Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

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Originally Posted by Aravell

Am I understanding correctly that they gave healers a damage spell they can use every 120s and called it a day?

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No, because you'll be able to use it three times every 120s (assuming you're WHM), aren't they so generous, clearly our feedback got through to them /s

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Originally Posted by MisterNublet

And only in dungeons since it is an AoE! Content where most groups already cut the job because they under perform!

I hate this.

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Phantom Rush for MNK, or Communio for RPR are also AOEs, but are used in single target. All that's needed for that SCH one (assuming that's the one you mean) is for it to be a higher potency than Broil (literally could be 300 compared to current Broil's 295), and have damage falloff, and job's done, same with the WHM one, as long as it's stronger than Glare it'd see use in singletarget too

Still exceptionally underwhelming regardless

The changes seem positive for healers, we get more stuff to do but they feel like too little too late. They would work much better if the jobs had already solid kits instead of an homogenized repetitive mess that we have now

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Originally Posted by Aravell

Am I understanding correctly that they gave healers a damage spell they can use every 120s and called it a day?

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Unless it's a high potency single target spell that has some AoE falloff I guess.

Welcome to the 2 min meta club, healers. At least more fully now.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I’m assuming the SCH dot at least will be gain on 1

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That is true. SCH just barely eeked out a win.

Makes me wonder if it was an accident that they added an extra dot instead of having it "upgrade" Bio. Haha.

Watch it overwrite or be overwritten by Bio.

More mitigation and self sustain for DPS ! Exactly what was asked for by someone I guess

And another spreadlo amplifier on SCH

can’t wait till we repeat DSR and shut out SGE’s because SGE still can’t buff their garbage shields and they made an ultimate mechanic who’s mitigation plan is “SCH use 4 way buffed spreadlo everyone else press everything you have”

I want to say that giving the healers "more" damaging actions was a step in the right direction but they went about it in the most stingy way possible.

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

I want to say that giving the healers "more" damaging actions was a step in the right direction but they went about it in the most stingy way possible.

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They went about it in a way that they can say "We gave you what you want, why are you STILL not happy?".

I guess they really believe a healer's 'filler time' is to sit twiddling their thumbs waiting for something to happen. Not dpsing. Not buffing. Not mitting. Not even healing. None of those at all.

On top of that, they're also increasing the source of mits across entire non-healer job. So what's next on the plate? Are we getting omegalul magnitude body checks too for easy EXs so that people will see omg how hard it is to get 8 players stand in the right spot or they'll explode?

So much for wanting to not let the stress lv of the gameplay fall too low. Lol.

These changes are okay. Overall, it’s not BAD, but the direction could’ve been better. We still don’t know anything about the encounter design overhaul or if more Tank abilities will have more or less mitigation (all they talked about mitigation wise is one role action and the standard 90sec mit ability that all tanks have).

Overall, I give these healer changes a “C”, maybe a “C-.”

Scholars asked for miasma 2 and instead got "miasma 2 minutes". lmao

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Originally Posted by currentlemon

We still don’t know anything about the encounter design overhaul

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Six years ago: "They've removed our DPS skills? Maybe this means we'll have to heal more!"

Four years ago: "They are not adding filler dps skills? Maybe this means we'll actually have to heal more this time!"

Today: "Surely this means we'll actually have to USE more healing in the new encounters right?"

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

Six years ago: "They've removed our DPS skills? Maybe this means we'll have to heal more!"

Four years ago: "They are not adding filler dps skills? Maybe this means we'll actually have to heal more this time!"

Today: "Surely this means we'll actually have to USE more healing in the new encounters right?"

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Please don’t remind me of this.

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

Six years ago: "They've removed our DPS skills? Maybe this means we'll have to heal more!"

Four years ago: "They are not adding filler dps skills? Maybe this means we'll actually have to heal more this time!"

Today: "Surely this means we'll actually have to USE more healing in the new encounters right?"

