Yes another one of those threads. But maybe a point of view you should consider?

*Made a new topic, the TC refers to December making this topic:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ge-cya-in-2013...

And Solace's reply on page 22: forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/27379-Not-the-time-to-charge-cya-in-2013.../page22

Well, I'm a bit inebriated and drank some red bull, and though I don't give my two cents much, I guess I will at this point. I also expect not many of you care.

First off, just got back from deployment a year ago, still got money saved up, so that's not the issue.

One issue is I might be deployed again soon, which would be a big issue, but on to the main topic.

I'd have to agree with the TC, and Solace's above post, if you're gonna give us 50% of a game, it should be 50% of the price.

--Note: This may, and probably will be, long winded.--

Most of the players on here, keep saying the game is in beta, it will get better. You've also been saying this for over a years time. "Oh, it will get better." Next patch: "Oh it will get better." How many of them ended up giving up hope after a while? Even though I came back, I know there were times when I did. Well after coming back post-1.19 (And before, but most of that was logging in, saying high, and then hitting alt+f4), 1.19 is actually quite enjoyable. Though 10-20 seems to be a pain since I started this new character.

I'm on the fence atm, but I'm leaning more towards the TC's and Solace's POV. Squeenix released a pos game to begin with, and now, they are telling us to pay for their mistakes, and fund the game they wanna rebuild.. I'd pay, mainly for the community of people I've met since beginning this game, and people I've known since FFXI. Really, the laggy UI is still boring. Removing ability queuing made it even worse. Blah blah blah, you've all heard it a hundred times before. But maybe what you don't realize or remember, is how barren the game used to be.

Look at some of the first post about the subscriptions, asking people if they will leave the game. They seemed to be half and half, and then there's those on the fence (like myself). Take this into account when Old-ah (yes, I spelled it my friend's way(stolen from Azarim Erro)), and remember back when you ONLY saw people in Oldah. Gridania and LL where player barren wastelands of copy pasted environments. You should also think about how this is seen by new players, or those who just like a fresh start. The game is now more party orientated (YAY!!!).

But what happens when new players, or in some cases, new characters, create and find no one to group with? And all of the fanboys/white knights/current players, have all jobs @ 50 (or Disciples that they care about), and just sit there spamming standard synthesis to get their crafting up? What will the new players do then? Sit in Oldah, spamming {Experience Points} {Spiritbond} {Do you need it?} for hours on end till someone finally sends them a /tell like FFXI? Or just get bored, tired, frustrated and give up? Then how will this game grow?

I'm happy about the previous patches that have been released, especially 1.19/1.19a. But really, FFXIV has a better community (for the most part, most of them are actually playing the game though), than most MMOs. So what happens when that community dies down to nothing but people in their little cliques and linkshells, and runs out of jobs to level? New players come, new players get frustrated, new players quit.

Meh, well that's all for now. Hopefully this will get the point across about why some peoples opinions, are more than just whining and black knighting the game. SE, for once, should maybe think, before implementing charges. And though I don't play much until now, or post very often at all, I hope Bahyone or Ruki (Sorry if I misspelled your names horribly...) read this, and maybe pass it on. >_>

tl;dr: Many people seem on the fence about playing... This means the community could die even more. LFG for hours on end? Boring... *Also Edit To Add to tl;dr* We know we mainly keep playing, for the community, and friends we've made. Without the community, FFXIV still isnt really ????.

*Edited to make it a little more readable*

You're kinda contradicting yourself a bit. You say you don't want to spend hours sitting around LFP or anything, but you also say that everyone is in their own clique or tight LS group, which means they are out doing stuff together and NOT sitting around LFP.

Also, in regards to new players and new characters, I believe that the community should help and support them. Everyone will find their way, no matter where or how they start out.

What I personally would like to see is events that bring other linkshells together in events. Prehaps a raid in which members of Linkshell A have to create a diversion so Linkshell B can attack an objective, and reward both LS's for their participation.

In regards to the paying for an incomplete product, I certainly understand. However, I think that at this point, it's "necessary" in order for the game to progress to this 2.0 level. While I'm not particularly pleased about paying out for it, I do understand where they are coming from.

As is evident in the plan notes, there were many "we need" and "we hope" on behalf of the developers which tells us that they aren't charging us this soon because it's convenient, but rather because they HAVE to or else they'll never reach 2.0. One could argue that SE has plenty of money to pour into XIV from other sources, but to be completely fair, Square Enix is a company, and not a "non-profit" one either.

To compare, there was a news story near my hometown about a football player (whom makes millions) owning and running an arcade or kids game place. The place wasn't doing well and was in danger of shutting down. The football player said that he won't use hit football earnings to bail out the arcade. It's a business and it needs to stand on it's own two feet. Bailing it out wouldn't fix the problem.

