Motivation for raiding

Coil series has probably been the most succesful so far, Creator Savage seemingly trails just behind that. And that is good. There are however still a huge amount of players not raiding. As it stands, raiding seems to be the only challenge that has the most overall controversy in this game due to the gap in skill. EDIT: I'm talking about overall competency in both DPS output and mechanic executions.

Let's talk about what drives you as a player to raid in this game. Likewise, what turns you off as a player to raid?

EDIT: What can we hope for SE to do for 4.0 onwards for raid? The stigma of "low DPS" has been a huge controversy ever since 2.0, I would like to have your thoughts regarding this matter as well, of course in relation to the raid itself.

It's progression. Why wouldn't I want to progress?

Getting the best gear..and running Savage has not been worth the hassle.

Alex has just been boring. Story was bad, music is not good, enemies are not interesting and holding a raid group together is hard enough without these drawbacks. Coil had good music, interesting enemies, a wonderful story (especially for us committed version 1 vets). Heck even the gear was much better visually than Alex's.

So while I was COIL COIL COIL LETS GOOOOO I haven't even stepped into Alex Savage beyond the first set.

Progression is great and all, but I don't want to do something that I dislike multiple times a week for gear that only lasts a few months give or take, it's simply not worth the investment. I am really waiting for this game to give me that endgame excitement XI did. Dynamis: loved it, Salvage: was a hoot, Sky: let's go, Assault: I'm there, etc etc even after doing it regularly for literally years. I actually still run coil with people when they need clears just for kicks even if its a faceroll now. I enjoy it. But Alex? Meh.

Seeing the story was a great reward for coil raiding, but they completely destroyed it with the alex normal modes (the alex story wasnt as good as coil anyway, but still)

In the end I did alex for some gear upgrades and for the sake of jump rope jumping with my group, I guess

The story was not gripping. It took me a while to even do the normal mode cause I didn't feel any attachment for the characters or wonder how the outcome would affect anything.
The battles were fun but not something I'd run over and over again for gear that won't matter in 2-3 months nor it looked any good.

Coils felt rewarding to do. It gave character growth to the NPCs involved and your own character. What did you get from Alex? I felt more attached and sympathetic towards the primal itself than the characters involved. Coils story felt like a part of the world where Alex felt more like some side thing you won't hear mentioned from NPCs outside the quest line. It left no impact to me, no feelings, no changes, no feeling of satisfaction that my character did a great thing. It was like another quest completed. But coils? Even if it was no longer current content, I went to prod my friends who joined after HW to do it cause it was that amazing and I gladly helped some clear it.

Glamour.

Also I like raiding because it's with my friends. Makes it worthwhile.

It's true that a high percentage of players is not raiding but not necessarily due to the lack of skill. Personally, i find raiding to be extremely stressful from my small experience. Also, the gear is indeed the best in terms of stats but why should i bother with raiding when i can get second best just by waiting a few weeks with tomes? Last week i got my shire weapon and finished shire armor. In 3.5 i will get each piece to i270 and even though it will take some time, im more than fine with that not to mention that my gear will be comparable to the raid gear in terms of basic stats which is all i want in the first place.
So even if SE decides to raise the gap between tome gear and raid gear it will end up badly since the vast majority of people that dont raid will complain about it and i don't believe they are willing to satisfy the needs of the few to the needs of the many, marketing thinking always :o

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Originally Posted by TallonOverworld

It's true that a high percentage of players is not raiding but not necessarily due to the lack of skill. Personally, i find raiding to be extremely stressful from my small experience.

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I beg to differ on the "lack of skill". DPS discrepancy is huge on each job. The same job can do as high as 3k dps, and as low as 300 dps. A DPS job can often do way less damage than a tank/healer does which is a bizarre occurrence. And it has become a "stigma" for basically any player with low DPS output, which normally is way off from the standard the general players should do. In a raid environment, you are required to at least know 60-80% of your basic DPS rotation to clear, the more the better and most players seemingly fail at this department very often.

Stress is sadly unavoidable in a harsher environment. This is mainly due to how the environment is designed around tighter checks, the requirement is tuned much higher which contributes to having to perform better and better to improve the rate of success. Mostly performance issue is what leads to stress. The argument on stress can be bad and/or good depending on how you see the situation.

Coil was more successful because it was more worthwhile. There was a major story behind it that tied in really well to 1.23 and the calamity. That alone was the motivation for a lot of players to push through. personally it was the ONLY reason I completed coil in ARR. certainly didn't care about the gear cos it was all junk..

Since then though it's not been worthwhile. Players won't raid for rewards that aren't worth it. The gear is ultimately junk there is no story. And as such there is no reason to even attempt raids. look at midas savage. 240 gear but still junk the second 3.4 landed and raider s went out and got 250 for creator savage....

savage 270 armor that's not necessary for anything isn't a motivation either when players will have 270 armor thrown at them in a couple of weeks augmenting there shire stuff with no real effort involved...

you can see it with primals... a lot of people won't even bother with Sophia ex for 255 weapons because screw that, get 255 weapons from palace of the dead that are just as good.... and they ain't wrong...

The ONLY way Yoshi is going to get substantially more players raiding / taking on harder content is to make it worthwhile to do so.

Look at MMO's of days gone past. FFXI pre Abbysseaa for example something like HALF the playerbase cleared CoP which was widely regarded as the games toughest content. and at least half those that hadn't cleared it were progressing through it to varying stages..

Despite being notoriously hard players still did it because it was worthwhile and the rewards were valuable.. people spent months on end trying to clear divine might back in the day and they kept on trying till they did it because them earing were "epic" they weren't just some junk that you'd chuck away next week... the final chapter of cops boss fights were the same because those rings at the end were again "epic" rewards

in XIV it just isn't the case. everything is just temporary junk that'll be tossed in a few weeks. thus why bother...
even the challenge isn't lasting... coil was challenging and difficult and yet here we are with people 3mannning t13 it for tails even the "final witness" title is now worthless

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Originally Posted by Sarcatica

I beg to differ on the "lack of skill". .

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It's not always skill it's simply motivation. I know my jobs well enough that I can down the a12s dummies even on jobs that don't meet the gear score requirement to enter a12s. so my dps is up there. and I have no doubt I could suss the mechanics in very little time. for me though its simply a case of why bother? the gear isn't worth it. my friends aren't really interested so it's just not worth the hassle.

and I know a lot of people that say the exact same thing.