Warriors & Paladin MT's

Let me start off by first saying I\\'m not professional world first server downs or the guy who says warriors or paladins are better at Mt then the other. However, how can a paladin call himself MT if I as a warrior can pull hate off of him with just a simple 3 skill rotation? Shouldn\\'t MT hold aggro? Example I\\'m in ST and there is this paladin who keeps spamming how he wants to MT ok fine right I turn off def. And yet I STILL pull aggro off of him. He then claims I was focusing on the boss and need to watch my aggro table.....really dude. I mean come on dude am I looking at this wrong or should I really auto attack when the paladin starts to lose the aggro to me? I don\\'t know I always thought MT\\'S should hold aggro. I mean if I left def on the paladin doesn\\'t have a chance to hold onto it but with it turned off? I\\'M CONFUSED

Use SE -> Fracture -> SP. Shouldn't be able to pull off with that. If you're opening with BB, don't. MT shouldn't lose aggro but pulling off him will cause more chaos than just throttling your DPS a bit.

A Warrior trying to pull aggro off a Paladin will pull aggro. Usually that's accounting for Unchained, but you had Defiance off. More than likely you had a crit BB while Berserked.

Typical OT rotation would have Defiance off, and going SE -> BB (possible Fracture kept up), using Berserk and maybe a Defiance - Infuriate - Inner Beast near end... that shouldn't pull off a Paladin trying to hold aggro.

Excessive use of BB (like SE - BB - BB) could pull off though

As for 8 man content with a Warrior and a Paladin.. it can be difficult to keep up SE and SP (if it's needed) as MT when a Paladin is spamming Rage of Halone. Warrior OT can generate low threat at times, and then go nuts with the SE - BB when they know it's safe.

I think warriors Butchers Block combo builds more enmity than Paladins Rage of Halone combo because a warrior needs some cushion for when they decide to use storms eye/ storms path comboes.

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Originally Posted by Keltraeng

Let me start off by first saying I\\'m not professional world first server downs or the guy who says warriors or paladins are better at Mt then the other. However, how can a paladin call himself MT if I as a warrior can pull hate off of him with just a simple 3 skill rotation?

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The 3 skill rotation thing might be your problem. Sounds like you're using 123 123 123 with Berserk, which will probably pull from PLD initially. As mentioned above use SE > Fracture > BB or SE > Fracture > SP as OT.

It's easy to purposely pull hate off a MT. It takes a better tank to not do that. If you are hitting the enemy with nothing but enmity combos, that's no good either.

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Originally Posted by Abbul_Stonecleaver

A Warrior trying to pull aggro off a Paladin will pull aggro. Usually that's accounting for Unchained, but you had Defiance off. More than likely you had a crit BB while Berserked.

Typical OT rotation would have Defiance off, and going SE -> BB (possible Fracture kept up), using Berserk and maybe a Defiance - Infuriate - Inner Beast near end... that shouldn't pull off a Paladin trying to hold aggro.

Excessive use of BB (like SE - BB - BB) could pull off though

As for 8 man content with a Warrior and a Paladin.. it can be difficult to keep up SE and SP (if it's needed) as MT when a Paladin is spamming Rage of Halone. Warrior OT can generate low threat at times, and then go nuts with the SE - BB when they know it's safe.

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OT just shouldn't use BB at all unless it's a burn phase you *need* SE>BB (not se>bb>bb) for that minor extra DPS. The SP debuff makes everyone's lives easier.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

OT just shouldn't use BB at all unless it's a burn phase you *need* SE>BB (not se>bb>bb) for that minor extra DPS. The SP debuff makes everyone's lives easier.

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I never said to use SE - BB - BB. That was mentioned when I said "excessive use of BB."

I'm of the opinion SP is only useful during times of high damage. I pretty much only use it for FCoB and Shiva if I'm OT. If there was a Warrior OT in T9 I could see him using SP though.

I only use SP in last phase of T10, but I use it throughout T11.

If healers aren't going to have a hard time, I'd rather just push phases faster/ clear faster. In which case I will use SE - BB as OT, and use Fracture sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Abbul_Stonecleaver

I never said to use SE - BB - BB. That was mentioned when I said "excessive use of BB."

I'm of the opinion SP is only useful during times of high damage. I pretty much only use it for FCoB and Shiva if I'm OT. If there was a Warrior OT in T9 I could see him using SP though.

I only use SP in last phase of T10, but I use it throughout T11.

If healers aren't going to have a hard time, I'd rather just push phases faster/ clear faster. In which case I will use SE - BB as OT, and use Fracture sometimes.

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SE>BB + Frac is like a 2-3% damage increase over SE>SP + Frac. I don't know how much faster 2-3% of an OT's damage is really going to be pushing phases faster. Still think -10% raid damage is better in most situations.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

SE>BB + Frac is like a 2-3% damage increase over SE>SP + Frac. I don't know how much faster 2-3% of an OT's damage is really going to be pushing phases faster. Still think -10% raid damage is better in most situations.

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I did one test before the servers went down and I pegged it at about 20 DPS difference in my STR gear (i110 weapon though). Over a long enough fight it can certainly shine through, especially when many groups are or were pushing 4 Bennus in T12 by only a couple seconds.