Disappointment of Shoha/Feedback. Samurai Lv80 Skill.

[Edit] Shoha is bad just like I and others thought, not only is this skill Weak; only a 500 potency skill for 15 seconds downtime

This skill is very clunky and basically makes it to where we're only going to be using it only once or twice at full power.


If you don't know, to use this skill, you have to use meditate which is on a 60sec CD and depending how long you're in meditate it gives you stacks up to 5.

Let me explain why.

I was a samurai through out all of SB and I also Raided as a samurai in every tier.
There not many chances you can get a full tick of meditate.
You only ever get a chance to get a full 5 tick of meditate only Once or twice in a Savage Raid fight and about the same in a EX Primal.

However there are times you can get a lot of, say about two ticks of meditate but its not enough DPS to really be worth according to the skill Potency.
Its not enough Damage for how this skill works and many samurai's agree.

I'm going to give you how many times you're able to get a full amount of Meditate in Each "Alpha" Savage Fight.(From what I can remember feel free to correct)

Os9-Only once after you destroy the orb

Os10-Twice. When he jumps when Add phase starts and when he lands after the add phase. (Though I think you actually only get about 2 ticks of meditate..can't remember been awhile)

Os11-Twice,when he runs away and you have fight the T.V and when he's charging his Raid Wide Attack. (Though I think the first time you actually only get 2 or 3 ticks)

Os12 M&F- Once
Os12 Final- None

I'm going to also Add the EX Primals for the people that don't raid.(Not going to Add Susano and Lakshimi because I have no memory of that fight due to not doing it since 4.0!) And again, only Full stacks.

Shinryu- Once

Byakko- Once

Tsukuyomi- Twice (However the first one you're gonna use shota on an add ALSO, you need a PLD to use cover on you so you don't get stun by the phase change.)

Suzaku- Twice? (I do remember you can use it right before phase change however, the first one there is no target because dance phase and the second meditate comes just before she is about to appear which I can't remember if its a full 5 ticks, think its only 1 tick)

Seiryu- Twice (But you're not going to be using on a boss, because the first one is for Adds and the second time is right before a phase change which is over 30secs long and I think its only 3 ticks)

Innocence- Once

Titania- Twice

So as you can see, you're only going to be doing this skill once at most, twice at best at full power

Asking my peers in the balance discord most agree this skill is not good and want a change and also some idea's from the Forums.

What we suggest is a few things for how shoha can be used.

1.Make it a normal oGCD.
Simple, This skill is VERY visually pleasing and just want to use it as much as possible.

2.Let us gain 1 Stack off a Iaijutsu.
Very interesting Idea off a lot my peers in balance discord.

3.Gain a Stack off of a finisher combo

4.Make it be a new Finisher off Kesha, Gekko and Yukikaze.

5.Make it a finisher off just Yukikaze.

6.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by van_arn

if anything make it combo off of Seigan so you have some weird triggered ogcd combo chain.

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7.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daralii

My personal suggestion would be decoupling Seigan from Third Eye, giving it an appropriate cooldown, and having it build stacks. If nothing else it'd make a very niche skill and what looks to be another very niche skill actually useful.

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8.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Every successful use of Seigan or Merciful Eye provides a stack of some sort. We can accumulate three stacks, which have Seigan's full potency for each use or half for Merciful Eye. Upon reaching three stacks, you become Shoha Ready (think Assassinate) which not only unlocks Shoha but adds an additional 220/110 potency. To break it down...

1 Seigan/Merciful Eye = 220/110
2 Seigan/Merciful Eye = 440/220
3 Seigan/Merciful Eye = 660/330
Shoha ready puts the potency at 880/440, making that Shoha's actual potency

Potencies could still be adjusted but I feel like rewarding successful Third Eye proccing is a far better mechanic as it encourages people to actually pay attention to it whereas now Seigan as always been something of an afterthought.

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9.

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Originally Posted by gintokiygo

The skill looks amazing but the frequency that it'll be used makes me rather disappointed. My suggestion for how it can be changed is to allow Iaijutsu to give stacks of meditation make the stacks permanent and allow us to use the skill whenever same potencies listed as current Shoha.

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10.

