A fundamental flaw with FL (and PvP in general)

So after playing a lot of Frontlines, I finally think I realized what's really wrong here. What really isn't making sense.

The problem is that the devs carried over the potencies of DPS skills and Heal spells from PvE, but that wasn't the smartest thing to do.

Why? Because the heals in this game are based off of burst healing attacks that do 6k+ DMG. Like a Death Sentence or something. The DPS potencies are balanced around fighting a boss consistently for 10+ minutes straight.

This is why 3+ healers just nullifies anything right now. The Heals are based off PvE and raids, not PvP. WHM shouldn't have to have more than 4 people on them (ESPECIALLY with their CC and peel and other support skills) to go down.

Has anyone else kinda realized that the potencies of DPS and Heals make 0 sense in PvP? Just look at the scoreboard. The healers are healing 200k, the average damage of Tanks and DPS is like what? 30-45kish?

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Originally Posted by Jubez187

This is why 3+ healers just nullifies anything right now.Has anyone else kinda realized that the potencies of DPS and Heals make 0 sense in PvP? Just look at the scoreboard. The healers are healing 200k, the average damage of Tanks and DPS is like what? 30-45kish?

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no 3 healers does not nullify anything right now. i've been in games with 3 healers and they kept getting nuked every single time, two WHMS and a SCH. in fact, i asked the alliance that did have the 3 healers, why they kept wiping, it was because they were getting focused. so no, 3 healers doesn't mean jack. they can die just like everything else, its just that your team isn't doing it right. people making these wild claims about healing being too much are forgetting there is more going on in the background than you are paying attention to as to why you aren't able to kill a healer right off rip.the healer is kiting, the healer is also getting Cover and Testudo from PLDs on their teams, enemies on the healer are also getting stunned, the healer is also getting shields that absorbs damage so they can keep healing, YOU and your henchmen are also getting debuffed with Eye for an Eye so you're doing less damage, and I haven't even gotten to the healer's Benediction and Attunement yet.

there is more going on behind the scenes than are you are noticing so its giving you the illusion that healers are invincible. healers staying alive aren't doing it alone with an "S" on their chests. sometimes i end up solo healing bases and don't die all while not losing the flag. is it because of my heals? no, its because i'm kiting a gang of melee all over the base and los'ing behind walls until my team can kill them. if i run into trouble, i call out for a PLD to Testudo or Cover me. so what does this do? it gives the enemy team the illusion that i'm Superman because i didn't die.

next thing people will be crying about is that devs should chop off healers' legs to make them paraplegics so we can't kite.

p.s. the scoreboard isn't accurate in damage and heals because it counts overhealing, doesn't count damage absorptions and also counts LB damage. if you ever get in a clusterfuck (long fight at one base) that is when you will see healing upwards from 200k or even as high as 500k+ because the healer was there for a long time spamming Medica IIs.

p.s.s. i knew it would just be a matter of time before someone complains about healers again even after the last patch. SCHs just got a nerf in that patch, so if you still can't kill us, then the problem is your team, not us. you got Glory Slash, use it. don't roll with pugs if it matters that much to you.

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Originally Posted by Gor

p.s.s. i knew it would just be a matter of time before someone complains about healers again even after the last patch. SCHs just got a nerf in that patch, so if you still can't kill us, then the problem is your team, not us. you got Glory Slash, use it. don't roll with pugs if it matters that much to you.

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I Agree with this... people expecting healers to be easy to kill and be defenseless.. If Multi people are taking damage and a healer is there spamming of course the healing numbers will go up...

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Originally Posted by Jubez187

Has anyone else kinda realized that the potencies of DPS and Heals make 0 sense in PvP? Just look at the scoreboard. The healers are healing 200k, the average damage of Tanks and DPS is like what? 30-45kish?

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I can tell you this, if the 4 people that are beating on a healer and using stuns,binds etc all at once it can make a healer immune to it all.. Healers ALSO GET PVP SKILLS TO HELP THEM SURVIVE. Maybe... just maybe if you didn't go into FL with people who don't follow directions or like to work as a team you can kill a healer or 2. But don't expect us to just be easy to kill and defenseless on top of that you seem to not be happy that the 4 healers had team mates that actually helped them and did what they had to do to keep their healers alive. It is exactly why I hardly ever do FL anymore unless I'm going in with a group. There are too many ppl who just want to focus on kills and damage instead of playing as a team.

There's really nothing wrong or difficult with dealing with 3, even 4 healers. Dealing with 5+ though in a single party, then the problem still isn't with killing them, it's with dominion-style gametype. The solution: don't fight them. Cap something else.

Otherwise, healing is just fine. Stacking them just happens to be great for holding a single location. Please don't turn this into another "healers are OP" thread. It's been done, it's been tapped, and it's time to move on.

What's so funny to me about these people that think healers are OP and need to be nerfed somehow, is this . . . do you think they even realize for one second that nerfing healers would negatively affect themselves as well? Probably not.

Guess what, you nerf healers, you also nerf the healers that are healing you. End result you die a lot more often.

Not to mention the fact that there are plenty of ways DPS and tanks have to deal with healers. Like, maybe the fact that EVERY single attack interrupts us. There's even times with Surecast that I get interrupted.

There are people in FL who make player vs player encounters easy.....then there are those that turn a simple encounter into a keyboard to window event.

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Originally Posted by Jubez187

The problem is that the devs carried over the potencies of DPS skills and Heal spells from PvE, but that wasn't the smartest thing to do.

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The development already aware of healing potency > dps potency issue and that is the reason why MNK and DRG get a buff in 2.35. This is their attempt to resolve this issue without an impact on PvE. They gave DRG a direct dps potency buff and gave MNK an improved tool to remove passive HoT. We will have to wait for one more patch to see what will happen next.

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Originally Posted by Gor

you got Glory Slash, use it.

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Yea, Glory Slash. It MIGHT take off your Aether Flow, but it's most likely going to take off your Protect or something useless. ALSO, it's going to knock you away from me, so there's some time to run away and heal.


Nothing that is being said actually addresses my point though. It is a FACT that these heals are meant to burst heal Tanks back to 100% after taking big hits from raid bosses. That is an indisputable fact. DPS is not meant to "burst" especially with a long GCD. And for the people who say "oh you want healers to die in 1 shot blah blah" I don't want healers to die in one shot, but if they weren't as self sufficient, then there would be DECISION POINTS as to whether peel for your healers or lock down theirs. I have NEVER seen another Tank try to thwart my attempts on killing a healer. To be honestly, Healers have more survivability than Tanks do. If you had to choose whether to kill or protect, I think FL would be a much healthier experience.