Urianger is the Scion I like the least specifically due to his duplicity. I'm frequently reminded of that old saying, "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me." We're long past that to now accepting this as an immutable quality of his character and I'm not okay with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpectrePhantasia
It irritates me to no end how Aymeric throws Ishgard into every Eorzean conflict now as some sort of reparation, particularly as if he owes it to my WoL. I keep wanting to remind him that I was a refugee, forced to flee due to being framed for regicide. I was not acting as a representative of the Alliance during the Dragonsong War, in fact, I was irked at the treaty signing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyborne
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04-20-2022, 06:24 AMRulakir
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04-20-2022, 09:37 AMNilroreoI'm not convinced that this is ever going to happen, as it would require the devs to acknowledge there is a problem with her in the first place which they made it clear they themselves don't agree there is. When they tell us that "Hydaelyn is not the bad guy," I have no choice but to take them at their word and trust that they genuinely believe that to be the case, just as I would if a character in game unironically believed 1+1=3.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucida3b
The Ancients believed the world they cultivated to be perfect when in reality it was just as flawed as ours, but the game expects us to hyper fixate on their use of the word "perfect" and consider it symptomatic of inevitable nihilistic self destruction. It shows us the Plenty which exhibited superficial similarities to them and expects us to treat that as definitive proof that they were a lost cause. It treats their desire to desperately hold on to the world they knew as its forcibly pulled from their grasp as unnatural inhuman behavior that needs to be expunged. This is what the game WANTS us to believe and the values the developers themselves seem to hold.
On another thread, It was argued that because G'raha had no intention of enjoying the fruit of his labor and had expected to be erased alongside his original timeline at the end of ShB, that his actions stand in contrast to that of the ancients who attempt to restore their world for their own benefit by sacrificing innocent lives, conveniently side stepping the fact that G'raha's body count would've been astronomically higher. The mere fact that he wouldn't've been around to see the world he longed for is being treated as justification to exonerate him of his actions in the event that things had actually gone his way. It's ok that he threatened to end the lives of everyone from his world because he never would've personally benefit from it anyways. But the game never brings attention to any of this, so I have no choice but to assume the devs want me to consider his actions here to be purely altruistic and not delve any deeper.
Hydaelyn's actions are treated similarly. Her abandonment of her own people leaving them scrambling for a solution in ignorance results in the creation of Zodiark as a being designed SPECIFICALLY to shield the planet from dynamis. I personally fail to see how they would've been expected to discern the true nature of the final days on their own other than at best the method by which it targeted them. Zodiark's capability for combating the calamity was limited to shielding the planet, but this limitation was somehow ultimately their fault and attributed to any number of flaws within their society instead of... yknow... the fact that one of their own held the truth a little too close to their chest. Either way, the game has already decided they were a problem and needed to go.
As decided by Hydaelyn, they along with 7 worlds needed to die in order for us to reach a conclusion to this story, But Hydaelyn is not the bad guy so this will never be addressed. It attempts to justify all those deaths by convincing us the sundered are inherently better than the ancients for their ability to overcome despair, ignoring the fact that this quality never plays a role in our discovery of the true nature of the final days and that Etheirys and the remaining shards would've died had the WoL taken after their new best friend and simply withheld the truth from the world... But Hydaelyn is not the bad guy so this will never be addressed.
What all this tells me is that the game operates under the belief that anyone can be absolved of their crimes as long as they claim to feel bad about their actions and/or they never expected to benefit from their own actions in the first place. Words (And developer intent) are taking precedence over actions, and I've yet to see any criticism of our heroes from the devs, so its safe to assume they genuinely don't agree there's anything worth fixing. -
04-20-2022, 09:52 AMHeavenchild
I liked the EW Story a lot. Just the story around Zenos didn't make much sense to me.
But all in all I really enjoyed EW. :D -
04-20-2022, 10:32 AMMellowMink
I quite liked the story a hecking lot actually, so to each their own.
