Provoke now grants additional aggro.

They took long enough.

With shirk and new provoke now, there is no need to the off tank leave the tank stance anymore.

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Originally Posted by Inuk9

They took long enough.

With shirk and new provoke now, there is no need to the off tank leave the tank stance anymore.

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There's no point for them to BE in it, either, because all it boosts is threat.

There's no defensive bonus, no skills tied behind it... if the offtank jumps into tank stance, then they're achieving nothing if they're intelligent, and being a pest if they're an idiot.

While this is definitely very welcome, I do wonder if that just means it'll come down to whoever can dps higher or provide the higher burst to keep aggro. More than likely still gonna need the swaps to turn off their stance and etc just to be safe.

Don't worry, you'll still get every tank in the duty fighting for aggro no matter who pulled or even said they'd MT. People never want to be MT until someone else is. Then they spend more time fighting each other (and no one getting adds) than the actual fight itself.

24 man is gonna be hell with tank jugglers

I was never really bothered with Provoke not adding enmity, but I have to admit this will reduce the number of issues when new players spam Provoke because they often assume it's our only, or main, aggro tool. I've lost count of how many Paladins pull using this skill. The loss of enmity combos on the other hand, that kind of stings. Unless the enmity generation from Iron Will is so overpowered that nothing short of divine intervention will pull enemies away, I don't see how this benefits us at all. If Iron Will *is* that powerful, it only raises further balance concerns, because it means that Tanks don't even have to put in any real effort.

Enmity combos allowed us to balance out which enemies we needed more aggro on, so we can focus on landing our big enmity skills, like Halone, on them. It's a measure of skill that shouldn't have been removed in my opinion. With the additional removal of Flash, we're now more limited in options to mete out AoE aggression, which makes me wonder if and when combos will ever be used. If Iron Will is too weak, we'll be spamming our only AoE skill in every encounter outside of boss battles. If Iron Will is too strong, the job gets boringly stale.

I'm just not seeing how they can balance this properly.

Considering I could pull aggro on bosses as a WAR in Deliverance when the MT was in Defiance, clearly bad tanks needed a lot of help. People thought if they just stance danced they'd be everyone's favourite party member, but they would just lose out to OTs that were better at MT in their OT stance.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

If Iron Will is too weak, we'll be spamming our only AoE skill in every encounter outside of boss battles. If Iron Will is too strong, the job gets boringly stale.

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With TP removed, I would hazard a guess that there's effectively no reason not to be spamming your AoE skills during big pulls.

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Originally Posted by Inuk9

They took long enough.

With shirk and new provoke now, there is no need to the off tank leave the tank stance anymore.

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Was with you till that last part...why would you even want that to be a thing? Offtanks in tank stance was terrible before, not it'll just be completely useless and possibly spin mobs or get you a surprise tankbuster while your healers think someone else is tanking.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Considering I could pull aggro on bosses as a WAR in Deliverance when the MT was in Defiance, clearly bad tanks needed a lot of help. People thought if they just stance danced they'd be everyone's favourite party member, but they would just lose out to OTs that were better at MT in their OT stance.

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To be fair, whenever I lose aggro in Tankstance to Offstance, it's normally because I'm an iLevel 50 PLD going against a level 70 WAR, against Ifrit(Hard) where that doesn't matter.