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Don't forget the intermediary steps of 'well the media tour's only just happened there's still time for changes/it's just the expansion launch wait till the first patch/it's too late for sweeping changes, wait for next expansion', every time like clockwork

I wonder for the whm gap closer if it has unlimited uses when temperance is up but you can't use it when you don't have it up which makes me wonder cause in all the sections that I have used temperance, there is hardly any reason to do so.

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

Don't forget the intermediary steps of 'well the media tour's only just happened there's still time for changes/it's just the expansion launch wait till the first patch/it's too late for sweeping changes, wait for next expansion', every time like clockwork

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the entire playerbase also needs to come to a consensus, of couse.

Going into Dawntrail after the Job Action Trailer, my willingness to play healer Jobs again has increased. The new changes are still subpar, but based on what we got compared to EW, I’ll take what I can get.

I’m hype for SGE again. It’s getting everything I want. New DPS spell, which maybe a oGCD, and a AoE DoT is good. Hopefully the new DoT stacks with the job’s existing DoT instead of replacing one with the other.

AST & WHM are tied. I’m glad that WHM is getting a new DPS spell, but does it have to be tied to PoM? We got unique cards for AST, but at the cost of its RNG. That’s… disappointing.

Still not touching SCH. Get that WHM fairy thing away from me.

Something that was pointed by one I was discussing the changes about mits brings up a good point. What if they are not actually increasing damage but rather just offering more survivability for casuals.

Well I think the media tour people are going to say that the healer are just lukewarm once we get the full picture.

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

Something that was pointed by one I was discussing the changes about mits brings up a good point. What if they are not actually increasing damage but rather just offering more survivability for casuals.

Well I think the media tour people are going to say that the healer are just lukewarm once we get the full picture.

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Isn’t damage already high to begin with? I don’t think damage is the biggest problem, but rather how infrequent the incoming damage is. Before I quit back in 6.2, some of the bosses in the game just stood there doing nothing for a long time.

There’s other issues too such as high item level negating incoming damage, too many one shot mechanics and no actual heal checks.

I could be wrong here since I just started playing again, so my bad for my lack of understanding.

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Originally Posted by currentlemon

Isn’t damage already high to begin with? I don’t think damage is the biggest problem, but rather how infrequent the incoming damage is. Before I quit back in 6.2, some of the bosses in the game just stood there doing nothing for a long time.

There’s other issues too such as high item level negating incoming damage, too many one shot mechanics and no actual heal checks.

I could be wrong here since I just started playing again, so my bad for my lack of understanding.

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Well it depends on the content. It really isn't that high at all in say the msq dungeons, normal trials, allaince raids, normal raids etc. Heck there were times where in DSR I sometimes missed putting exaltation on a tank for busters sometimes and they would be fine without it(Different case for TOP) and even then it's a small selection of fights.

That being said, bosses also do not auto too much either. In P9S for example when you go to the forbidden site and see how much that boss autoed, over the course of 9 and a half minutes, the boss did a total of 32 or about 4 autos per minute.

Figured all this would drop while I was at work.

Initial impressions of the Job Action Trailer had me mostly confused and slightly excited. With more information...

Congratulations Healers we finally get a new attack. If it wasn't tied to our 2min window out of spite, I'll be surprised.

My question to the dev team: what the hells is so hard about giving us an extra attack (or two depending) on a 10-20s cool down that isn't tied to a heal/buff/debuff? Your excuse of it being too hard now die with these changes.

SCH

I'll be honest and say the new Seraphim (Seraph) "effect" went over my head since I was more paying attention to the animations over the character model. Is there some old SCH icon/animation/something its referencing? That belongs on WHM.

WHM

Speaking of... why does it need a gap closer? Because SGE????

SGE

Rejoice in AOE Kardia? Is that what the new buff is to be, or is it just any spell? AOE DoT though (hopefully it does not share an application with E.Dosis). Now allow SGE's DoTs to heal each tick.