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04-20-2022, 10:52 AMCachMost Scions would have been better served by pulling a Lyse and taken 2 steps to the side. I would have been more than ok with Thancred dying in ShB to finish his arc, for example. But I guess the JRPG party death quota is already full. I could barely contain my eyes from rolling every time Ultima Thule tried to fake death a Scion. Yeah game, sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpectrePhantasia
I'm hoping we swerve away from the almost Whedon-esque style. Don't get me wrong, levity is okay, specially after a lot of heavy stuff has ended. But 6.1's tone was all over the place. -
04-20-2022, 11:36 AMTheodric
The way in which Lyse was handled is pretty decent all things considered. She didn't fade into complete obscurity and she shows up every now and then whenever Ala Mhigo is of relevance...but for the most part, she's taking a backseat. If nothing else, the game is meant to serve a broad variety of tastes and on that basis alone we desperately need more variety and conflict amongst the major characters.
As it stands, ever character just seems to end up completely on board with whatever the player character and Scions suggest. Even when something they intend to do is exceedingly risky or controversial. I would not have enjoyed FFIX as much as I did if there weren't entire story arcs involving friendships and rivalries between the various characters. Of which, Steiner is the most prominent. By the end of the game there's a mutual respect for each other but for most of the game Steiner really dislikes Zidane and the feeling is mutual. Steiner isn't just there to be a hate sink or attack everyone, though. He cares about Garnet (since protecting her is his sworn duty) and he has respect for Vivi based on the little guy's mastery over magic.
I really hope that we're not set for another decade of the Scions being front and centre. Rebranding them as the 'Students of Baldesion' doesn't help much if the 'new' characters are just going to think and behave in the exact same manner as those we interact with already.
I don't have anything against Y'shtola, personally, though I do hope the eventual inevitable return to the First will result in her deciding to stay with Runar. Alisae and Alphinaud, once they've done their part in restoring Garlemald, are in a prime position to just go and live peacefully with their mother and father in Sharlayan.
I just hope that the writers don't just decide to write off characters as potential companions just because they aren't as popular as the likes of G'raha or Estinien. -
04-20-2022, 09:48 PMKurohNeko
1. I agree with the Zodiark one. Should have been a wayyyy bigger deal.
2. The Fermi's Paradox with a dead space answer is hardly lackluster. And makes me questions ones intelligence for not finding really entertaining and interesting considering the magic fantasy game actually did something unique and have aliens and real world philosophical questions beyond the normie level of good vs evil in it.
3. She avoided the mind-wipe if you were paying attention. Literally the only one who did. Hence her actions and foreshadowing to the protag.
She sundered the world and did what she did because she couldn't mobilize the ancients. Tried with her speech, they didn't listen. The ancients also lacked a strong amount of Dyanmis as it was said that it's basically anti-matter to aether and the only reason team protag and modern man can use it well is due to their souls being fragmented and having a higher level of Dynamis. -
04-20-2022, 09:51 PMaveyond-dreams
The post Elpis cutscene is not reflective of actual events. To be fair, it is unlikely anyone would have believed her preaching doom about a rogue bird that went off into space because the plot surrounding Meteion and Hermes is just too ridiculous to be taken seriously.
