Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

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Originally Posted by Cynric

My friend does about 460 - 470 on dummy parses with her novus but she still has some i90 gear on .

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Your friend might want to check the validity of her samples. 464 is the theoretical peak for a BiS Dragoon as of 2.3; it is physically impossible to reproduce with a Novus and mixed i90. One of the more popular parsers gives substantially (40-50+ DPS) inflated readings due to its way of reading damage, however, so it may simply be that.

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Originally Posted by Krr

Your friend might want to check the validity of her samples. 464 is the theoretical peak for a BiS Dragoon as of 2.3; it is physically impossible to reproduce with a Novus and mixed i90. One of the more popular parsers gives substantially (40-50+ DPS) inflated readings due to its way of reading damage, however, so it may simply be that.

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Thats with party buff and food , I dunno tbh our bard also had her 15-20 DPS under me in coil (cept T9) and I'm hitting 490-500 with my Monk being BiS cept the HA claws.

Neither of us have any duties in T8 except like 1 tower every 2 sets.

If it makes any difference she prioritizes Crit > Det > speed

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Originally Posted by Cynric

Thats with party buff and food , I dunno tbh our bard also had her 15-20 DPS under me in coil (cept T9) and I'm hitting 490-500 with my Monk being BiS cept the HA claws.

Neither of us have any duties in T8 except like 1 tower every 2 sets.

If it makes any difference she prioritizes Crit > Det > speed

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Ahh. Party buff + Food is probably making up the difference I'm thinking of there, then. Never mind me.

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Originally Posted by Raziel0

Just for curiosity, I beat T10 2 times, I was ilv107 the first time and 110 the second, my dps was about 370/380.
Now i'm 113(/cheer belt drop) what rotation do you use?
I use this one:
HT-ID-Dis-CT-Ph-TT-VT-FT-HT-TT-VT-FT-Ph-ID-Dis-CT-HT-TT-VT-FT-Ph-TT-VT-FT
but sometimes can happen that i miss a heavy trust, not alwas but can happen 1 or 2 in the entire fight
how do you reach 400-430? what is your ilv? do you use craft/pentameld gear?

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This week I did 411 DPS on T10 with having to drop 2 blue balls for the charge, casting LB3 and getting killed on the final charge before boss kill due to low DRG magic defense because you get pushed into electric area had to run back, was dead for like 5 seconds, I messed up my rotation twice as well.

I'm i113 no crafted/ gear, never miss HT and tab dot on the adds, dot the Daughter, dot the Son, switch back to daughter and kill, repeat. Use poison and strength potions as well.

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Originally Posted by Daweism

This week I did 411 DPS on T10 with having to drop 2 blue balls for the charge, casting LB3 and getting killed on the final charge before boss kill due to low DRG magic defense because you get pushed into electric area had to run back, was dead for like 5 seconds, I messed up my rotation twice as well.

I'm i113 no crafted/ gear, never miss HT and tab dot on the adds, dot the Daughter, dot the Son, switch back to daughter and kill, repeat. Use poison and strength potions as well.

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If you have your Gap closer up and you use them instantly when you have been pushed back they can save your life.

At least DRGs have sexy armors
http://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acci...7ced2c584c.jpg

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Originally Posted by HaelseMikiro

At least DRGs have sexy armors
http://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acci...7ced2c584c.jpg

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I've seen you walking around with that thing and I get jelly :c
Only problem is it has crap stats compared to the poetics chest lol

yeah, the DW chest isn't on my BiS list, but since it dropped, that just means that instead of buying the poetics chest next (original plan was to buy spear, chest, boots) now I'll be buying boots next week, and then moving to jewelry. I got the crafted 110 pants, so I'm not in a pressing rush to buy poetics pants until jewelry is done.

I also got drg boots from t12, which also has crap stats but I've decided to use it anyway cuz i130 lol
Also not buying any poetics for Dragoon cuz ninja ((:

b-but d-dragoon buffs!

p-please look forward to them!

(rip eta)

Until the buffs I'm currently maining a MNK now... around 3 iLVLs behind my DRG (no Poetics gear) but the difference in DPS is really noticeable. As a DRG main I really noticed the difference!

WTB Update on DRG buffs and ETA for it...

I got one shot by a megaflare that did 7044 damage.

gg boys.

Now doing t13 with 708x hp.

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Originally Posted by rickyguo

I got one shot by a megaflare that did 7044 damage.

gg boys.

Now doing t13 with 708x hp.

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Dragooni' ain't easy. T_T

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Originally Posted by Daweism

WTB Update on DRG buffs and ETA for it...

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...58#post2580158

Lets see if we get that question liked enough, if they actually ask it. Hahah.

@ Yan: hard life.

Is it possible that they are going to introduce the changes this Tuesday with 2.41?

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Originally Posted by ColdestHeaven

Is it possible that they are going to introduce the changes this Tuesday with 2.41?

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That would be quick, and nice, but I doubt it.

I think Tuesday is mainly for Echo being added into SCOB.

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Originally Posted by HulveinBlitz

That would be quick, and nice, but I doubt it.

