Yoshida did not make this game pay-to-win. The players did. *NOT a cash shop thread*

I'm talking about the groups who are selling clears for gil, not the cash shop items.

Obviously it's possible for gil to be obtained through approved and unapproved non gameplay methods but there are enough threads about that, let's assume here that all gil involved was generated through fair and legitimate gameplay.

Now, this type of interaction is not considered "pay to win" as defined since no real money changes hands. In fact, requiring trading and interaction between different classes is part of the design of nearly every MMO.

So why did I clickbait the topic thread with "pay to win"? Because in all the debates about cash pay to win, which occasionally mention that you can buy clears, it is rarely mentioned who is selling access to thos content, for in-game currency, 100% ToS compliant and mostly accepted by other players. There are by far more ads being reposted every day in PF selling turns and primals than I have ever seen offering EB bracelets. Titan for sale. Leviathan for sale. Turns 1-9 for sale.

Personally, this doesn't bother me. It's the rumors that some players are having to pay for clears to get rid of the 100 soldiery bonus message that seems ridiculous.

You're a pretty good Dragoon. Got i130 gear, high DPS, the daily roulettes are a piece of cake for you. You try to join a static for FCoB though... the "One or more players are new..." bonus message comes up, and you get votekicked!

But... you've got three star crafters, and RNGesus your guardian Byregot has been looking kindly upon you. You find one unspoiled mining node after another, and successfully meld tier IV materia four times in a row! All you have to do now is pay up some gil, and a carry from BCoB to SCoB all the way through FCoB is all yours.

And finally, that shameful bonus will be gone.

Pay Gil to Win!

Oh... I see the sales of Eternal Bond ceremony invitations have started in earnest today.

Because mention "Real life money" and "In game currency" in the same sentence and people just lose their minds. Fact.

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Originally Posted by Kaes

I'm talking about the groups who are selling clears for gil, not the cash shop items.

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Aren't such groups only really around because the developers insisted on a simplistic system for just about everything?

Since beta I've seen hundreds of threads asking for more complexity in class and fight mechanics, and they always get met with the same "That would be too complex for players" style of response. Honestly, when you make a game with very little complexity, it's just begging for people to be carried through it. I think the root of the problem is the developers "Let everyone reach max level really easily" mentality. When you can reach Coil by doing nothing but spamming AoE in FATEs of course you're going to have people who can barely function in endgame content and then look to buy wins...

The problem isn't even always that people can't do the content, it's that they cannot find people willing to even let them even experience it because they've never beaten it before. It's like the job market only looking for people with experience and passing over people with the skills but no experience denying them the chance to even get the experience employers are looking for. Same concept and just as unfair. I'm an ilvl 112 WHM and I can't do static raids because I work shiftwork, so having a set time to meet every week to raid isn't possible for me. And DF and PF both fail so hard to be able to get past Turn 5 because even if they give it a chance, someone bails after 2 wipes, not letting people get any real experience and not getting through.The content needs a close knit group that knows the ins and outs of it to be completed, so for those people that cannot be part of such a group and then random in with players that are looking for things to be easy, and bailing when it's not... It just makes it impossible.

The reason I like this game is because most content is completeable alone or with random groups. The Coils are designed for people looking for a challenge and I accept that, but I really just want to complete it for the story more so than anything, but I don't just want to be "carried". I don't want to give into that paying for carries because I have dreams for my little FC to have a large house and we're making steady progress and are maybe 6million from our goal. Still the player-based economy can be pretty ridiculous.

Agree, paying to get carried through content is pay to win.

1) It promotes lazy players using lazy methods to obtain Gil to pay for clears (aka buying gil from asfdfsd)
2) IF players are just unable to find other players, make your own LS/PF/FC. With how many post they are able to clear to 1-2%, why don't they party up and clear stuff?
3) If gives a false number on players able to clear the content due to being carried for Gil.

The best is why bother playing when you just pay someone else to play the game for you?

Content selling against ToS or riot! :P

you have the choice between "pay to win" and "be good to win"

if you remove #1 and can't do #2 you're still not going to get your clears. what exactly are you hoping to accomplish

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Agree, paying to get carried through content is pay to win.

The best is why bother playing when you just pay someone else to play the game for you?

Content selling against ToS or riot! :P

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Most of the time this statement is subjective, people pay for their subs and therefore, their vision of "why do I bother to play" differs from yours drastically; how you think people should play the game can be different to what they think is the best use of their time and their money.
With that aside, I do think its stupid to pay for carries but I can't really question why they bother to play the game if they pay for a win, because it is not my right and is condescending

Its as Terrini said player greed is the cause,I'll use myself as an example.
I am Stuck on T9 (Had issues before the nerf and even so now 10% echo aint cutting it)I work full time and I am a Full-time College student so I dont always have the time to offer for a Static. I try to make a Progression PF but those can be Hit or miss.
DF is out of the question since everyone likes to ignore mechanics. Shady people try to offer me a carry, which I always decline but they try to charge 5mil Gill or more. Which brings me to my next point.Players who have 5million gil most likely have nothing to do with T9 or carries in general and are doing other things, The"casual" players that they try to market to cant afford such inflated prices and this is where the RMT comes in and try to sell Gil to those players.The Greed of players is what is poisoning the community.

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Originally Posted by Khiry

try to charge 5mil Gill or more.

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Transfer to gilgamesh and I'll sell you a clear for 3mil. ;D

After failing to complete T5 for almost 1/2 a year I put some effort into my crafters and SBonding. I bought a T5 carry.

I wasn't proud of it but I just couldn't stand the shame of still not having it completed. I am not a bad player because I regularly farm Levi and Ramuh Ex and am working on Shiva Ex.

I'm just shy and have trouble making friends. :(

http://media.giphy.com/media/NPUqgb8UE2iw8/giphy.gif
http://media.giphy.com/media/uCeC6zBklAwgM/giphy.gif

I just need some friends that are as passionate as me.