AST

Y'know I kinda had the feeling that that was gonna be the new Draw. 60s though? Really? 30s would have been fine.

I honestly think it can be salvaged - the animation for this "Draw" is a reused Sleeve Draw. Make it Sleeve Draw every 60s, line the cards up with Divination window and give us regular Draw back every 15s with RNG cards. Now we have set cards + RNG.

GOOD BYE ASTRODYNE AND THE SEALS SYSTEM. MAY YOU ROT IN THE SEVENTH PIT AND NEVER SEE THE LIGHT OF DAY.

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Originally Posted by currentlemon

Going into Dawntrail after the Job Action Trailer, my willingness to play healer Jobs again has increased. The new changes are still subpar, but based on what we got compared to EW, I’ll take what I can get.

I’m hype for SGE again. It’s getting everything I want. New DPS spell, which maybe a oGCD, and a AoE DoT is good. Hopefully the new DoT stacks with the job’s existing DoT instead of replacing one with the other.

AST & WHM are tied. I’m glad that WHM is getting a new DPS spell, but does it have to be tied to PoM? We got unique cards for AST, but at the cost of its RNG. That’s… disappointing.

Still not touching SCH. Get that WHM fairy thing away from me.

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New SGE spell is not an oGCD, it doesn't have the teal whoosh effect that Skill classed abilities have. It also does not consume Addersting.

https://i.ibb.co/xmQ563y/d25e839b-0d...7bba0e617f.png

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

New SGE spell is not an oGCD, it doesn't have the teal whoosh effect that Skill classed abilities have. It also does not consume Addersting.

https://i.ibb.co/xmQ563y/d25e839b-0d...7bba0e617f.png

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Crapbaskets!

Guess we have to wait for media tour to learn more.

Here praying that the sge attack has a cd of 30-20s (not 2m) and that the eukrasian dyskrasia dot stacks with dosis dot and is a gain on 1, those two things together could be huge for sage

Horrible changes for dps, yet another case of dumbing down to the extreme and removing any sort of skill expression, the opposite what the oh so great yoshida-san promised in a live letter. Have never seen such horrible changes ever minus healers, healers had some good changes especially whm.

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Originally Posted by SenzorialBoundries

Horrible changes for dps, yet another case of dumbing down to the extreme and removing any sort of skill expression, the opposite what the oh so great yoshida-san promised in a live letter. Have never seen such horrible changes ever minus healers, healers had some good changes especially whm.

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Yet for some reason they're extending out the mitigation durations. Truly baffling.

"If you want more engaging content, wait for 8.0"

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Originally Posted by ZiraZ

"If you want more engaging content, wait for 8.0"

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And then when 8.0 comes, he'll be telling us to wait until 9.0 instead.

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

WHM
Speaking of... why does it need a gap closer? Because SGE????

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I think it's because WHM is the supposed antithesis to BLM and if BLM can zip around the map, it makes sense WHM could zip around too during the magi war.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

They went about it in a way that they can say "We gave you what you want, why are you STILL not happy?".

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But people stated they wanted DPS skills because the whole problem of wanting more DPS options is to not be pressing DoT + Broil x11 every minute on the GCD that it becomes so noticeable/boring when there's nothing to heal, so they already didn't give what was asked because you'd still be pressing Glare/Broil/Malefic majority of the time... unless they change the entirety of solo instances for healers to be focused on healing rather than damage and party-instances have so much frequent damage that healers are far too busy healing rather than pressing their attack spells.

I think the big kicker is that all DPS gain increased survival with addle/feint/ranged party mitigation buffed, second wind gets buffed, and tanks get mitigation buffed further. Especially with the number of party members scaling to the content we do, the effect is quite substantial in a party setting compared to just one DPS or one tank getting an increase in survivability as each one of them covers the other one during a skill's downtime.

