't.
Edit: Might as well quickly write this down before someone comes in and complain that it would make Trust too strong: It's dungeons, dungeons are already the easiest content, and there's already a penalty of getting LESS gear when playing with Trust.
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07-13-2019, 06:05 PMBoodenTrust AI should use AoEs when there's 3 or more monsters attacking.
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07-13-2019, 06:12 PMKaitoAsaha
The fact that they reduced the chest rewards should be enough. In no way would I want for npcs to fully become the norm and take over as the main means by which we do dungeons, but here you have a good thing going with the Trust System. If the reason that they use aoes is as weak as I've heard that it is then I cannot agree with this decision.
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07-13-2019, 06:43 PMBoodenI'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Even if Trust party members actually used AoEs, making Trust dungeon run faster, it would still be much slower than a regular 4 player party simply because Trust members completely stand still when they have to do mechanics, and basically don't attack during that time, while regular players would, and regular players would also do more damage overall by doing better rotations. Trust would definitely not become the norm just because they are allowed to use AoEs.Quote:
Originally Posted by KaitoAsaha
Trust AI not using AoEs just make dungeons unnecessary long, 30 minutes when doing your fastest where a half decent 4 player party can do the dungeon in 20. Ten minutes is huge when you realize you have to do the same dungeons over and over to level up 3 out of 6 trust party members once. -
07-13-2019, 07:01 PMHasrat
Haven't run new content/trusts yet, but consider also the time saved not waiting in queue, mainly for dps. I would assume leveling trusts as dps is the optimal option, as otherwise you'd be leaving tanks or healers on the bench. So. Runs might take longer individually. But, back to back, you're probably still saving time. (as long as you don't factor in time waiting for queue as time you could be doing other open world stuff)
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07-13-2019, 07:15 PMBoodenThat would be almost alright if we're only talking about Trust during MSQ. Almost because I still don't see why they shouldn't be programmed to use AoEs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
You don't know this since you haven't done new content, but post MSQ resets your trust party members' levels to 71, and if you want to run any higher level dungeon on an alt class that isn't 80, or wanted to run one of the MSQ dungeons with different trust party members to see how they interacted between each other, well tough luck, you have to level your party members back up, three out of six at a time. They require a looooot of exp, making it a terrible experience to level them up because the runs take so long. -
07-13-2019, 07:54 PMKurando
It's quite possible that the Scions have specific actions in their toolkits, so just because Thancred is a GNB it doesn't mean he has access to all the actions like we the player would have if we were playing that job. Y'shtola has quite a few aoes but those are part of her rotation, everyone else just focuses on taking down one target at a time. As tedious as Trusts are (after MSQ), we were warned that these runs would take longer than using the Duty Finder so it's not intended to be a replacement of a team with actual players. I don't think the Squadrons use any or many aoes either and they are inferior to Trusts, but the AI had come a long way so maybe in 6.0 they'll use aoes but for now doesn't seem to be a big deal.
(Challenge Log entries offering bonus exp to your trusts for doing X number of runs could be a nice little thing though....). -
07-13-2019, 08:22 PMEphryos
I find going in as a dps with the trust feels pretty fast. You can run ahead and pull the extra mobs and as soon as you're close to Thancred he will grab them off you. If you get too far away the trust npcs will also teleport to you which is helpful although at times Thancred will immediately try to run back to any mobs he was fighting. But for the most part you can pull wall to wall and aoe things down with your dps and it goes pretty quick. I think the only dungeon Thancred ever died for me pulling wall to wall was Mt. Gulg.
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07-13-2019, 11:25 PMFrejyaAthenes
I agree. Or at least give us a Gambit system to adjust them.
Lemme put it this way: it takes 7 runs of the Switch to get these guys to Lv 72. That is a lot of Switch just to be halfway to doing another dungeon especially if your teammates won't make it easier on you.
Also, let Ryne LB the boss. She never seems to for me. -
07-14-2019, 10:15 PMKaitoAsahaI was saying that I love the system but also hate how long it takes. Their lack of aoes I'm hoping is just a thing they haven't gotten to and not a matter of them deterring us from mainly using this is what I'm hoping isn't the cause here. I don't mind the grinding though, that's perfectly fine in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Booden