Job/Role daydreaming

So this is just some daydreaming I had while bored at work, considering the role skills system the game currently has. What if they gave each class an alternate spec/role, utilizing the role skills more heavily? (keeping in mind that it would have to make sense with the job as a whole if it were to cross a role barrier)

For instance, I think tank role skills are already halfway there....just consolidate the rest of the defensive cooldowns into there, add a heavy threat weaponskill + aoe, along with a stance/trait to take reduced damage. Then most of the melee classes could tank as well.

Similarly, for a DPS kit, put in a trait/stance to do increased damage and whatever support skills would be needed for balance. Then the current tanks can go as full-fledged DPS - who wouldn't want those greatswords and giant axes to do bigger numbers :p

Black Mage, Bard, and Machinist would probably need something to switch within different DPS specs (maybe something similar to Noct/Diurn sects for AST?). The healers could all draw upon a DPS kit pretty effectively, given just a few tweaks to numbers and an added skill or 2.

Could open up some interesting combinations and party setups if they changed things up like this. I imagine it'd be a complete nightmare for the balance team, though hehe

Anyways, this was just a muse/ramble, though I'd be curious what other people would think of this.

So. .. talent trees or specs from WoW is what you want?

What would be the purpose when we can already change jobs if we need to be tank or healer or DPS for whatever reason?

My experience is people ask for these types of changes when they want to be more efficient at soloing content without having any concern about the impact those changes would have on group play. Such changes would lead to homogenization and homogenization leads to people getting bored because there's nothing to switch to when they're in the mood to do something differently.

It also leads to a meta where only one class job gets invited because that job is seen as the best overall at doing it all.

While I miss things like spec and talents from WoW, I don't think this would be a great fit for FF XIV. Taking say Ninja and Samurai and tacking on a few basic tank skills would just water the game down.

With them allowing us to take all 10 tank skills I think they should do the opposite. Get rid of cross roll skills in 5.0, which I think this change is prepping for, and then just bake the important things into the jobs.

In a game like EOS maybe flexible roles fits well. Or in GW2 where there is no trinity system. In FF XIV, I don't think muddying the waters between roles would fit or even really add anything since we can play every job on one character as is. Want to swap to a tank? Level a tank job and click a button.

While I think it would be a neat idea for Red Mages to be able to heal because of the class concept, I just don't buy the idea of a Ninja trying to tank damage.

Isn’t this what they’re going for with the ‘Logos’ system featured in the next Eureka?(Pyros)
Not quite the same since it’ll be Eureka only and the abilities are likely heavily restricted (huge cooldowns, they’re consumable, likely a pain to get)

Certain cross-role abilities will be added in the new Eureka content that allow a class to temporarily take on another role. Examples given were an ability that increases max HP and defense for melee or a Cure spell for every job.

I’d give anything to be able to use Cure, Raise and Stoneskin again as a Bard like in pre-2.0 versions. They can take all the DPS they want away from the job

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

What would be the purpose when we can already change jobs if we need to be tank or healer or DPS for whatever reason?

My experience is people ask for these types of changes when they want to be more efficient at soloing content without having any concern about the impact those changes would have on group play. Such changes would lead to homogenization and homogenization leads to people getting bored because there's nothing to switch to when they're in the mood to do something differently.

It also leads to a meta where only one class job gets invited because that job is seen as the best overall at doing it all.

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You just described where we are sitting right now...

I'm a boycotter of the role skill/sub job system. It's an antiquated system that makes everything more tedious than it has to be already. Even back in FFXI, I remember thinking how much I hated the subjob system because even for casual content, I was forced to level jobs I had absolutely zero interest in if I wanted to participate in group play. I remember being an RDM/WHM and getting booted from an exp party so they could nab a RDM/BLM (because RDM/BLM had like +2 additional INT over the other, so you know... more deeps). Then I remember getting picked up by another party and then getting /tells from my former party asking me to come back (apparently their optimal rdm/blm wasn't working out as they had hoped).

Now that is a story over a decade old, and times are different now.... or are they? I think we still have the same, yet modernized meta yo. I just can't fathom why anyone wants this system in 2018. Is it nostalgia? I could see them tossing a subjob system into something like Eureka that deviates from the normal instances, but I think it would only serve to frustrate today's players who see the cross skill/sub job system for what it is in today's standards. It has no place, sorry. The dev team should focus on making jobs unique but balanced. And the more skills there are in the pool, the more difficult this becomes.

I would be totally ok with zero jobs being introduced in 5.0 for a system that favors how I envision our jobs being played: Diverse, balanced, fun as hell to not only level but max out in ilvl.

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

You just described where we are sitting right now...

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Not entirely.
There are different "metas" depending on what you're trying to do, each job is good at different things - AST is the best healer for speed kills where everyone knows what they're doing but when you're progging WHM is much better as it can easily recover faster; Monk and Ninja are pretty much interchangeable considering the latter's aggro tools aren't nearly as valuable now, some groups even take both over a second ranged DPS for certain fights.

The only jobs that are really locked in terms of "meta" are Warrior, Paladin, Scholar, Dragoon and Bard.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I'm a boycotter of the role skill/sub job system. It's an antiquated system that makes everything more tedious than it has to be already. Even back in FFXI, I remember thinking how much I hated the subjob system because even for casual content, I was forced to level jobs I had absolutely zero interest in if I wanted to participate in group play.

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The role archetype is specifically made so that you won't have to level jobs you don't want to. Like you don't have to level CNJ if you want to heal effectively as a SCH or AST, anymore.

Right now, jobs are restricted to one weapon only, so if you love having a Big Axe but don't want to tank, you're screwed. Having a DPS role tied to MRD would solve this. Same if you like fighting with a Polearm but would like to tank t the same time.

What I think should be done, on top or role skills, is removing traits for classes and giving them to jobs. This way, a Gladiator-based DPS could have the enmity modifiers removed from its skills or have a potency boost.

And, finally, if each class has a tank/healer associated with it in addition to a DPS, it could make people more eager to try these roles. If you level your pugilist to become a MNK, and gain a fairly high experience with its rotation, you should be more comfortable using most of the same skills as a tank, as opposed to learning a totally new job.