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04-21-2022, 12:46 AMPawPawConsidering they go out of their way to make a cutscene showing us precisely how easy it is for anyone of that time to review events of the past and see the truth for themselves, I'd say getting people to believe her is a nonissue.Quote:
Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams
Um, she never tried to mobilize the Ancients, as we are told on several occasions by several different Ancients that no one knew the cause of the Final Days. This includes Emet-Selch, Elidibus and her very own ally, the Watcher on the Moon. She kept the truth from the greatest minds of the time and the leaders of the world. And remind me why everyone needed to be sundered fourteen times when every single person who "defeated" Meteion was at minimum 8/14 except for the two that were 9/14? Oh I know, it's because she needed those extra worlds to serve as fodder for the creation of her champion. No one here was not paying attention.Quote:
Originally Posted by KurohNeko
ETA: And as aveyond said above, nothing from that cringe music video was indicative of actual events. -
04-21-2022, 12:53 AMaveyond-dreamsOk, that gives her even less excuse for her failure.Quote:
Originally Posted by PawPaw
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04-21-2022, 01:12 AMmyahele
Due to time travel Venat had to allow events to play the same way as WoL told her :rolleyes:
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04-21-2022, 01:18 AMSkyborne
Considering that codex entry, it does seem like the devs fully intended for us to take that as a stylized rendition of the actual events... no matter how biased and eyebrow-raising it all is. The writers truly, fully believe that it's the right idea to push and they seemed confused about why some wouldn't accept it, as shown by the Q&A. Do not question it, citizen.
Luckily, to quote a certain funny clown, we are sovereign individuals and can disagree with or reject the writer's morals or the way they were told to our heart's content. I can agree with the themes/morals... the way it was presented? Absolute trainwreck. -
04-21-2022, 01:22 AMPawPawYep, and that's what makes the fact that she didn't emerge from the bushes behind her goofy dog to march Emet-Selch and Hythlodaeus back up to Poiten Oikos to recall their arrival with us, the conversation where we do the stupidest thing possible as time travelers and tell everyone in detail about their futures, the scene where the Meteia are let loose and the confrontation with Hermes even more absurd.Quote:
Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams
When this was a major driving force behind the entirety of the last expansion pack, you'll have to forgive me for having doubts when I am suddenly told that fixed time loops are now the only possible way forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by myahele
https://i.imgur.com/XBKOdFm.jpg -
04-21-2022, 01:27 AMPawPawI mean...it's not though. The Final Days had been stopped and the world had been restored before the Sundering. There was no fiery Amaurot for her to slowly walk through on her way to chastise a faceless group of people after she'd allowed 75% of the population to be sacrificed. I'd say the only part of that nonsense that could have been accurate was Emet-Selch saying goodbye to Hythlodaeus and Hermes being emo and staring at the sky. I am sure they are trying to double down on this idea of the pure, good, goddess now by writing flowery prose about her actions in retrospect but I have eyes of my own and I 'member.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyborne
Curious, since they've doubled down on that being canonical how will they explain her loyal followers seemingly not being aware that summoning Hydaelyn would kill them all body and soul? As others have mentioned before, they speak as though they will be going on after she is gone and lament her not being there to lead them. Guess we'll never know!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lauront
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04-21-2022, 01:28 AMcooker
Do we know the timeline between our visit to Elpis/Meteion's turn and the Final Days? I figured that Meteion wouldn't wait all that long before triggering it. Honestly, with her goal as it was, it seems like she should have just triggered it right away, I don't think she had to go store up dynamis or anything.
(Though I assume they wouldn't want to do that since they want you to be able to go back and do stuff in Elpis pre-Final Days, but maybe the Pandemonium raid line will touch on it in the end) -
04-21-2022, 01:42 AMPawPawI don't think we know for sure. Meteion says something about going to the edge of the Universe to build her nest and hoard despair, but that's all we've got as far as her plans directly after her escape. I don't think we have a timeline for Pandemonium either, as in are we there before or after the events in Elpis with Hermes? We could assume that it's after since Themis mentions Azem being aware of us but since we are still unaware of how Azem manages to know everything we do before we do it, that might not mean anything either. Hopefully we'll find out in the end, as you said.Quote:
Originally Posted by cooker
ETA: I still want to know how we were able to use the same portal that we used the first time we traveled to Elpis which hadn't been changed in any way, but managed to arrive correctly sized and completely visible this time. Not to mention the portal dropping us in a completely different location from the one the original let us out in. -
04-21-2022, 01:50 AMLaurontOthers have addressed the remaining points well, but on this one, I don't see what a lack of intelligence has to do with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by KurohNeko
My issue with it isn't even that they involved aliens, as we already knew of the dragons and Omega's creators, and that events had resulted in the ruination of both their worlds, although we were never quite told what. I would've very much liked some tale of cosmic horror threading these worlds' tale of misfortune...