They really couldn't give healers a couple 20s to 30s cooldown dps skill in exchange for how big of a buff every other role gets in a party setting in relation to the healer role and had to lock the new skills with a 120s cooldown? oof.

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

I think it's because WHM is the supposed antithesis to BLM and if BLM can zip around the map, it makes sense WHM could zip around too during the magi war.

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I'd agree... if it was present anywhere else in the design and if it got it before SGE. Like really I saw that and I'm going "so... because the Nouliths look like wings when SGE zips, because WHM has wings with Temperance you give them a dash???" I wish I was joking. And honestly, that's a perfect design for WHM. "Opposite BLM" in a sense. Where Ice/Fire can be Lily/Blood Lily, Dia procs Glare etc. etc. I'd love that actually.

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

They really couldn't give healers a couple 20s to 30s cooldown dps skill in exchange for how big of a buff every other role gets in a party setting in relation to the healer role and had to lock the new skills with a 120s cooldown? oof.

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Annnnnnnnd that's why my new sig exists.

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

They really couldn't give healers a couple 20s to 30s cooldown dps skill in exchange for how big of a buff every other role gets in a party setting in relation to the healer role and had to lock the new skills with a 120s cooldown? oof.

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White Mage getting 3 instances of this new attack where Scholar only gets 1 is depressing. Who hates Scholar so much that they feel the need to shove them into an ugly robe and humiliate them? If we reduce the cooldown of PoM to 60 seconds from 120, then the three uses could actually be a nice change for White Mage. Do I think that's going to happen? I give it a 6% chance, generously. One can hope (beg), right? But if that was the case, I'd be pretty content with White Mage for the time being at least until this identity rework that's absolutely totally coming in 8.0 (maybe). Throw in a Diacloud system that's gone unmentioned and I'll eat my own shoes.

That said, we don't really know how long of a cooldown the new Astrologian and Sage attacks are. I highly doubt they're short enough to make a difference given how powerful they look. They are almost certainly giving long cooldown nuke vibes. I'd say 90 seconds if we weren't stapled to the 2 minute meta, but it's not impossible that they're 60 second cooldowns? If Sage's Phlegma was dropped to a 20 second cooldown, and this new attack took the place of being at 40 seconds along with a shorter DOT and a reworked Addersting, I'll calmly stfu till 8.0. Make the single target and AOE DOTs a duration of 12 and 24 seconds respectively pretty please?

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

Six years ago: "They've removed our DPS skills? Maybe this means we'll have to heal more!"

Four years ago: "They are not adding filler dps skills? Maybe this means we'll actually have to heal more this time!"

Today: "Surely this means we'll actually have to USE more healing in the new encounters right?"

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You'd think they'd get tired of being wrong all the time. So I can only assume that their predictable irrationality is a side effect of copium overdose.

Healers get still more unnecessary healing, non-healers get still more mitigation and self-healing buffs (making healers even less relevant than they already are), and meanwhile, YoshiderP made sure his main job gets to carry its Ley Lines around the arena, because BLM didn't already have enough movement tools.

On the plus side, it doesn't look like they fouled up DNC, and Pictomancer seems kinda interesting. It speaks to how bad the state of healing is that I'm actually happy that neither new job is a healer this time, since it means the new jobs might actually be fun to play.

I think the worst part of the changes is that they claimed that they made changes according to feedback.

WHM mostly asked for Aero III back and alternative uses for lilies so you don't spam overheal
> Gives WHM 3 AoE spells after PoM

SCH mostly asked for more DoTs and pet management back
> Here's a 120s CD DoT and you can now become Seraph

AST mostly asked for more opportunities to use cards and also for diverse effects
> You can have your diverse effects, but it's on a 60s CD and there's no RNG

SGE mostly asked for a fulfilment of the DPS healer identity
> You can have an AoE DoT and one other button

At least SGE came out the other side better. The other 3 healers though, RIP in pieces.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

