Roleplaying Hingan/Doman language speakers...

So, I've got a huge question.

How is appropriate to roleplay a midlander or au ra from Kugane when it comes to language?

Occasionally putting japanese words in your sentences? Or maybe using improper english words here and there, as in the case of a not so perfect fluent eorzean?

For example:

"Is this... poison?!" could be "Is this... doku?"

or maybe something like:

"Ah, your pub needs staff?" could be "Ah, your pub needs stuff?" as in staff and stuff got similar english pronounciations, someone not perfectly fluent eorzean could easily mistake them?

Or maybe I can just simplify things and not use anything special at all?
:confused:

It honestly depends on the roleplayer, but there are lots of ways you can represent that. First off, technically you might not have to. The Echo allows characters to speak and understand all languages, so you can just assume through that lens that you might be speaking Hingan a lot of the time and your fellow adventurers understand anyway. At the same time though, that's not a particularly flavorful approach. Language in the game is treated fairly flippantly most of the time. Even non-echo characters seem to have little trouble speaking with the varied peoples of the Far East, even if this makes more sense for extremely well educated Sharlyan characters than less academically inclined people like Lyse or the random western NPCs around. The Domans in Mor Dohna didn't seem to have much language troubles either, and several people like Hozan made good friends with the local Eorzeans.

To get back to advice, there are a few methods that I've seen, and it sort of depends on how you want to see your character. Any or all of these work, it really depends on what you want to do. There's no wrong or right answer really. Even what's below are just some of my own opinions or ideas mostly.

If they are well educated but not well traveled, it makes sense to have them be fluent, but showcase a few eccentricities. They can use overly formal diction, or not know many contractions. On a more comical level it makes sense if they misunderstand common Eorzean phrases or even take them far too literally. They might be a bit self conscious about these failings, or think that they know it perfectly and be overconfident. I personally like to play scholarly and noble characters a lot (even if my character right now is simply Eorzean), so this tends to be one of my favorite methods.

If they are well traveled but not well educated, then you can do something of the opposite. They have conversational ability and less formal diction, but their vocabulary is more limited. They will use phrases and axioms, but struggle with more complicated and specific words. They will have the vocabulary for their particular trade (say sailing as an example) down pat, but they will also ask about certain phrases, or use words from their own language before correcting themselves. You can say things like "there are lots of alcoves in the park, do you use this word, alcoves?" This style seems to be the most common that appears in the actual game.

If they are not well traveled and not well educated then their diction and ability to communicate might be a mess. They'll use short words and phrases, frequently mix up words, and drift into using their own language a lot. This is probably the most difficult to roleplay since, well, you have to try and pretend you don't know the language of the server. If your roleplay group prefers easy talking that might make it more trouble than its worth too.

Hope this at least gives food for though, and thanks for actually taking the time to consider this sort of thing!

I think slipping in japanese words or mixing up prononciations like you offered as examples works well. I've also seen some people put other languages within symbols like instead of "Oh hello there" meaning saying it in common or whatever the standard language is, they would say <Oh hello there> to denote it was in Hingan or some Xaelan tongue etc, when it comes to speaking full sentences in another language.

There's an in-universe example of this with the SAM trainer who gets his words mixed-up due to not being particularly well-versed in common.

Thanks for the input you all!

I never really touched SAM, but will try to see if I can find the dialogues to get that example.

The SAM trainer does a common second language learner thing where he mishears proper nouns. Examples:

• Eorzea is "Heir's Ear"
• Stonesthrow is "Storm's Blow"
• the Yellow Jackets are the "Mellow Packets"
• a Qiqirn is a "Quick Earn"
• a Popoto is a "Laugh a Bell".
• the Ixal are "Icky Soles"

Basically, any proper noun, invented word, or revival of an archaic word is an opportunity to invent a creative mess-up. Relatedly, you might also borrow from players who have trouble with game terms (e.g., "orchestration", "Allagan tombstones", "guildheist").

Another thing to look at is common grammar errors for Japanese speakers learning English.

I searched Google for "japanese grammar errors learning english" and got some interesting things.

First result includes a table of some common incorrectly-used words.

Second result goes into good depth, with some interesting possibilities that won't come off as cartoonish "poor grammar" but just slightly odd phrasing.