Where it utterly fell apart for me was the highly caricatured view of these very sophisticated civilisations. One just decides to collectively sit around and then kill themselves because they couldn't figure out ways to entertain or amuse themselves or stimulate their brains and apparently not once pondered such issues. I guess we're good then, since we have gaming consoles and the like to gobble up our time... The game was also trying very hard to nudge me into seeing them as the ancients' fate, because "look! they're dressed the same, and they have butterflies and pretty fields, so it's totally the same!", when the Elpis quests/sidequests paint a very different picture of them, as does what we know of them from Amaurot, and their commitment to debate and philosophical pondering. Then we have the Ea, a civilisation spanning multiple stars, where they lose their wits at dealing with a problem that would only eventually impact them (and for all we know, is potentially solvable), and go all "guess I'll just die then"... which Y'shtola just shrugs her shoulders at. Being immortal doesn't prevent you from doing that. The idea of perfection they present is nonsensical, because it isn't truly perfection in the sense that the form of it they attain (and again, the plausibility here is being stretched very thin) is just a shift to other forms of strife.
Then we go to worlds one and two in the Dead Ends, which were scarcely "perfect" in any way, and really failed to make the point the dungeon was trying very hard at that stage to convince you of; the only world that I think succeeded to some degree was the Dragonstar's destruction, because it was a blissful world, destroyed for totally irrational reasons that unwound the Omicrons as well as a civilisation. Those two depictions I thought succeeded to some degree in pushing a viewpoint of why one might fall to nihilism, because that was truly a tale of senseless and heart-wrenching destruction, but even so, Midgardsormr did not succumb to despair. The other worlds collectively just reminded me of some of the more cartoonish aspects of ARR beast tribes (including the Omicrons, really), trying to pose as dEeP pHilOsOpHy.
Worst of all, the same perfectionist impetus exists in the sundered too, with their commitment to reducing misery, epitomised by the Scions and their usual saying of "brighter tomorrow".
I'm afraid it's not one's intelligence that is up for question if they don't like this plot, but the degree to which the writers thought they could get away with insulting it.
Even if they had intended it to be, they reaffirmed during the Q&A that the Anamnesis scene with her followers is canonical, which obliterates any notion that that post-Elpis scene is in any way accurate to the events in its totality. I think what Skyborne is getting at, though, is they're attempting a sleight of hand where, if you don't think hard enough, that's all there is to the tale.Quote:
Originally Posted by PawPaw
Acceptable costs to her, I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by PawPaw
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04-21-2022, 05:11 AMSpectrePhantasia
You know, having sat on our collective criticisms for a good long while now since December, all I can really do now is wonder "What happened?" Natsuko Ishikawa has displayed very competent writing skills with her work on both the Shadowbringers MSQ and Dark Knight questlines. I understand not everyone was a fan of the fact that her writing was often more emotionally charged and leaned into that, but I don't believe it had ever been as egregious as it became in Endwalker (being literally emotionally charged with Dynamis as a concept, oh my god).
The writing in those previous quests posed complicated ethical and moral questions and above all else, made it apparent these things had more than one side to them. Especially with the Ancients, no one was 'correct,' it was just different people having different beliefs on how best to save and preserve their world. And then there was Emet-selch, a man who'd lived through a society that simply didn't have the human vices that led to endless conflict, death and misery, and it makes you wonder 'can we really blame this guy for thinking this way?' It was heartwrenching, I would even go so far as to say that, at the end of 5.0, it was profound.