I think Tuesday is mainly for Echo being added into SCOB.

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Inb4 the devs waited too long to fix DRGs and they'll be like "SCREW IT LET'S JUST MAKE DRG THE #1 DPS IN HEAVENSWARD"

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Originally Posted by HulveinBlitz

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...58#post2580158

Lets see if we get that question liked enough, if they actually ask it. Hahah.

@ Yan: hard life.

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Jumped in too check if their was more repleis to my q a few pages back^^ Got our DRG now, so I can see for myself how he does in comparison, thanks everyone!

Thought I'd reply to this too though! I wouldn't expect too much creativity from them frankly, in terms of DPS it will probably just be potency buffs. When Black Mage was having trouble in Second Coil Yoshida explicitly stated the buff to them wouldn't be "simply potency improvements", this started a whole bunch of speculation on what we could possibly get. Patch day comes around, the buffs for the DPS was simple potency improvements, lol and a nerf to Manawall/buff to Apocatastasis. I just hope they don't take as long to buff the Dragoons as they did with Black Mage >_<

alright we did it boys

but we got monk claws so it might be a sign

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Originally Posted by rickyguo

alright we did it boys

but we got monk claws so it might be a sign

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1) Gratz!
2) It is not a sign. Just temptation. Don't succumb to temptation!

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Originally Posted by rickyguo

alright we did it boys

but we got monk claws so it might be a sign

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come to the darkside of monk ;)

I watched the stream of the kill to grats, but damn u guys needed high hp without dragonkick debuff lol

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Originally Posted by rickyguo

alright we did it boys

but we got monk claws so it might be a sign

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Didn't you get pants too? I think that's a better sign.

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Originally Posted by Elkya95

Didn't you get pants too? I think that's a better sign.

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the pants is like 2str over the i110 crafted though

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Originally Posted by rickyguo

the pants is like 2str over the i110 crafted though

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shhh take it and stay drg.

If they keep us with gimped mag defense and lack of utility they had better buff our dps substantially to compensate in both the burst and sustained department.

I can't see the mdef going unchanged.

It wouldn't surprise me if thats all they do - buff mdef.

So, I managed to contact EasyModeX about new stat weights. He was kind enough to do a little math after the new patch. About the new values you should keep in mind that:
- EMX is not playing FFXIV at the moment but his model is still viable
- there's no chance he'll directly re-assess the stat weights
- in his spreadsheet you can put higher stat values and derive the new approximate stat weights

He asked me to post a "top-end set of whatever new gear is "in"" and let him know what my final stats are (WD, Str, Det, Crit rating, SS)".

I gave him two sets matching the accuracy cap 558, the one needed to cap frontal accuracy in T13, according to my sources.
I posted a first set with 564 accuracy

Weapon Damage: 58
Strenght: 663 (+388) My race, Mi'qote Seeker of the Sun has a bonus of +4 in comparison to the lowest strenght race (Lalafells)
Critical Hit Rate: 490 (+149)
Determination: 361 (+159)
Skill Speed: 363 (+22)

And this, with 557 accuracy:

Weapon Damage: 58
Strenght: 663 (+388)
Critical Hit Rate: 476 (+134)
Determination: 376 (+174)
Skill Speed: 363 (+22)

Sorry for the long introduction.
So this is the results from EMX:
Based on his model the actual stat weights are:

WD 9.355
STR 1.000
DET 0.329
CRT 0.234
SS 0.194

EasyModeX: "From what I hear the only difference in DRG mechanics since then and now are that jumps have a lower cooldown. That would reduce the value of SS slightly (like 0.05?) and increase the value of CRT extremely slightly (like 0.01?), maybe".
EasyModeX/2: "Speaking of which, with DET and CRT so close, that means CRT has a high item budget value (det weight * 20 versus crt weight * 29).
DET 6.59
CRT 6.78
This means you could probably itemize a little bit focused on crit to improve DPS. The two stats have close parity at this gear level and itemization, apparently".

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Originally Posted by Lucael_Shikaree

I gave him two sets matching the accuracy cap 558, the one needed to cap frontal accuracy in T13, according to my sources.
I posted a first set with 564 accuracy

Weapon Damage: 58
Strenght: 663 (+388) My race, Mi'qote Seeker of the Sun has a bonus of +4 in comparison to the lowest strenght race (Lalafells)
Critical Hit Rate: 490 (+149)
Determination: 361 (+159)
Skill Speed: 363 (+22)

And this, with 557 accuracy:

Weapon Damage: 58
Strenght: 663 (+388)
Critical Hit Rate: 476 (+134)
Determination: 376 (+174)
Skill Speed: 363 (+22)

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why would you want to use the frontal accuracy cap for t13 lol ? side acc is 535, havent tried any lower

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Originally Posted by Lucael_Shikaree

EasyModeX/2: "Speaking of which, with DET and CRT so close, that means CRT has a high item budget value (det weight * 20 versus crt weight * 29).
DET 6.59
CRT 6.78
This means you could probably itemize a little bit focused on crit to improve DPS. The two stats have close parity at this gear level and itemization, apparently".

