Final Fantasy XIV and a Culture of Enabling

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

She could say that same thing about other players. In that context it works both ways.

How she enjoys the game is not breaking the rules, and if it bothers other people well no point in either side standing on a moral high ground about that. How players play can reflect on your enjoyment. Part of the charm of mmorpgs. I use to rage about it as well, but at some point I came to understand that it really does not matter at the end of the day if it takes longer.

Both sides can point to each other and say hey you are ruining my fun why are you being selfish or whatever. It is a losing battle for both. It being a mmorpg both sides can use that as defense on this same subject.

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I agree it applies to both sides when it comes in general interactions.
And as i said, its fine if the difference is not big, almost nobody actually is going to be bothered by it
Issues start in that particular context when the difference is extremely noticeable, that is the point where line can be drawn.

Same thing applies vice versa yeah. But the way it happens is somewhat different
You wont have worse time if someone is doing their rotation properly, or uses aoe on mob pulls. You might, if person afk's or gets pretty much carried

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Originally Posted by MyakotApelsia

I agree it applies to both sides when it comes in general interactions.
And as i said, its fine if the difference is not big, almost nobody actually is going to be bothered by it
Issues start in that particular context when the difference is extremely noticeable, that is the point where line can be drawn.

Same thing applies vice versa yeah. But the way it happens is somewhat different
You wont have worse time if someone is doing their rotation properly, or uses aoe on mob pulls. You might, if person afk's or gets pretty much carried

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Agree, but all we can do is be understanding of each other. As she said, she only does group content when the story forces her to do it. Her way of being understanding to others who don't like how she plays is to not do group content like the dailies and such. That is her middle ground.


My own stance is this, when grouping with others for optional content. I want players to show me the same respect by playing your class to fullest that you can. After all it is a group content that you pick to do that you don't need to do. So afking or just not understanding your class, I am more willing to vote kick.


On dungeons that require by the story and or trials. I am 100 percent understanding of players like her that just play how they want. They want to see the story, and I should not gatekeep what they consider "fun" even if I don't understand it and it could ruin my fun by being god awful slow.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

Agree, but all we can do is be understanding of each other. As she said, she only does group content when the story forces her to do it. Her way of being understanding to others who don't like how she plays is to not do group content like the dailies and such. That is her middle ground.


My own stance is this, when grouping with others for optional content. I want players to show me the same respect by playing your class to fullest that you can. After all it is a group content that you pick to do that you don't need to do. So afking or just not understanding your class, I am more willing to vote kick.


On dungeons that require by the story and or trials. I am 100 percent understanding of players like her that just play how they want. They want to see the story, and I should not gatekeep what they consider "fun" even if I don't understand it and it could ruin my fun by being god awful slow.

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It's.... kind of a very questionable middle ground imo. Kinda goes against "have some respect for other people", since you are pretty much telling everyone "deal with it, you dont pay my sub"

Fair

Partially fair imo. My stance is that its fine until you get to 65-70+ levels. Imo you should at least at least recognise what needs to be done after you complete 2 expansions and countless dungeons/trials. If you are going to 80 dungeon/trial and still maintain philosophy of "i dont care", i dunno, at least for me its kind of a bad thing. But maybe thats because i dont get these things, since i try to not disappoint anyone when playing with other people

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Originally Posted by HisShadowX

What an awesome tank. The fact he was being patient with his healer when they are learning. Its not hard at all to have a max level character. Before I was midway into Heavenward I already had three level 80s.

I wish they had a, 'Vote to Kick Hardcore Masochist and send him back to FFXI and Everquest to fight bats and rats and delevel with his or her own kind'

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learning? their white mage was at 80, dude, they really should know how to play their class at that level ;)

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

learning? their white mage was at 80, dude, they really should know how to play their class at that level ;)

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Not everyone learns at the same rate, and the game does not really teach you how to play your class at max level. In fact many players get better playing what we consider the wrong way and get decent at playing that way.


It is best not to assume that just because someone levels up to max, that they should know how to play.

You should have a working understanding of your job by level 80. At level 80 you are not new anymore and people are going to expect more of you.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

You should have a working understanding of your job by level 80. At level 80 you are not new anymore and people are going to expect more of you.

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so what makes you say that? Does the leveling content require you to know your class inside and out to do it?

If the content itself does not require such mastery. What makes you think players should know?

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

so what makes you say that? Does the leveling content require you to know your class inside and out to do it?

If the content itself does not require such mastery. What makes you think players should know?

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I said working, not optimal. As a WHM you should have a grasp of what each of your healing spells do and and general idea of when to apply them. The DPS skills are self explanatory. Furthermore, WHM is by far the easiest of the healers to grasp, so yeah a WHM player should have a basic idea of what the job entails at 80.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

I said working, not optimal. As a WHM you should have a grasp of what each of your healing spells do and and general idea of when to apply them. The DPS skills are self explanatory. Furthermore, WHM is by far the easiest of the healers to grasp, so yeah a WHM player should have a basic idea of what the job entails at 80.

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I mean even working. I know a 63 year old lady who does not understand what a dot is but plays a bard. and does not know what half her skills does. But was able to get to max level. What you are saying the game does not require for you to know to level up.

What I am saying, and have been saying for pages upon pages is to stop situations such as that from happening SE needs to put in more roadblocks that make a player look at and interact with their skills. Also that player, if they have no understanding of dots, is a negative gain to whatever party they get paired with.