And then Endwalker retroactively spat in it's face and worked to shatter everything its predecessor built up by going "actually the Sundered are just better" and trying to paint it like the original people were arrogant bliss-obsessed idiots instead of the scholarly gentle people we knew them to be, And of course, the person responsible for their eradication was the only one who knew the truth, and is just absolutely vindicated by being RIGHT.
It genuinely is so baffling that I almost refuse to believe they are written by the same person. I can only assume people higher up the food chain muddied these waters somehow, it's that insane to me. -
04-21-2022, 05:17 AMJybrilUnpopular Opinion but G'raha now sucks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodric
I like the Crystal Exarch way, way better. I actually wish G'raha never tagged with us and stayed there and help his people there
and possibly fall in love with Lyna (Sorry her name escapes me, I think that's it but the Viera.)
He has now suffered the 'Cute Neko Man" diseases where he does cute things like eat borgers
and do nothing but be useless the entire time. I actually kinda side with Eistenin now. He's good company
and he isn't idolizing me at every second...though he reminds me of Kain Highwind and I can't stand that mfer.
But anyways yeah lol. Just wish G'raha wasn't turned into this now because he lost his character for me. -
04-21-2022, 05:29 AMHollowedDollHard agree, there's been maybe one instance in Endwalker where he actually acted like the same character we've got to know in SHB ( post-reveal mind you), it seems like he threw away his character arc and regressed back into quirky catboy from ARR with the added "benefit" of being an insufferable fanboy who's there purely for fanservice in what you'd think is a slice of life anime. Seriously feels like character assasination.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jybril
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04-21-2022, 05:36 AMRulakir
I took a look at the Japanese lore forums again, still uneventful except for one hot take thread where the person didn't like Elpis at all. Despite my disagreeing with most of what they wrote, they did think Kairos was BS (as did most of the respondents) and were irritated at the lack of diverse dialog options throughout EW.
I will flip tables if they write Azem as knowing about the sundering and their future, sundered self.Quote:
Originally Posted by PawPaw
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ FLIP THAT TABLE. ┻━┻ ︵ ヽ(°□°ヽ) FLIP THIS TABLE. ┻━┻ ︵ ＼\('0')/／ ︵ ┻━┻ FLIP ALL THE TABLES!
The first thought that came into my head is Venat developed a crush on the WoL and had to ensure the timeline played out as it did so she could see them again. -_-Quote:
Originally Posted by PawPaw
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04-21-2022, 05:42 AMPawPawI...I have a feeling this is where they are trying to go...though I will happily (angrily?) join you in flipping those tables as this would not be acceptable to me either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rulakir
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04-21-2022, 05:46 AMcookerWasn't the Crystal Exarch more of a father/grandfather to Lyna? I don't think they should get romantically involved lol. I like G'raha overall. I guess he could be a bit more serious, but don't think he's just pure comic relief (i.e., hi I view him as a young guy who had the role leader in a post apocalyptic (or ongoing apocalypse) world thrust upon him and he did it for a long time and finally has the opportunity to let his hair down a bit, but he isn't just comic relief and his serious side is still there and comes out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jybril
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04-21-2022, 05:50 AMRulakirThe one bright side with Pandemonium being so spread out and not voice acted is they have an opportunity to change it and I sincerely hope they did if that's the direction they were going to go with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by PawPaw
I'm sick of the same team saying they can't/won't develop Azem due to player headcanon and yet that's exactly what they've done in EW. Azem is not only nothing like how I envisioned to the extent of being the antithesis of my personality, but is perilously close to being written in contradiction to the WoL and Ardbert. -
04-21-2022, 05:59 AManhaato
I think the loss of Yda and Papalymo was the downfall of the scions as an interesting group of characters. With them around we got a mildly entertaining dynamic and, most importantly, there was diversity of thought among them. Sure, Yda was the ditzy blonde comic relief but there was nothing wrong with having a "dumb one" around to think of things simplistically because that can prove to be valuable input. Now the scions are just geniuses 1 through 6 who agree on everything, and Estinien is left to fill in the non-genius spot but it doesn't quite work because he still has that "cool" image and ends up on the same page as everyone else anyway. I will never hate Lyse because even though she was a downgrade from Yda she still kept that less-thinking-more-doing rationale and it made for some entertaining moments in 4.0 like when she kicked the shit out of that Namazu. Also, her putting things simply was useful for communicating concepts to readers who couldn't follow along with Urianger's Shakespeare impression all the time. Now when the remaining scions try to put things simply for the reader it just feels like they're talking down to you.