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I dont really get why crit is so much better now than before (DET 0.325 -> 0.329 / CRIT 0.204 -> 0.234), which would swap DRGs main stat from det to crit. Is it because the new sets have more det on average than the old ones?

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Originally Posted by ChaozK

I dont really get why crit is so much better now than before (DET 0.325 -> 0.329 / CRIT 0.204 -> 0.234), which would swap DRGs main stat from det to crit. Is it because the new sets have more det on average than the old ones?

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I think he meant that "since the gap between Det and Crit is smaller than before", and "we find more amounts of Crit on gear rather than Det anyway", it would not really be an issue if "dragoons swapped a couple of pieces to increase Crit rather than just focus on smaller amounts of Det". He did not state that Crit > Det, if I read that correctly. Also, good job for contacting EMX - I was actually wondering if there was any chance of him checking the values post-patch.

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Originally Posted by pompey_dan

why would you want to use the frontal accuracy cap for t13 lol ? side acc is 535, havent tried any lower

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I have used a stochastic model* on that 540 acc / Black Truffle set that many of us have guessed at:

Weapon Damage: 58
Strength: 664 (+388) <- Sea Wolf
Critical Hit Rate: 501 (+160)
Determination: 410 (+208)
Skill Speed: 341 (+0)

and arrived at these stat weights:

WD 9.363
STR 1.000
DET 0.330
CRT 0.218
SS 0.132

His stated methodology is more thorough than what I did, so there is probably a lot more consideration and accuracy in what he shared. But as you can see, the results aren't that different anyway (they do not change the BiS set you get). It probably tickles the bottom of someone's DRG heart to see skill speed so devalued, though!

The big question with so little skill speed on this set (none at all) is keeping Heavy Thrust up for Heavy Thrust itself; it will fall off right as you reapply it, and the slightest delay will cause a potency loss on Heavy Thrust. So just play perfectly. Then there will be no problems, right? :p

* xiv-sim, but with a few tweaks including 2.4 updates and using EMX's damage formula.

EDIT: This method well and truly doesn't properly reflect how skill speed scales. Fixing that seems doable, but don't use these unless you seriously dislike skill speed.

450 DPS on tonights T10 kill!

Goodday,

I am in need of some pointers, although I use the rotation, slightly changed it in the first post I never seem to be able to go past the 400 dps. I am even struggling to get to 360 to be honest on T10. So what am I missing that u all seem to understand? What kind of input system do u use? I am on PC and use the conventional keyboard. Yes I spam buttons. I tried a G13 keyboard and that seems to not give that additional dps that I need to perform better regarding dps in t10.
my gear is atm set to t111 and am holding back on buying gear for drg since I not seem to do any better.

I use HQ buttons in blanket and now and then I use potions but still I see no major difference. On a dummy I can reach to 420 with raid gear (506acc). Any pointers would be welcome! Thx in advance

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Originally Posted by Ullie

Goodday,

I am in need of some pointers, although I use the rotation, slightly changed it in the first post I never seem to be able to go past the 400 dps. I am even struggling to get to 360 to be honest on T10. So what am I missing that u all seem to understand? What kind of input system do u use? I am on PC and use the conventional keyboard. Yes I spam buttons. I tried a G13 keyboard and that seems to not give that additional dps that I need to perform better regarding dps in t10.
my gear is atm set to t111 and am holding back on buying gear for drg since I not seem to do any better.

I use HQ buttons in blanket and now and then I use potions but still I see no major difference. On a dummy I can reach to 420 with raid gear (506acc). Any pointers would be welcome! Thx in advance

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Upload a video of ur T10 and dummy and I will do my best to break it down for u.

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Originally Posted by Ullie

snip

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I like to believe maximizing dot usage is key in keeping up dps. For instance, in t10 I try to Dis/CT the daughter, then Dis/CT/Phleb the son since the party is usually focusing on the daughter first anyway, which gives time for dots to tick on both (more so on the son), then continue w/ FT combo and keeping up HT.

If theres adds in a boss I usually throw in Dragonfire Dive if its not on CD. Locking on a target helps just don't be loldrg about it. Also learn timings/mechanics of each fight to see how you can max. your dps. What gear do you have on? I'd like to see on Lodestone but you're on WAR.

I find that prepping skills help. One thing you could do is prep a HT and Impulse Drive while he is doing his electrocharge before the adds come out. Then move to daughter put up Dis switch to Son put on CT + Phelb, then go back to daughter and do FT rotation. While you're DPSing down the daughter the CT and Phleb are ticking. If you had put both CT and Phleb on daughter it would have died too quickly and you wouldnt have gotten full use of the ticks, thus a waste of dps. Im not saying this will get you to 400 dps, but things like this will help.

BTW Im by no means a top 1% drg, but I was easily doing 460-470 (no food or pots) on a dummy over 3 mins at 109 with HA spear. If you are only doing 420 at i111 you may want to look at your priority system again (notice I didn't say rotation).