So how exactly do Nin and Smn work?

I am wondering how these 2 work, Ninja I know little about, Smn I played but is only 41 atm and I heard that the expansion has messed with them a bit.

I am rather disillusioned with my bard atm and thinking of lving my Ninja or Smn up. Which of the 2 is easier to play and why? Do the smn pets still get wrecked by aoe's? Any useful tips?

Well, the gameplay of both is gigantically different... imo, SMN is way more complicated than NIN, but as a NIN main, this is pretty much biased.
However SMN is the very first job I ever actually needed macros for... too many buttons... unnecesary ones for the most of it... Im looking at you, egis ¬___¬

If you wanna keep your ranged life and have the currently most amazing AoE capabilities (at least animation wise), go SMN
If you rather chill out from lvl 1 to 53, go NIN

My Nin is 50 and not my main so I cannot speak on the new skills 50+.

Nin focuses on maintaining a few DoTs as well as a slashing debuff and the Trick Attack debuff when it's ready. They have a quick GCD thanks to the Huton buff that you want to always maintain and weave oGCD skills and Mudras between GCD attacks.

The way Mudras work:

You have 3 mudra "hand signs" that depending on the order/permutation you use them in will create different skills, one of them being your aforementioned Huton buff. Others range from your go to single target DMG skill, AoE, and ground targeted persistent AoE.

Your raid utility will involve Trick Attack's "increase damage taken by 10%" debuff that will obviously make all the DPS happy, your Slashing damage debuff (nin or war apply this), and your ability to use Goad which gives a party member a TP Regain buff.

Im a new player and new nin, ( first job 50), trying to finish my shiva story quests, all the way until now I have felt nin is very strong while leveling, my raitons were critting for 1.4k at lvl 45, and now with kassatsu I can double raiton right off the bat, (make sure huton is up first), I dont even want to play the new classes thats how much I like it.

Smn is easier to play, dot dot goose. Nin is a tad harder but it is really fun when played well (not standing in stuff, high dps, trick attack, goad)

both of these classes are wicked imo.

A protip (unless this has changed): In an AoE situation you can Kassatsu Doton and each tick will crit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

Im a new player and new nin, ( first job 50), trying to finish my shiva story quests, all the way until now I have felt nin is very strong while leveling, my raitons were critting for 1.4k at lvl 45, and now with kassatsu I can double raiton right off the bat, (make sure huton is up first), I dont even want to play the new classes thats how much I like it.

Smn is easier to play, dot dot goose. Nin is a tad harder but it is really fun when played well (not standing in stuff, high dps, trick attack, goad)

both of these classes are wicked imo.

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I don't see any possible way you are critting for that much at 45. I'm pretty darn well geared, almost all dungeon gear since I basically live in dungeons, and my Raiton at 44 crit for 450 max in a light party (once in a blue moon).

To the OP:

Ninja - Aside from the usual melee abilities (dots/debuff/direct damage), the trademark of a Ninja is its Mudras. Through leveling you will gain access to 3 different Mudras. Quickly combining different combinations of Mudras will allow you to cast Ninjutsu, which is essentially magic. Each ninjutsu serves a different purpose but there will be some you will be using more than any other such as:

Huton - A self-buff that increases your attack speed, maintained 24/7.
Suiton - Leads to Trick Attack, huge damage and makes target take 10% more damage.
Raiton - A powerful lightning strike to a single target.

So as a ninja you will be slashing away at your enemy while casting Ninjutsu for maximum DPS. Just a barebones description of the job. As for SMN, it's the job I play the least so I can't explain it :<

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

My raitons were critting for 1.4k at lvl 45, and now with kassatsu I can double raiton right off the bat, (make sure huton is up first)

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Just so you know, you shouldn't start with 2 Raitons by the time you Kassatsu (Level 50). Your first Ninjutsu should be Suiton which allows you to do Trick Attack (which can be used between attacks too) without being invisible.
Trick Attack makes the target take 10% more damage (from everyone), not to mention Trick Attack itself is a massive 400 potency attack. Then you can Kassatsu to reset the CD, and then Raiton (which now hits 10% harder on that target).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HeavensSword

A protip (unless this has changed): In an AoE situation you can Kassatsu Doton and each tick will crit.

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Yes, still works.
Too bad some Ninjas still use Doton for single target though.


To the OP:
Others explained pretty well.
I get the impression SMN is still a lot to micro manage. But they also seem super strong in Heavensward.
Ninja, while not necessarily that hard, has a lot to track as well and it's just a very active class due to its off gcd attacks and fast attack speed.

SMN has lot of juggle, if you don't use macro's anyway.
my rotation has me swapping between 2 hotbars (3 if you include the pet hotbar) but I'm used to it so I find it pretty easy, I find NIN much tougher, it's very fast and hectic and you've so many DOTs, Buffs, etc to keep an eye on.

I'm leveling NIN as a secondary because that's what my combat retainer is, but I'm terrible at the class and rarely played it pre-HW (just enough to get to 50). Still, despite being terrible at keeping up Huton, being terrible at keeping up DoTs, remembering to Trick Attack (and missing the positional sometimes), and getting some bunny ears because I haven't gotten down how lag affects mudras, I still do decent DPS. If aggro is an indication of DPS, I'm generally only ~20% down from the competent DPS on single targets. So, NIN is nice, even if you play it haphazardly and have no clue what you're doing xD

There's a fair amount to keep track of. There are three DoT/Debuffs with relatively short durations to maintain on your target, a self-buff to maintain, ~three oGCD attacks, ~three oGCD buffs, and a massive short-lived debuff that requires a positional. I haven't played MNK or DRG in a while, so I dunno how that measures up to the other melees in terms of complexity, but I find it pretty challenging right now. Should be easier once I get the hang of it.

The biggest difficulty I have right now with the class is figuring out which way mobs are facing when they're standing in the middle of all the flashy new skills x_x