Whoever our new friends end up being, granted that they ARE new, I hope we get at least one meathead who charges into action without thinking and either subverts the situation by showing that the solution was more simple than we thought or creates minor issues by doing so. Give a little bit of spice to our main cast! A bit of fun! Some whimsy! -
04-21-2022, 06:04 AMNilroreoOn one hand, I really want them to recover from this mess, as they've granted us beautifully crafted stories before, and I believe they could do it again. On the other, as a connoisseur of hot anime cringe in jrpg's à la Kingdom Hearts, I'm morbidly curious as to where they're going with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by PawPaw
I'll gladly take Fordola as my meathead :).Quote:
Originally Posted by anhaato
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04-21-2022, 06:15 AMRedaAlertThat is not an "Unpopular Opinion" here in this forums, people here love to hate on G'raha at every chance they get.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jybril
I agree that he needs to have more badass moments where he shows his prowess and leadership more, but to say he was useless is just wrong and I will stand by this statement no matter what, all through EW he was the most competent out of all the Scions, saving the lives of countless people, but it really doesn't matter because people hate him purely out of personal feelings, if he does nothing people will call him useless, and if he does anything people will scream 'mary sue'. I think it is pretty clear that as the Crystal Exarch he was still a fanboy who idolized the WoL yet he kept his emotions and feelings tamed cause he needed to play the role of the enigmatic leader, he literally kind of told you how he feels on that hill on Kholusia, and all until 5.3 the possible outcome of his death haunted his mind as he used his very essence to put everything into the soul vessels to bring back the scions. Does that mean that the game should neglect his 100 years of leadership? no and that is why I want them to show his exarch side more.
After 5.3, having now given a 2nd chance in life, he decides to re-live his lost forgotten youth, free from responsibilities and stress, a 100 years, from an apocalypse to another to another, the man finally gets to live how he wants, but this is how he always was, with his exarch life popping in and out life like the Thavnair scene. I, personally, don't mind his affection, I don't mind him being who he is, and living as he wants, after everything he's been through, I kind of understand people who find him uncomfortable out of personal feelings, or feel like he is too attached, but I don't cry over fictional, pixelated characters being clingy to my pixelated character. Maybe I'm just weird idk, also the whole crystarium mentioned that Lyna is like a granddaughter to the Exarch, so unless you are into that I don't think it will work. -
04-21-2022, 06:30 AManhaatoSee I would've loved getting to travel with her and Arenvald but Square hates Ala Mhigo so bad they permanently injured one of them and took him out of the story forever!Quote:
Originally Posted by Nilroreo
Edit: also I forgot to mention that one of the highlights of HW was how Estinien and Ysayle were at war with each other for a good portion of our travels. Give me more sidekicks who don't get along at first! I'd accept having one scion holdover if it's Urianger and we get to see him hate someone else who's new to the cast. I think it would be hysterical if we got to see him just absolutely seethe at someone for minor reasons. -
04-21-2022, 06:33 AMSieyaM
Maybe it's just me but I also feel like the prove yourself by combat trope is way overused in FFXIV. It seems like they want to set up a scenario for these battles to take place but can't think of anything good or fitting for the narrative so it's just a standard "prove yourself worthy" line.
