Regarding the Revision of the Prohibited Activities and Account Penalty Policy

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Originally Posted by Rasikko

The problem is that text is flat to many, and then consider the fact that people from many different cultures and backgrounds play this game. This all has to be considered when talking to someone. I struggle with jokes so I tend limit them.

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https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/p...mancy_3038.jpg

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Originally Posted by FirstnameLastname

But don't you dare suggest to people in dungeons there might be room for improvement in their gameplay. Straight to the butchers block with you, then.

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It's that sort of thing that is serving to make a lot of online games feel a lot less social than they should. I noticed a decline in the number of people speaking up beyond, perhaps, a 'hi' and a 'ty' right after the terms of service were updated to make even constructive criticism risk being deemed unacceptable behaviour.

Personally if I was doing something wrong in-game I'd want someone to let me know. Politely, of course but still.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Well.. you CAN but keep in mind if it is judged as frivolous enough you may get punished for abusing the report function. They do review these things.

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But how many are actually investigated? Just based on what I've seen from how they handle reports on the forums, I can say with confidence that they don't investigate anything. They get the ticket, they see what "rule" was broken, and they issue a ban or close the ticket without action. There won't be any investigation to see it was a frivolous report, and more than likely the person reported will get a 3+ day ban. All because someone's feefees were hurt.

Ever since I found out about these rule changes, I have been hesitant to help people in dungeons. I've seen too many people saying they were punished because the person they were trying to help got their feefees hurt and reported the person trying to help. Why would I put my account on the line just for trying to be helpful? I won't. These rules discourage socialization and helping each other. but what do i know, i'm just someone who doesn't assume people are being malicious with everything they say...

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's that sort of thing that is serving to make a lot of online games feel a lot less social than they should. I noticed a decline in the number of people speaking up beyond, perhaps, a 'hi' and a 'ty' right after the terms of service were updated to make even constructive criticism risk being deemed unacceptable behaviour.

Personally if I was doing something wrong in-game I'd want someone to let me know. Politely, of course but still.

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I'm one of those people who is a lot less likely to be social in dungeons because of this rule change. General, friendly banter? That's now risky because if someone in the run is triggered by the topic... they can report you and there's nothing to you can do to stop the incoming "forced vacation" from the game. This does not make for a positive community experience.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Seems to me that these "prohibited activities" allow GMs to punish players for virtually anything they might desire to at any time.

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THIS
Streamer got banned for something he has not been even told for. :)
Great tos btw

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Originally Posted by LuciferNacht

I mean, if you're being a decent mature human being, you won't get hit by a GM.

It doesn't seem that hard.

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The problem is that politely telling that level 80 healer to stop spamming cure 1/benefic/physik and to use their full kit and dps is "not being a decent human being" in some people's books. Or Telling that one tank to actually use their mitigation and stop saving them for "emergencies" that will never come. Or telling that DNC to stop using their single target kit and to use their dances when a big pull is going on, etc etc.

Some would classify these actions as "Not being a decent human being" when I would say the person not being decent is the one dragging everyone else down, intentionally or no.

People have gotten bans for trying to give advice and are afraid to give guidance to people playing badly, even at 80 where basic competency is expected and you think this advice wouldn't be needed, but sadly is, because this rather loosely worded ToS allows for bans over giving said polite advice. Provided the person having the advice given to them either decides to think "How dare they say my way of playing isn't the way to do things" or just reports for the sake of it, perhaps even trying to bait out such responses.

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Originally Posted by Laphicet

The problem is that politely telling that level 80 healer to stop spamming cure 1/benefic/physik and to use their full kit and dps is "not being a decent human being" in some people's books. Or Telling that one tank to actually use their mitigation and stop saving them for "emergencies" that will never come. Or telling that DNC to stop using their single target kit and to use their dances when a big pull is going on, etc etc.

Some would classify these actions as "Not being a decent human being" when I would say the person not being decent is the one dragging everyone else down, intentionally or no.

People have gotten bans for trying to give advice and are afraid to give guidance to people playing badly, even at 80 where basic competency is expected and you think this advice wouldn't be needed, but sadly is, because this rather loosely worded ToS allows for bans over giving said polite advice. Provided the person having the advice given to them either decides to think "How dare they say my way of playing isn't the way to do things" or just reports for the sake of it, perhaps even trying to bait out such responses.

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This argument keeps being made, but if they have gotten bans, it's suspect that they were as nice as they said (or thought) when giving advice. I'm not saying that SE couldn't have made a wrong judgment, but I suspect the fear of ban is overblown.

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Originally Posted by linayar

This argument keeps being made, but if they have gotten bans, it's suspect that they were as nice as they said (or thought) when giving advice. I'm not saying that SE couldn't have made a wrong judgment, but I suspect the fear of ban is overblown.

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The fear of ban is not overblown. You could have a strike on your account for something so miniscule from 5 years ago and as far as the GM team is concerned you already got your slap on the wrist. Any kind of strikes on your account are permanent and never go away. Good luck trying to dispute it to. I have a strike on my account for someone that had the same name as me at the time on a different server. Tried disputing but it's a valid strike they say. Bought a name change promptly after that.

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Originally Posted by SomeRandomHuman

The fear of ban is not overblown. You could have a strike on your account for something so miniscule from 5 years ago and as far as the GM team is concerned you already got your slap on the wrist. Any kind of strikes on your account are permanent and never go away. Good luck trying to dispute it to. I have a strike on my account for someone that had the same name as me at the time on a different server. Tried disputing but it's a valid strike they say. Bought a name change promptly after that.

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Like I said, SE can make mistakes, but I don't think that's the norm, and SE should still evaluate reports to determine if they have any merit.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Like I said, SE can make mistakes, but I don't think that's the norm, and SE should still evaluate reports to determine if they have any merit.

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Getting a player mix-up is one thing, but then a seperate team deeming the mix-up is actually a valid permanent strike. That strike on my account will never go away. It will be there until the game shuts down and there's nothing I can do about it even though I never did anything to merit that strike.

SE needs to clean its act up. It's under fire over several different criticisms and punishing players and not undoing strikes on mix-ups should certainly be one of them.

And to those curious it was about vulgar and obscene macros when any macro I've ever used were nothing that wasn't already in game and even asked about the content of the offense. I was denied that request and just labeled guilty.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Like I said, SE can make mistakes, but I don't think that's the norm, and SE should still evaluate reports to determine if they have any merit.

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Sorry but I believe there is no room for mistakes especially when you are paying a subscription and putting money into the game for support, people invest years into their game and shouldn't toy around when it comes to giving someone a temp ban and when you ask them to investigate, they go oh sorry we aren't going to reverse and you ask why they go we aren't going to tell you.