Triad tournament reward structure is insane and should change

The current reward system for the Triple Triad tournament is insane, and needs to be changed. The tournament rules are also insane, but other posts have covered that more than adequately, so I'm just going to focus on the rewards.

1. Including functional rewards as card tournament rewards is a terrible idea.

Having functional, usable rewards for a card tournament means that the winners of previous tournaments will have an advantage over other players, making them more likely to win in the future. While the stats on Lightning, for example, are not great, presumably there will be some future collection size where unlimited 4-star decks are unlocked, and tournament winners (especially multiple card winners) will have an advantage reaching that tier.

In CCG tournaments, cards with unique functionality are virtually never given as tournament rewards. If cards with unique functionality at the top power tier in Magic: the Gathering were given out as tournament rewards, there would be a massive outcry from the player base, and the player base for Triple Triad should react the same way.

2. The Lightning card, and other tournament top three reward cards, are far too rare.

I'm fine with rare cards and hard-to-get cards. Raubahn was a chore, but satisfying to finally get. Cloud and the Sultana are - as other threads in this forum have covered - overpriced, but at least they have an obvious "progress meter". I haven't gotten lucky yet on Bartz or Terra. But ultimately, all of these rare, hard-to-get cards seem fine to me.

On the other hand, the Lightning card is currently so rare that it's actually quite possibly the most exclusive single item in the entire game at the moment. And that's completely unreasonable for a minigame-exclusive reward. Here are some comparisons:

Here's some napkin math from Reddit regarding turn 13 clears: http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...entage_of_the/. The math in that thread estimates 14-24,000 players have cleared T13 as of about a month ago. Obviously there are a lot of assumptions, but that number feels like it's at least in the ballpark.

On the other hand, there are 62 FFXIV servers, so we know the exact number of Lightning cards in existence: 186. This means that a random FFXIV player is probably at least 100 times more likely to have beaten the hardest boss in the entire game than to have Lightning.

The website xivsoul.com is doing automated scraping of Lodestone for statistical purposes. According to that site, over 7000 players own a fat cat, one of the most exclusive minions - and that only shows what the site has been able to scrape so far. A random FFXIV player is at least 30 times more likely to have a fat cat than to have Lightning.

Finally, for a throwback, here is some info on FFXI relic weapons in 2006: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Us...Stage_5_Relics. A FFXI player was about as likely to have a fully completed relic weapon in 2006 as a FFXIV player is to have a Lightning card.

As I said above, I'm fine with relatively rare, hard to get cards, but this is just ridiculous. When a card for a minigame - which was presumably added just to be a diversion - is rarer than all other content in the entire game, that is a design problem.

3. Concrete suggestions.

First, obviously, remove Lightning from the tournament top 3 rewards. The huge MGP payout is enough motivation for the tournament on its own. If you really need to have some special item as a carrot for the tournament, add something strictly cosmetic like the Cactpot top prize has. Personally, I'd like a top hat. :D

If you still want the cards to be attained through the tournament, there are a lot of options that are far less insane than the status quo. They could be participation rewards. They could be achievement rewards for participating in "The Manderville cup 5 times", or something similar. They could be rewards for finishing the tournament with a 15/15 record. There are a lot of options here that don't lead to these cards being rarer than 99.99% of all content in all MMOs ever.

Finally: In case this post comes off sounding like sour grapes, in my specific case it's not, unless it's sour grapes on behalf of my friends and fellow players, as I actually have Lightning. The fact is that the requirements for getting Lightning - and for getting Cecil, and presumably also Firion and Tidus - are crazy as hell, unfair to the huge majority of players, and should change.

The reward structure is perfectly fine. Paying gil to acquire said rewards is not.

Citation:

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According to that site, over 7000 players own a fat cat, one of the most exclusive minions

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Fat Cat is not at all one of the most exclusive, I don't know what you were thinking when using that example. Pleased it.

Puff of Darkness - WoD Drop, roll against, usually, 23 other players.
Assassin Fry - Desynth a big fish to hope to get one
Nutkin - for some it was a first unhidden map drop, for me, it never dropped with over 150 maps done, I ended up buying one on the market board
Fledgeling Apkallu - just over half as many as the Fat Cat, own this Apkallu, because lets be honest, the sightseeing log is a pain to complete, I've done it and I will do the one we'll most likely get in Heavensward, but I wouldnt do it a second time on another character, god no.


But I would think those 4 are much rarer than the Fat Cat

Sure, not everyone has a FSH Retainer to get the Fat Cat, but I've gotten 2 so far.

That site doesn't track Puff yet, so I couldn't use it for the example. But I did check first, and I would have preferred to use Puff if stats for it were available. Same with Onion Knight and nutkin. I don't think it's unfair to say fat cat is in the top 10 rare non-promo minions either way.

In any case, I was just trying to come up with a few examples to give an idea of how hideously, unreasonably rare Lightning and friends are relative to essentially all other content in the game. I don't think the specific examples are that important, since Lightning beats all of them.

I agree with Shinun. To be clear, I'm not speaking out against players that are paying gil to get others to throw tournament matches. I instead strongly encourage developers to change the way tournament PvP matches work to use Duty Finder or something that prevents you from personally selecting your human opponent.

I agree wholeheartedly with OP. Making the reward a functionally unique item was a pretty amateur move.

To Shinun and others who think the tournament rules need to change, I totally agree. They definitely do need to change.

What I'm trying to point out in this thread is that even if those rules change, Lightning's ridiculous rarity and the fact that it is a functional card reward are still problems.

I would have assumed Square had a method to spread out the tournament wins, either through rule changes, or not allowing people to get duplicates, but this is the team that baffingly thought the TT tournament structure they gave us was ready for consumer use, so I suppose I will agree with OP. It should be too early to determine how they will handle it, but I think expecting something lackluster, and only through fan feedback becoming good months later, is going to be the end result.

Although perhaps it is secretly brilliant. By making it so only cheaters get this card, if you're attempting to be a card completionist, you will need to network shady deals with other players, and suddenly the Triple Triad community is booming with communication between players, more than any other group in FFXIV. Truly visionary.

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Envoyé par Aenea

To Shinun and others who think the tournament rules need to change, I totally agree. They definitely do need to change.

What I'm trying to point out in this thread is that even if those rules change, Lightning's ridiculous rarity and the fact that it is a functional card reward are still problems.

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It's not a problem. Having Tournament only cards is a very good thing. Their functionality isn't that much with how many 5 star cards their are. Until they release an achievement for raising the deck customization that demands you have these tournament cards it's not a problem. Having them ease the grind for your next achievement buffer is fine. Now, if a Tourny card is OP then ya it's a problem. But as it is their just flavor cards more wanted by collectors then their actual playability. Which is why they need to fix the way the tournaments are structured then the rewards.

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Envoyé par Shinun

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I don't really disagree with you much. Yes, if the rules were fixed and the rewards were distributed fairly, I wouldn't feel as bad about it as I do now.

I think one of the things for me is that the Lightning card is part of a collection. There are 80 possible cards to collect—a set, even number that everyone passionate about TT should be able to achieve. It just irks me that I may forever have 4 blank spots in my card binder. Even if those cards are not game-changers in terms of their power (although with the random rule they very well could be), they are unique items I would like to use in my decks and play around with.

Of course, we don't know what SE will do in the future. They may make these cards available through MGP in future patches, once more cards are added. Still, right now, especially considering the recent fiasco, I am displeased.