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04-21-2022, 06:39 AMSkyborneIf we're talking about cringe, I hope we get fun cringe in the future and not just whatever EW was. Nomura/Ishikawa collab without any meddling when?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nilroreo
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...770&height=400
I really wonder if that's going to be the case for the rest of the 24man, but I'm on the same boat.Quote:
Originally Posted by SieyaM
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04-21-2022, 06:57 AMNilroreoCompletely agree. I brought up awhile back that Hydaelyn really had no reason to fight us to the death, she just does. Even if we had lost, what exactly would that prove? To some degree this can also apply to Zodiark as well, as Fandaniel only needed Zodiark dead, so why bother trying to kill us?Quote:
Originally Posted by SieyaM
I love how sincere every word that comes out of that man's mouth is lol. It's cringe, but I just can't bring myself to hate him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyborne
Also, didn't he have a hand in the development of the Eden raids? -
04-21-2022, 06:57 AMHurlstone
I have to say, I really enjoyed Endwalker. I assumed the worst at first, thinking that it was a very bad idea to wrap everything up in the base story and not flesh things out in the post quests. However, I was delightfully surprised by how well everything came together. Sure, it was not as good as Shadowbringers (My fav FF story I think) and I rolled my eyes at such things like “Oh look, one by one the Scions are sacrificing themselves for me in grand fashion. No way this is gonna be reset by a item I got earlier in the plot…” and it felt more… safe, in reflection of how Shadowbringers twisted a lot of the tropes we had come to know. But I really liked what twists we had regarding Amon, seeing Elpis and the Ancients in the flesh like that. I for one did a total 360 in regards to Hydaelyn/Venat. I was sure they would end up being the ultimate foe of the game, but she kinda turned into one of my favourite characters.
Anywho, I did think praise was mostly universal, so its been very interesting seeing peoples complaints and debate on the expansion and its themes. Opening my eyes to a few things I had not considered. I really wanna play the story again, perhaps from start to finish. It would be great to know more about the thought and writing proses that went into each expansion, what was layed out from the start and what was made up for each instalment (I kinda expect its the latter for most)
I do think you are right here. Many of the fights in the MSQ do feel like they are there just to inject some gameplay into the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by SieyaM
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04-21-2022, 07:44 AMPawPawit's funny how that happens, my experience was the complete polar opposite of yours :P. I went in not caring either way about Hydaelyn but not actually believing that she was a villain and came out feeling that she very much was an antagonist and she's now my least liked character in the entire game thus far.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurlstone
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04-21-2022, 07:44 AMRulakirOh lord, I'm Nomura. :P I still want to know what his original vision was for FFXV. I didn't end up liking any of the protagonists except for Ignis (Lunafreya is one of the worst female characters I've had the misfortune to come across) and Ardyn is close to tied to being my all time favorite antagonist next to Emet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyborne
Left to my own devices, I'm a mercenary/anti-hero. I don't relate to 'goody-two-shoes' types and I'm a Fordola-level realist. If I had any choice in the matter Esteem would've taken over as the WoL and it would've been awesome. I only side with the villains if they're compelling.
I went in expecting nuance. I figured she'd be handled similarly to Emet. I did not expect her to evil. Instead, her actions were far worse than I anticipated (the sundering being intentional and with knowledge of the future) with gaslighting the likes I've never seen to try to convince me she wasn't a 'bad guy'. Someone on Reddit said she would've made an amazing villain if the writers/devs had the stones to depict her as such and I'd have to agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by PawPaw
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04-21-2022, 08:39 AMNilroreoI'm actually impressed at how every single major female character in that game managed to out-waifu her. Even a character from a completely unrelated mobile game outshined her ass and had a far more compelling relationship with Noctis (Also more screen time somehow).Quote:
Originally Posted by Rulakir
Same... But seeing as she can use Armiger, all will be forgiven once they add Kingsglaive as a job. Make it happen SQUARE!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by PawPaw
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04-21-2022, 10:16 AMKrithas
A lot of you said what I thought and felt myself, so I won't go into much detail. Played straight from ARR to the current patch after my friend talked me into playing a few months ago, and I enjoyed the story throughout the patches, Heavensward and Shadowbringers being my favorites. But then Endwalker happened. The narrative took a complete shift from Shadowbringer with light and dark neither bad nor good, being able to sympathize with the Ancients and given dialogue choices to show it or telling them to fuck off. Yet in Endwalker it was just a complete sucking off of Hydaelyn and how she did no wrong but everything right. Nobody questioned her, not even your character. Only dialogue options you had were to agree or agree harder, besides the shade on the moon.