One I found interesting is that they will tend to use the form "X is doing Y" instead of the simpler "X does Y" - which oddly enough, I think is a grammar quirk of my own... perhaps from watching a lot of subtitled anime.

Other examples include the order in which negatives are used (eg. "I think we shouldn't do that" instead of "I don't think we should do that"), and also putting "I think" at the grammatically-correct-for-Japanese end of the sentence instead of the start (and let's throw in the other verb structure as well - "we shouldn't be doing that, I think"). The meaning is never lost, but the phrasing is unusual.


I won't keep linking other results, but it's worth looking through a few to gather ideas.



And of course a fallback for word confusion is "L vs R" - apparently a lot of native Japanese speakers can't even actually hear the difference. I also distinctly remember going to a manga-drawing workshop one time with a Japanese presenter who was, for the most part, very good at English - but not only said "flames" instead of "frames" (ie. panels of a comic) but wrote it that way on the whiteboard as well.

The game itself is rather inconsistent when it comes to foreign languages - and specifically what language the Hingans are speaking.

The lorebook section on Au Ra language says that the Raen have "assimilated to Far Eastern culture [and] adopted the common tongue of the Hyur. Their spoken language differs some from that spoken in Eorzea, which leads many to perceive it as a slightly odd dialect."

An "odd dialect" of Eorzean, not a separate language entirely. And yet there are many in-game indications that 'Japanese' language exists and words are explained in it - plus I read that there is signage in Kugane using altered hiragana, like the Eorzean areas use altered English letters.

The second lorebook may go into more detail about how this all works.



Also I have to say Musosai's mangling of only proper nouns annoyed me. Why mispronounce obvious location or race names like they are random words or phrases? How is normal language perfectly navigable until you encounter an organisation name that uses the words "yellow jackets" (complete with the visual prompt that all the members are in fact wearing yellow jackets)?

Does anyone know what he did in Japanese? Perhaps normally-katakana words written as soundalike kanji?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Iscah

An "odd dialect" of Eorzean, not a separate language entirely. And yet there are many in-game indications that 'Japanese' language exists and words are explained in it - plus I read that there is signage in Kugane using altered hiragana, like the Eorzean areas use altered English letters.

The second lorebook may go into more detail about how this all works.

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It does. Page 34 of EE2, for those who have the book. The page on "Far Eastern script" in specific is page 40. It does indeed use one-to-one character substitutions for hiragana, including older kana from pre-WW2 (which are currently obsolete in modern Japanese).

"Far Eastern script" is implied to be Othard-wide (although I suspect they only count the "civilized" Othardians, ie no Xaela), with the kana equivalents being widespread, and the kanji equivalents being Yanxian in specific (eg the single character for "Doma"). Yanxian logograms came first, which probably makes it the equivalent of ancient Chinese script, compared to modern Japanese kana.

EE2 also has a brief mention of the overarching history of languages on Hydaelyn: most languages in the setting come from Imperial Allagan, but fragmented after the Fourth Umbral Era. (The Allagan language in itself comes from Hyur dialects from Aldenard before that.) Modern Eorzean is apparently closer to classical Allagan, because the Hyur tribes were still around, while more distant places like Othard had greater linguistic drift.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The game itself is rather inconsistent when it comes to foreign languages - and specifically what language the Hingans are speaking.

The lorebook section on Au Ra language says that the Raen have "assimilated to Far Eastern culture [and] adopted the common tongue of the Hyur. Their spoken language differs some from that spoken in Eorzea, which leads many to perceive it as a slightly odd dialect."

An "odd dialect" of Eorzean, not a separate language entirely. And yet there are many in-game indications that 'Japanese' language exists and words are explained in it - plus I read that there is signage in Kugane using altered hiragana, like the Eorzean areas use altered English letters.

The second lorebook may go into more detail about how this all works.

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The second lore book goes into a lot more detail on languages and makes it pretty clear that Eorzean and Hingan are completely separate languages. But, it also clarifies that when western traders came to the Far East, the Eorzean Common Tongue of the Hyur spread pretty quickly with the influx of written media and the language became popular in Hingashi. This seems to clarify the previously extremely weird Raen quote above. They adopted the Common Tongue of the Hyur when it came to the Far East, but it still varies some from the Eorzean version, making it a new dialect.

I've compiled all the language lore I could find in this post on Languages and Accents. You can find all the new EE2 info in there, including pictures of the Far Eastern script.