In this case, XIV needs to start standing on it's own, which I'm sure it will do.

Everyone is under the assumption that the whole community is going to collapse and die because of subscriptions. This is horribly false, and to be honest, good riddance to the ones who don't want to pay. (For those who CAN'T pay, that's a completely different group. I mean the idiots that want a first tier game and not have to pay for it.)

Ultimately, the game experience will be what the players and community make of it. I, for one, will be staying and paying because I see good things on the horizon and I am happy to be a part of the events leading up to it.

EDIT: Playing video games while drunk is OK. Posting on any kind of forums under such a condition is not such a good idea. But to each their own.

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SE, for once, should maybe think, before implementing charges.

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Lost interest here. Do you really believe they didn't think this through? With all they posted they've been working their asses off. That's why they feel ready to start charging a subscription fee.

I don't see why we needed another thread to reiterate what has allready been said.

Side A: F-this game, we aint paying jack! Peace out!
Side B: Sure we will pay for the future!
Side C: Hell I'm having enough fun right now to pay!

Is there really anything to say that hasn't been said allready? It's anoying that other topical things are being shoved to the 2-3rd page because someone felt the need to make a thread about a allready existing and hot topic in about 5 other threads just so they could have their voice as the OP.

nice post need more opinions from the casuals who log on every now and then but dont hang around these forums every day like most us fanboys.

Alerith: I get where you're saying, as I'm seeing both points of view, and am kinda on the fence if it werent for Aza, John, yourself, and others in the LS, but still. I get it that they need some sort of income, but meh... Unclear thoughts at the moment, I'll leave it at that for now. And yes, lil cliques or own LS members play together, but outside of that, I doubt theres very much outside of just LS parties. Also, love your idea about other LS's working together, great idea for some strategy. And yeah, to each their own, haha. ^^

Feint: I read all three of your sentences, and your, "thinking this through" point, just like their initial release of FFXIV that they thought through ooooh so well and ended up in the mess begin with right?

Jynx: Yes, yes, I know you've read this all before. (So why'd you read again? Or bother to complain for that matter. Did you read the title before clicking to complain? Sheesh...) Just thought maybe I'd add another point of view instead of the old, "WAH WAH WAH! I DONT WANNA PAY!" Or as an old drill sergeant of mine said, "Wah wah wah, I want my milk and cookies. Wah wah wah, I want my milk and cookies." As for why I made another thread, I just wanted people to read it. :D Oh, and you did, and replied which keeps the topic up... and the others on the 2nd-3rd page. -.-...

Stoned: Thanks. Though I'm somewhat of a fanboy myself, though some of my faith dwindled between all the long patch times. Nice to know what took them so long to patch things, but still. xD

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Feint: I read all three of your sentences, and your, "thinking this through" point, just like their initial release of FFXIV that they thought through ooooh so well and ended up in the mess begin with right?

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Which they admitted to, apologized and in turn, changed leadership roles. This time around, they carefully laid out there plan for all of us to see in one years time. You're forgetting the major difference between a year ago and now, a clear plan.

True. The same difference between (from what I've seen of old patch notes), that FFXI was also released in shoddy condition, and got better years later, we just missed the crappy part. I dont doubt FFXIV will be a great game, just like they turned FFXI around, and it was the first MMO I played. But, two crappy launches... You do have to wonder in the back of your mind, does SE really ever have a plan? I know its a business, and they want our money, so I know that part of the plan. Beyond that though...haha. I still have Crysta I bought over a year ago, so I guess I'll see a bit more of the changes before I make up my mind (or get deployed again >.<).

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Originally Posted by feint2021

Which they admitted to, apologized and in turn, changed leadership roles. This time around, they carefully laid out there plan for all of us to see in one years time. You're forgetting the major difference between a year ago and now, a clear plan.

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And there is also a difference, between Yoshida and Tanaka as well, See all the changes he made under his helm, I can say with confidence that we will make a Fantastic Ver 2.0 ( or whatever they are calling it... 2.0 sounds plain lol, Im sure they'll have something like Final Fantasy 14: Rebirth) ( or something after 14 :P).

Tanaka Vision was "ok" just executed poorly, When Yoshida came into the postion , things turn from Crap to gold and its only getting better. There lies the difference.

You want something to believe in Yoshida? Believe in the promises he kept and the Quality Patches that he's been dishing out. And with his team ( or at least him) pulling practically endless nights to make this game better shows he can and WILL pull this off!

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Originally Posted by Starlord

( or whatever they are calling it... 2.0 sounds plain lol, Im sure they'll have something like Final Fantasy 14: Rebirth) ( or something after 14 :P).

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Needs moar PHEONIX!

Pheonix was a wimp in XI stuck in that loser Tenzens sword...