All they had to do was have the narrative stay gray and not blatantly suck her off yet they didn't and that ruined the game for me. I havn't been this mad at a game since Tales of Graces F. I gave 6.1 a chance to see if they would change the narrative, instead they double downed and sucked off Hydaelyn even harder in the codex. They even had Y'shtola summon 2 familiars as guinea pigs to enter the void, but no worries she's a Scion and a good guy! Unlike the evil Ancients who created familiars to see if they would help the planet and environment, her using them as test subjects and subjecting one to pain was totally A OK!!.
I decided to let my sub end in a few days, which is a shame because I enjoyed this game from when I first started and found the gameplay fun. I'll still keep up with later patches and see if they do anything to change the narrative, but I'm not holding my breathe. I only lurked and never posted, but decided I should make a post to show that the "silent minority" is bigger than people seem to realize. Hope you all still enjoy playing and enjoy your time with the game. -
04-21-2022, 10:31 AMOhNoooYeah I've noticed things like that more and more the "rules for thee but not for me." I definitely raised an eyebrow during the reaper quests too. And now the thought of traveling to different shards to "liberate" or bring our own version of morality to any already established civilizations there just feels kind of nauseating to me. I never wanted to be part of a group that obviously knows what's best for the entire world and has taken upon itself the "duty" to offer its "help" to other unsuspecting civilizations lol. It's just so cringe to me, especially as someone who tends to like a more chaotic neutral or anti hero character. If someone is not right in front of me attempting to hurt me, I have no reason to go out of my way to fix anything, nor do I have a reason to blindly follow orders from someone I just met, yet I've been doing it since ARR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krithas
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04-21-2022, 10:48 AMPawPawThanks for chiming in, it's ruined the game for me also so I can relate 100%. I found myself more often than not rolling my eyes and muttering things like "SHOCKER" AND "YOU DON'T SAY!" throughout the entirety of 6.1. I'm pretty over it and hadn't fully realized it until then, but now I have. It's both baffling and sad because I've been in love with this story since 2013 and all it took was one EP to undo that completely. I'm in the process of decorating my FC's new house (we got lucky) and when that's finished I'll probably unsub as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krithas
Yeah, we all had a good laugh at Y'shtola's abuse of familiars being totally acceptable because Scion but when the Ancients do things with familiars they are evil and "scary". -
04-21-2022, 11:00 AMTheodric
Endwalker certainly killed a lot of my enthusiasm for the game. I'd have removed my subscription as well if not for being lucky enough to own a mansion. I did remove all my bonus retainers and I didn't bother buying any of the new merchandise. Usually I get anything with a bonus code but I just don't care about the game enough anymore to spend anything but the absolute bare minimum.
It simply isn't the same game that I fell in love with. I do have some vague hope that maybe things will course correct but 6.1 simply doubled down on a lot of the things that irritated me about Endwalker.
I'm not even convinced that it's being written to appeal to those of us who invested in the ongoing story so much as those who just care about the Scions first and foremost. -
04-21-2022, 01:39 PMKageTokage
While I do like the direction the story has been going in so far, I really hope they don't decide to have us go galivanting off to another shard in 7.0 for the sake of "subverting expectations" when they've spent years gradually fleshing out the remaining continents we've yet to visit back on the Source.