Squadron, Chocobo, Trust, Retainer, and Companion Lite-Unification and New Features

Just wanted to talk about the few NPC systems, and some possible ones, and hoping to both add and bring them into a sort of main through-line. Not suggesting they'll be perfectly unified at the end, just a collection of ideas I wanted to see and some basic similar activities I wished they could share (the through-line I was mentioning).

So first we can mention what those are:

1. Chocobo
2. Squadron
3. Trust

And could be:

1. Retainer
2. Companion 1.0

Now want to mix them all into a semi-unified through-line even if they occasionally branch a little.

Expand the squadron list to include more content, including primals (restrictions apply), of course new content that's still hot on the press wont be there (to protect the DF).

Some of the below features can be used to temporarily help a missing slot, in both the queue and when in the dungeon. For example you may sit in queue for too long and so it asks if you want to continue with NPCs replacements (may ask it to continue looking for a real person while inside too, but there will need some hand off restrictions so a person doesn't fumble a boss). Also if a slot becomes open because someone is removed to vote and such or left the duty then the game will check the DF first and if no one is immediately available will continue with an NPC until handoff is possible (like above, should be careful about switching when in a boss fight.. perhaps they wait at the gate until it's over and then take the place of the NPC).

Chocobo:

• Relative strength: In comparison to other options (all of the above) chocobos will start out weaker and have one of the longest growth paths of all options, at their peak they will be one of the most diverse characters to bring and will be more powerful than squadron members and depending on what you value aggressively compete with the other options (that is a long road though).
• Obtain difficulty: first (?) one is at least easy to get, but all are a long road to master. Summoning to open world is cheap and very easy, to bring to dungeons a bit different but not horrible. More limited in quantity than any of the other options (most will only have 1, meaning the other two or more slots will not be chocobos)
• Can now enter dungeons through the squadron screen, they will not take up a squadron slot though (how many squadron people you can recruit). New chemistry can be added for chocobos.
• Chocobos cannot be sent off on their own like squadrons can be (only join you in a dungeon with your other NPCs).
• For lore (chocobo normally wuss out at dungeon doors lol) and perhaps for balance reasons there can be a special pepper required to have them join in the dungeon queue menu (like the menu says: 2k GC for squadron + 1 fiery goblin pepper for 1 chocobo), these peppers wont be too hard to obtain like retainer tokens but are something to consider.
• For what chocobo's could offer, how they can continue to develop past level 20, become more powerful, new content, how perhaps we might give out peppers I've written a chocobo specific thread here which may help add ideas to that. Don't need to read that thread but just know I assume when mentioning this chocobo change that chocobos will have more content, and can become more powerful as well. To the point that a maxed chocobo could be most fearsome, but also a fearsome task to complete- sort of a relic quest in and of it's own.
• Value over others/why to consider: worth developing them if you're interested in the long haul (a lot of customization and unique features, and a deep progression that rewards you), and because they're freaking chocobos :)
• May bless your chocobo with lore armor, protecting them from tempering (and allowing you to bring them into primal fights). That sweet plot armor can come from chocobo paradise and some questline bonding.

Squadron:

• Relative strength: They're not particularly strong or super specialized like a Trust member might be but they'll get the job done and get it done without extreme grinding to earn them, they are baseline and at end game after you max all the options out they will be the weakest but also are still the cheapest to use (free pretty much).
• Obtain difficulty: Easy to obtain, obviously can enter dungeons. Mastering isn't particularly too hard either.
• Squadron members will be posted earlier in the game in front of dungeons (if you don't have a squadron they'll just be hanging out like a normal NPC).
• You may talk to the squadron to queue for the dungeon with automatic fill out of NPC after a certain time queued (like if you queue longer than 5-10 minutes fill the slots with appropriate squadron NPCs). This is for low level players who haven't unlocked their army of choices yet (so lore wise they meet adventurers at the door to these dungeons, they're not part of their squad yet).
• Should probably be in an open world content thread I want to make..... but I'd like to see an NPC in zones, or in city that leads to level appropriate zones, that allows you to create an EXP party. While in the EXP party your exp from open world monsters is greatly enhanced (blue mage-esq) and there are some special monsters that will spawn as the exp party timer goes down (sudden objectives, stronger enemies, EXP party specific FATEs perhaps, and of course the party can join in normal FATEs). These EXP parties can have other players in them, but will also auto fill out with these squadron/chocobo members if no one is around. May need a limit on them for spamming reasons, but if they're limited it could be like completing a level roulette once per day (except more exp / gil since there are no real item rewards in the open world, and add like a bonus 5% per real person or something to encourage people to want to open world group together).
• Will be important for other features too, beyond the squadron venture system they already have. Like deck hands for airship / ship content. Wrote some idea on that, here.
• Value over others/why to consider: They'll, slowly, be upgraded into companions later, some of the easiest to get/fill out a roster with, have a decent start (but cap out in strength at least until they upgrade), can help with some tasks like airships if that becomes a thing and they can be used for automated content (sending them off into dungeons like retainer ventures)
• May not fight primals, can be tempered. There are ways around this (read above and below), but for lore reasons not just "anyone" can fight a primal.

