Ninja confuses me

Not in a way that I don't understand it, at least not at Lvl 50. But I 9/10 main a support or healing class, which is why I tend to gravitate towards ranged DPS/healers in almost every mmo. I usually HATE melee due to feeling like I'm stuck with no range and yet....I freaking love the ninja.

But now I'm kinda worried about trying to tune it once I get to 70. You get stones so slow that I feel I have to cost effectivly gear my healers first since it's a one for three deal in that case, and then I can maybe start gearing anything else. So I have to ask are ninjas not strong in end-game or something? Because honestly either i'm blind or I hardly see rogues in dungeons or raids. Not nearly as bad as monks, but they seem about as rare as machinists.

So is there some major reason you don't see many in the ques? Or am I just worried for nothing?

Im a ninja main at endgame (every relevant savage tier down since I started playing) ninjas utility is insanely strong and is one of the most desirable melees (Drg desirable also due to utility plus piercing) if not the most desirable melee at endgame. If you can play ninja well any group will want you.

Personally as I raid on ninja I tend to queue dngs on other jobs just to mix it up a bit and quite a few players do this when it comes to thier main job.

Ninjas are very much needed end game and while i main and have always mained casters for raiding i am playing Ninja.
Is it top dps? No but the support it offers makes up for it i would think. Myself i cannot seem to fine-tune it to be all it could be but am managing.

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Originally Posted by Maero

Is it top dps? No but the support it offers makes up for it i would think. Myself i cannot seem to fine-tune it to be all it could be but am managing.

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Overal yes ninjas personal dps is not as high as other job and utility can make up for this but that's down to how well any job is played. In my static for example where everyone is fairly equal in terms of competence I wouldn't expect to be top on a clean run. In a party of randoms I usually would be regardless of people's jobs.

Talking about job potential/not reaching it I could provide you some feedback if you want it? I'm not perfect and always improving myself.

As someone who usually prefers support-based classes (regardless of role) I can see your concerns. Most of my more favored classes (especially in more faster paced environments) are usually a range type class. Being a melee is usually always more dangerous as usually you have more things to worry about. Having to reposition for mechanics being a major one. Thankfully Ninja has a few tools to help them, like the passive movement speed increase and having a few ranged attacks.

One great thing I like about Ninja in general is that the flow of it's combat feels much more active, especially after you get your 3rd mudra and can start giving your attacks more speed with one of the Ninjutsu.

As for endgame, yeah it's used quite a bit for it's utility. But it's not the best damage wise out of all of them.

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Originally Posted by Lynde

As someone who usually prefers support-based classes (regardless of role) I can see your concerns. Most of my more favored classes (especially in more faster paced environments) are usually a range type class. Being a melee is usually always more dangerous as usually you have more things to worry about. Having to reposition for mechanics being a major one. Thankfully Ninja has a few tools to help them, like the passive movement speed increase and having a few ranged attacks.One great thing I like about Ninja in general is that the flow of it's combat feels much more active, especially after you get your 3rd mudra and can start giving your attacks more speed with one of the Ninjutsu.

As for endgame, yeah it's used quite a bit for it's utility. But it's not the best damage wise out of all of them.

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I'm not to terribly worried about being top DPS, most of the time I only have time to do roulettes and maybe work on leveling a class for a while. I mostly only have a few hours on the weekend for now to play as it is.

But I think both your reasons are why I can stand the ninja. Yes it is melee but it has enough ranged often enough that I don't feel like I can't do anything until I'm in the mook's face. Unlike say with the PLD or WAR which I'm trying to level to have a tank option. Plus with the attack speed and running boost as you said, I don't feel like I have as many noticeable breaks in the flow of combat. Plus combat itself feels more dynamic since I can't just hit a sigle button and must judge which ninjitsu is the best option. I guess in short I like Ninja for the same reasons I like AST, I feel much more involved in playing it vs just hitting buttons when they go off CD in a set rotation. I actually have to think about how to best use the class' mechanic based on the situation rather then trying to fit everything in a set rotation.

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Originally Posted by Malkria

I feel much more involved in playing it vs just hitting buttons when they go off CD in a set rotation. I actually have to think about how to best use the class' mechanic based on the situation rather then trying to fit everything in a set rotation.

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Sure in dngs you have to be smart about mudra use depending on mob vs single target situations but at endgame ninja has to TA consistently on CD and has the highest casts per minute out of any job. Ninjas job is literally the opposite of what you've just described, you have to plan TA, use the burst effectively and press as many buttons per minute as humanly possible, sounds like you'd much prefer a priority/proc job like rdm or bard. Sure ninja has an element of this with mudra but in single target fights it's just fuma, fuma, suiton on a 60 second rotation (ignoring tcj and kasatsu).

Ninja is all about awareness and seeing what's coming next.
You get to swap around elements of your rotation which pretty much allows you to play as you wish in any situation.

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Originally Posted by HiroKirito

Sure in dngs you have to be smart about mudra use depending on mob vs single target situations but at endgame ninja has to TA consistently on CD and has the highest casts per minute out of any job. Ninjas job is literally the opposite of what you've just described, you have to plan TA, use the burst effectively and press as many buttons per minute as humanly possible, sounds like you'd much prefer a priority/proc job like rdm or bard. Sure ninja has an element of this with mudra but in single target fights it's just fuma, fuma, suiton on a 60 second rotation (ignoring tcj and kasatsu). .

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I disagree...as RDM works off procs just like MCH does. Which isn't bad, but that doesn't mean you adapt to the situation. Yes if you have a single target, like a boss, you of course use a different set of skills vs using mobs. Which wasn't my point. My point is by having to key in skills as I need them using the ninja's mechanics I feel much more like I am playing a game vs punching in for a job. Same with the AST and deciding which card to use, when to build for effect, place into the arcana, or just discard. Using ninjitsu as the situation needs it just feels more interactive then simply hitting another button off CD like most of the classes. It's subtle, but I think that is what is selling me on ninja vs say the SAM or even the MCH...and I actually like the MCH, mostly.

Thogh 'press as many buttons per minute as humanly possible' is more of playing a healer. Especially with tanks that like to pull big but either don't have the skill, gear, or both to pull it off. Which of course is MY fault somehow when they die even though I literally have used every CD and trick at my disposal to avoid it. Playing ninja so far has been a vacation compared to healing in this game.

Don't worry about ninja. The reason why you don't find encounter much of them in pf is because they're recruited instantly in groups. So, go for it if you love it.