SGE mostly asked for a fulfilment of the DPS healer identity

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Its funny because GNB does really have "DPS tank" identity with its kit. Hell, it has more unique animations used within rotation than most of DPS jobs.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

White Mage getting 3 instances of this new attack where Scholar only gets 1 is depressing. Who hates Scholar so much that they feel the need to shove them into an ugly robe and humiliate them? If we reduce the cooldown of PoM to 60 seconds from 120, then the three uses could actually be a nice change for White Mage. Do I think that's going to happen? I give it a 6% chance, generously. One can hope (beg), right? But if that was the case, I'd be pretty content with White Mage for the time being at least until this identity rework that's absolutely totally coming in 8.0 (maybe). Throw in a Diacloud system that's gone unmentioned and I'll eat my own shoes.

That said, we don't really know how long of a cooldown the new Astrologian and Sage attacks are. I highly doubt they're short enough to make a difference given how powerful they look. They are almost certainly giving long cooldown nuke vibes. I'd say 90 seconds if we weren't stapled to the 2 minute meta, but it's not impossible that they're 60 second cooldowns? If Sage's Phlegma was dropped to a 20 second cooldown, and this new attack took the place of being at 40 seconds along with a shorter DOT and a reworked Addersting, I'll calmly stfu till 8.0. Make the single target and AOE DOTs a duration of 12 and 24 seconds respectively pretty please?

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The fact that chain is still single target and will probably remain a crit% increase makes the SCH change even more laughable. Ah yes, just the attack I needed for the crit buff, a dot that can't crit. What's this a mob pack? Better target one of them just so I can use my aoe attack. Just baffling.

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Originally Posted by Rozeee

The fact that chain is still single target and will probably remain a crit% increase makes the SCH change even more laughable. Ah yes, just the attack I needed for the crit buff, a dot that can't crit. What's this a mob pack? Better target one of them just so I can use my aoe attack. Just baffling.

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Dots actually crit, it's just that they can't direct hit. But you are right that for there some issues with synergy with the moves.

Once again bringing this back up to make sure that since this is the de facto healer thread, still a good place to talk about stuff.

We don't get an animation upgrade to our basic attacks this time. Our DoT has the same potency since ShB and our Damage Spell does not (presumeably) get an upgraded potency. Is that why we get some form of 2min attack? The 5 potency upgrade we would have gotten with Glare 6, Broil 7, Astral Solar Malefic and Dosis IV gets to be "contained" into our new shiny 2minute Cds?

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

We don't get an animation upgrade to our basic attacks this time. Our DoT has the same potency since ShB and our Damage Spell does not (presumeably) get an upgraded potency. Is that why we get some form of 2min attack? The 5 potency upgrade we would have gotten with Glare 6, Broil 7, Astral Solar Malefic and Dosis IV gets to be "contained" into our new shiny 2minute Cds?

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With every expansion, HP values of enemies has to scale with the increase in potency per minute that each DPS and tank job is having added to their total outgoing damage. Because every expansion isn't just us getting stronger due to the stats gained over those 10 levels, it's also that we're pumping out a higher amount of damage relative to that new level. If HP values on enemies don't scale with this in mind, then content in this game would get shorter with every expansion as the damage output would get higher and higher. Thus, healers must have their damage increase as well, otherwise even just solo content gets slower and slower for healers every expansion.

This is why healers would get their obligatory DPS upgrade each expansion, but there's a major flaw with that as well which I've talked about before. The higher the damage of your basic attack spell gets, the higher the pressure there is on you to maintain as high a DPS output as possible. Because your Glare, Malefic, etc. can be spammed theoretically every GCD, every cast that doesn't go toward your attack is that much larger of a loss to your damage. Ironically, the desire to avoid adding pressure on healers to DPS by removing nearly all other attacks and refusing to add new ones actually adds a lot more pressure to have a high DPS uptime. The complexity of your rotation might be nonexistent, but the pressure to be a glare turret increases.