Trust:

• Relative strength: They're specialized at a particular task and start out already quite strong, have better AI than squadrons, and through earning trust (lol) they can unlock further potential. At what they're meant to do they're good, and at they're max potential they're still great. Better than squadrons hands down, maybe not your chocobo if you've spent a lot of time raising it but they wont be a joke. Some unique features (special skills/etc) may make them better still than your companions but the difference between a well progressed companion and a well progressed trust member won't be as grand as to the squadron comparison.
• Obtain difficulty: MSQ / story - so time wise "harder" than squadrons but not really a difficulty beyond that. They are busy people though so their frequency of use and where to use them will have some restrictions.
• While they will show up in the dungeon roll out list like chocobos they wont take up squadron slots.
• Trust members will have timers on re-using them because they're busy important people, you can't just collapse the Ishgard government because you have a huge Aymeric crush. Based on trust the cost to call them will be relatively nothing though ("friend please help" "yeh okay", but then they have to go back to their day to day duties).
• I'm reticent to say they can be in the overworld because I think it'll be a bit silly to see 5 Aymeric fighting next to each other.. lol. So I want to say no open-world too, even though that damages some of the through-line.
• May consider special "chemistry" bonuses with them such that it can be beneficial to farm some stuff with them occasionally even if you've made your most epic chocobo and custom companion team (like perhaps Minfilla increases rewarded rested exp rate and a hidden trait of light farm for relics)
• For those going through the MSQ for the first time the timer would probably not be an issue since you go from dungeon content to a lot of side content (time between instances being time to reset timer, or alternatively may allow MSQ to call trusts regardless of time so its more of a thing to think about afterwards when you're farming and such).
• Value over others/why to consider: They start out the strong and maintain their strength well, they will have some unique to them features that might mean a lot depending on what you're attempting to do, while they are a bit harder to get to because they're locked behind story content and such they're not hard to get beyond that (story gate), they're also epic people so it's fun to see them fight and be with them. A great choice when you're pushing the edge of content that a squadron member isn't strong enough for (party full of trust members is formidable).
• May fight primals, at least some of them.

Edit: Trusts are now out, seems like they reset their level at the end. I feel since they're not released on a timer it would gain bad response to put them on one now. I think it would be nice if you didn't have to level them again (to re-unlock dungeon content) but I do think some sort of ranking system could be cool, increasing their power/feature and in terms of squadrons / trusts perhaps they can help teach and mentor them (allowing trusts and squadrons to coexist more peacefully and purposefully).

Companion 1.0 Inspired:

• Relative strength: Near strength to trust members after progression content (and will be similarly specialized into a role beyond "tank", "healer", "damage dealer"), though with probably a few more options and quest/rpg elements (may even allow players to romance their companion member).
• Obtain difficulty: After completing a certain set of tasks (achievements, MSQ, etc) you will earn the story of a companion. You may use this story (item, like a soul gem) on one of your current squadron members or on the one SE assigns to that "story" (this companion will take a slot in your squad). Some restrictions may apply to the story items like "must be used on a female, or miqote" (since the dialog may have them talk a certain way). There may not be enough companion stories to replace all your squadrons.
• In 1.0 you had this companion with their own storyline, progression, and could fight with you. Imagine a bit like an NPC in a single player RPG like a Bioware game. This means they will make comments in fights, and have dialog outside of them. They're a classic rpg companion (like our 1.0 ones, maybe even literally revive them in some way lol).
• Here I think it would work well as a create your own "nearly a" Trust member, although they wont have the same timer restrictions like them. You can do their quests, upgrade their capabilities and reduce their cost
• Create your own trust members can be summoned in the open world as well (perhaps with a restriction of 1 NPC + chocobo out at a time).
• May want to add a sort of squadron fantasia-lite item that will allow you to change the look of your companion/squadron member with the look of any of your other squadron or potential squadron members or reset to the default SE created (for that companion).
• Value over others/why to consider: They upgrade/replace squadron members, so everything you valued about a squadron member except now they're stronger and have some story elements. Perhaps only slightly or sometimes not at all weaker than trust when upgraded but might not have as many unique abilities though (no obsidian carby).
• May fight primals, at least some of them (some of the stories are characters that have echo, some maybe not).