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Originally Posted by Janhyua

instead of meditating to get stack, we midare to get stack and the stack stay with us throughout the entire fight until we use it this way it will make Shoha more useable as a OGCD

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Overall, most samurai want this skill changed. This skill is very underwhelming and we don't want this skill to push through in the final build as it currently is.

Everything else with samurai is great, they just basically built upon what makes samurai a samurai.

If you agree, Please Like this Post.

Yoshi-P and the team won't see this if we don't speak up. Share this with you fellow samurai's and heck even if you're not a samurai.
Your support is very much appreciated.

I don't know about other people but getting that as a lvl 80 skill is super underwhelming, sure looks amazing but the trigger for the skill makes it lame

Now you all know how I felt and still feel about Tornado Kick HAHAHAHAH.

On topic tho I do think the idea is weird. You only use meditate at certain points in the fight which is mostly down time and that's only for about 1-3 ticks of Meditate. So just having a skill to use right as a boss comes back up just seems... wasteful? Pointless? I don't know. Maybe it'll be good in the game.

I'm actually more worried about not being able to "eat" Sens in between trash pulls and boss transitions / jump phases.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

Now you all know how I felt and still feel about Tornado Kick HAHAHAHAH.

On topic tho I do think the idea is weird. You only use meditate at certain points in the fight which is mostly down time and that's only for about 1-3 ticks of Meditate. So just having a skill to use right as a boss comes back up just seems... wasteful? Pointless? I don't know. Maybe it'll be good in the game.

I'm actually more worried about not being able to "eat" Sens in between trash pulls and boss transitions / jump phases.

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It's 500 potency at max stacks. I think it's safe to assume that it won't be good in the game as it is.

It's a great idea that has room for improvement. That being said It's still free damage that's tied to meditate, it also allows the option to use meditate more aggressively. Obviously with it's current iteration you aren't going to be getting max stacks for a 500 potency Soha unless it's a invuln. transmission phase since channeling it during a encounter with low standby phases would be a massive dps loss. Hopefully they work on improving it so its not such a niche ability.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Selova

It's a great idea that has room for improvement. That being said It's still free damage that's tied to meditate, it also allows the option to use meditate more aggressively. Obviously with it's current iteration you aren't going to be getting max stacks for a 500 potency Soha unless it's a invuln. transmission phase since channeling it during a encounter with low standby phases would be a massive dps loss. Hopefully they work on improving it so its not such a niche ability.

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There's an opener that involves weaving in a tick of Meditation currently, but that's a 50 potency Shoha and 10 Kenki. I don't know if it'll even be possible with the extra speed from the Shifu/Jinpu trait. The biggest problem with changing the concept behind it is doing so in a way that doesn't just create a Chakra clone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daralii

There's an opener that involves weaving in a tick of Meditation currently, but that's a 50 potency Shoha and 10 Kenki. I don't know if it'll even be possible with the extra speed from the Shifu/Jinpu trait. The biggest problem with changing the concept behind it is doing so in a way that doesn't just create a Chakra clone.

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Instead of a Chakra clone they could make it a combo off of Midare.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Selova

It's a great idea that has room for improvement. That being said It's still free damage that's tied to meditate, it also allows the option to use meditate more aggressively. Obviously with it's current iteration you aren't going to be getting max stacks for a 500 potency Soha unless it's a invuln. transmission phase since channeling it during a encounter with low standby phases would be a massive dps loss. Hopefully they work on improving it so its not such a niche ability.

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Seigan, 15 kenki skill that barley to almost doesn't increases your dps in any meanful way.
Well 1 tick of shoha is 50 pots. So if seigan doesn't really help your dps, what do you think shoha 50 potency gonna do? Its free Dmg that doesn't increase your dps in anyway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

Instead of a Chakra clone they could make it a combo off of Midare.

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But we already have Midare to combo off of Midare now. :^)

My personal suggestion would be decoupling Seigan from Third Eye, giving it an appropriate cooldown, and having it build stacks. If nothing else it'd make a very niche skill and what looks to be another very niche skill actually useful.

Why did they even bother going through the effort of adding a skill that will be used this infrequently? It's not like samurai were looking at meditate and thinking "Yeah, this is the skill that needs to combo into something."

Heck, if anything make it combo off of Seigan so you have some weird triggered ogcd combo chain.