Retainer:

• Relative strength: Will show up in the squadron list if in combat form just like the others (costs venture tokens), their power coming from the gear you give them and will directly affect their strength. A very well equipped retainer will be stronger than a squadron member but moderate equipment will be similar, and obviously retainers are easy to obtain too. Will not be stronger than a high end chocobo, trust, companion (your retainer still spends a lot of time at the market board ;)).
• Obtain difficulty: They're easy to get, and bringing retainers may cost extra retainer tokens.
• Bringing them onto dungeons at the cost of tokens can also trigger their quick venture to higher effectiveness rather than chemistry (for example each dungeon has an "ilvl" range that bringing your retainer on will trigger their quick venture for that ilvl when you complete the dungeon, ilvl of the dungeon and not your retainer's ilvl then determining venture rewards).
• Completing a dungeon with them will allow you to have them lead your squadron on a unique venture that rewards some of the items from that dungeon (a quite long venture that takes both your squad and retainer, and will return a distribution of economic and gear items from that area). Since a squadron is of 8 members this means people wont feel bad if they didn't buy an extra retainer (2 retainers leading a squadron of 8 makes 2 war parties).
• Retainers may be called to help you in the open world at the cost of tokens (one of your earlier NPC options, so you can NPC + Chocobo. Of course if they're with you then they're not at the market board though).
• Depending on server stress this may cause retainers will check how many slots are open and let you fill up that many slots of space (but wont let you manipulate the full slots or publish to market boards until by a retainer bell, to preserve server stress- unless that doesn't hurt the server.. which I doubt lol).
• May vendor to these guys (trash sell).
• May only have one retainer out and about at a time (no army of retainers), follows the same rule as above "1 npc" and + chocobo.
• If they're called out to you while crafting/gathering they will have start timer of 30 minutes and takes into account the average ilvl and # of gathering/items made during that time and turns it into a venture calculation. So instead of their gear it'll read the level of your crafted items and increase rarity chance based on # completed.
• Instead of the above many also consider that while they're summoned and you're gathering/crafting they have some helpful abilities to ease a task (DoL/DoH retainer doesn't matter, both can help either job). For example an ability could be on long cooldown that restores items broken from the last recipe, or another that returns some bonus GP/CP. These shouldn't be too extreme but certainly helpful for progression and just making life a bit smoother (like "duplicates successful item" would be way too much on a crafter lol). The visual of them kneeling next to you and helping out visually like that would be cool, like in real life you imagine someone holding something steady for you while you complete some task.
• Value over others/why to consider: Your squadron members are not quite upgraded yet so you can't take them out as a companion in the open world, you decked out your retainer because you're rich and so it's stronger than most of your companions, you want to be able to store/sell some stuff on the fly, you want to earn more money by having them complete an accelerated ventures, you want to control the type of venture they run (ilvl of the venture being read from the dungeon/node/crafted item), would like extra help while DoH/DoL'ing.
• May not fight primals due to tempering.
• As an aside some of these features I kind of want into a FFIX sort of flute moogle.. so I might at some later date may make a few overlapping features (not with the intention of overlapping but just.. would like to see a flute moogle real bad lol).

Now an extra note on expanding the squadron content list.. may also consider this tool (this sort of unified system set) to help revitalize unusual content that's not possible to progress in anymore like diadem or eureka. Eureka isn't dead yet but I imagine in 5.0 it'll be very quiet and very very awkward to progress in without something like this. Although a strong note on "consider" for those unusual contents as there are other things that could be done, like diadem could be collapsed into another new content piece with the rewards brought to that or many other options (just saying consider this tool as a possible way to prevent the true death of content, if SE wanted it to be that way).

Tl;dr might be seen as:

• All of the NPCs can join you into dungeons, most can join you into the open world, many can also help out when content is quiet or you've lost someone and there is no replacement

Their power levels and costs to obtain them are spread out based on their features for example:

• Trust members are the easiest "strongest" members to earn but also come with timers
• While squadron are the easy to obtain and easiest to endlessly call for help but have the worst peak power
• Companions come later in story/progression of contents (compared to squadrons/chocobos) but revitalize your squadrons and are a bit customize-able trust-like members with some classic rpg companion elements (story/quest)
• Chocobos are near relic quest sort of concept but come with the most extreme variety of choices and growth potential (potentially exceptionally diverse and strong), also happen to be the cheapest / earliest options.
• Retainers offer some of their unique QoL on the field (accelerated ventures with control to their target brackets, help with DoL/DoH, and on the field selling/and perhaps limited storage).

Thanks for reading :)

Shougun: First of all...thank you for the post.

As a fan of the Squadrons, I really like your Squadron ideas.

I have a full level 60 squadron & i love do the squadron dungeons for several reasons:
1. to level alt jobs.
2. to learn the alt job.
3. get all the gear.

I feel as we get into new expansions, such as Shadowbringers, that queuing up for old ARR or HW dungeons will be long. Squadrons can help with this, especially in with the ARR & HW dungeons & FATES. I wish SE would upgrade the squadrons to jobs after level 50. Having them out in the open world in those old content would be great.

Chocobos now have "pet status", they should be allowed in the old content dungeons with you, especially unsynced.

I hope the devs take a look at your post, alot of good ideas & suggestions here.

So we have some more info on Trusts, looks like when you use the duty finder you can open up the window to use the trust members instead (it's been said before they're just for Shadowbringers, in other interview at least).

One of the many videos made: MTQ If you want different video or w.e: here may be some.

Obviously we still have room for more info but it does look like Trust gobbled up Squadron features (for Shadowbringers).. So that would go back to my desire/one part of my core points for this thread. That I'd like to see some unification or at least making sure that features are not suddenly left to languish. Again maybe more info will help so we'll try not to gloom and doom about it as we have room to be learn more lol, but I do prefer to bring the umbrella and not need it than need an umbrella and not have it.

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Originally Posted by Nighthawky2010

Shougun: First of all...thank you for the post.

As a fan of the Squadrons, I really like your Squadron ideas.

I have a full level 60 squadron & i love do the squadron dungeons for several reasons:
1. to level alt jobs.
2. to learn the alt job.
3. get all the gear.

I feel as we get into new expansions, such as Shadowbringers, that queuing up for old ARR or HW dungeons will be long. Squadrons can help with this, especially in with the ARR & HW dungeons & FATES. I wish SE would upgrade the squadrons to jobs after level 50. Having them out in the open world in those old content would be great.

Chocobos now have "pet status", they should be allowed in the old content dungeons with you, especially unsynced.

I hope the devs take a look at your post, alot of good ideas & suggestions here.

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<3 :D

It'll be interesting to see what they've intended. Like if Squadrons go up to Stormblood (or just HW . . . ?) and Trusts definitely appear to be the Shadowbringer mates. That's what I imagine is most likely at least. Of course as point of the thread I'd like to see Trusts not be "just" Shadowbringer or Squadrons "just" be old old content and never updated.

Of course I understand if the AI is hard to modify that it's not an easy ask, I hope that the AI is or becomes potentially like more gambit scripted-esq (like other FF games that use gambit) so such that they're able to adjust in most cases without any extra script.

I'll modify OP if the system we see is different enough from what I've imagined they will be. Like so far Trusts have lined up exactly how I imagined SE would be making them, so I don't really need to adjust yet lol.

Also in a recent interview (one of the medias in the first link posted here) disused that they updated the code for chocobo's from ARR (in 4.4) so I really hope we can get more chocobo content (CHOOOCOOOBOOO PARADDISSEEEEEE plz :p).

Love your ideias about the companions, specially use the squadron/reteiner to do dungeons and open world content, this trust system they implement have a lot of potential and would be very cool if they expand that IA to others "partner" system. We can take as a good example in how to implement a follower in a MMO in Star Wars Old Republic, it's a old game, but they have a very interesting companion system, with quest stories like you suggest.

I don't think this would be overpower or would kill the dungeon finder, I only use the trust system to level with the main quest for the first time, them I always prefer to group with other people, it's more fun and faster to leveling. I'm a relative new player, and I tried to level in ARR and HW as a DPS, I had to wait about 30 minutes each time I had to do a dungeon, I gave up and start playing tank in Stormblood. I did not have this same issue in Shadowbringers, because of the trust system.

As long as take your companion to the open world, would be cool to make fates, farming with some NPCs besides the chocobo. Places like HW and Stormblood is really hard to have people to run fates with you and some jobs just can't do it alone, having a pool of npc to bring depending of your needs would be nice.

I wish I could summon my companion when I'm doing a duty solo unsynced, It would open the door for soloing certain duties with much more jobs.

Maybe my memory is failing, but im pretty sure your companion from 1.0 WAS your retainer. (I know the thread is old)
But in all seriousness, I would love to see this all work out as well.
-Trust members should have unique dialogue, and can use limit breaks.
-Squadrons require more work to keep them up to par (initially) and work as generalized filler characters (or like replacement NPCs who only temporarily work as trust members, like the 2 in ShB) They can also be leveled up through training.
-Retainers would also be like Squadron members in effectiveness, except the ONLY level up from ventures. They are only used if you dont have squadrons available, or you really just want the retainer with ya.
-Chocobos would technically be the worst option. They default to the DPS role, unless you have points ONLY into healer/tank roles, for healer/tank positions in the group. If you dont have enough points into healer/tank, the game gives u a strong warning before you enter. if your chocobo has a mixture of roles, the game will also warn u the chocobo will hardly use healer/tank role actions while defaulted to the DPS role. (Only if u agree to the warning, can u enter the dungeon, which may end up a failure) like retainers, they only level up outside of dungeons. (killing enemies in dungeons does count towards your challenge log though)
all but trusts are weaker in that they cant use limit breaks. the other options are just there for fun, more than anything.

This thread was necroed from last year. There's no news about new features to be found here.

Necro aside, I would like to be able to use a retainer or squadron member as an open world companion like the chocobo. I'd rather have a BFF or waifu fighting with me than Big Bird. Don't get me wrong, I love my birb, even finally got him to Rank 20 after 6 years, but it would be cool to have a "person" type open world companion. That was one of my favorite things about SWTOR.

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

Maybe my memory is failing, but im pretty sure your companion from 1.0 WAS your retainer. (I know the thread is old)

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Actually, they were not. The companion NPC in 1.0 was the Path Companion, who was a fellow member of Minfilia's Scion-predecessor organisation the Path of the Twelve, and thus they possesed the Echo like you and could thus speak with Primals like you could without danger of tempering (in fact, it was an ill-advised and unauthorised jaunt to Za'harak to meet Ifrit at your Path Companion's behest in 1.0 that Minfilia first discovered the Echo gave immunity to tempering in the first place).

They were story-wise of Ala Mhigan birth, and had a relative in the Ala Mhigan Resistance that you had to save during the story. Either way, they were last seen undergoing medical treatment at the ALC's Guild in Ul'dah after being shot by Gaius... and that was the last we saw or heard from them (it's assumed they perished in the Calamity).

Your retainer however is a completely different character, they're just a servant you hire to store your items for you and run sales on the Market Ward/Board on your behalf, which was the case even in 1.0. They're far from adventurer material though, which is why they're retainers in the first place, hardly the sharpest tools in the shed, but they're more than capable of mundane/boring tasks such as running bazaars and finding shinies. Retainer Ventures are pretty much just an extension of this. Hence why they wouldn't last ten seconds in say Sastasha or the Bowl of Embers. They'd suffer poor Avare's fate... only far faster. :( (Yes I know they can bring back gear and items from fairly high level trials and dungeons, even old raid items, but the development team has basically handwaved that and said "use your imagination" when asked about exactly how retainers can bring back stuff like White Raven Fragments from ventures).

And thus, this is also why Retainers specifically would most definetely not be a suitable candidate gameplay-wise to be able to be taken into dungeons and other instanced content. They'd be just too weak and would be too much trouble that it's worth in SE's eyes to have to code for (this is also why the Squadrons and Trusts have such limited use, Trusts the dungeons have to be specially coded for and Squadron AI has to be tailored for each dungeon it's allowed into).

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

stuff

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A bit of a grey area in some of that, cuz the companion was used to sell items for u in the market wards. Menfillia introduced them, with all the same features u pick for your retainer. In ARR they are introduced roughly after your dealing with ifrit, and addition to the scions, with a lot of the same options. IMO its not directly the same story character, but are essentially the same function. (Which was more so where I was going with that, as I just turn off all old storylines, as a lot of it has been erased/retcons with the new lore from when yoshida took over) As for suitability, you do raise them in combat roles, and in short, can still be made to be combat NPCs.
As for the companion of old, they only had them, since DoH/DoL could go through the story, and the companion was to do all the dirty work for players. Since thats no longer the direction of 14, they were just reworked into retainers. Just as the new tank stances arent technically the same identical moves of old, they are the current iteration based on functionality.