What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

I enjoy that this thread is still going strong. Wonder if we'll get a dawntrail version too.

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There was one made, in bad faith, a few months ago that fell off. I don't think one will be needed to this extent.

Even if DT story is worse than EW, it won't have the same impact. EW was a drastic re-adjustment to how I personally think about the story, as in, I enjoyed it before, now I don't. Many fundamental parts and mysteries of the setting were resolved outright. Some of the things people love or hate about the world of FFXIV as of 6.5 are now load-bearing pillars to the setting. Example: Person A had investment in the void plot. Void plot has now happened, and Person A didn't like it. So in any future void-adjacent story, Person A will know better than to be excited for, or at least, will have less investment in it.

If we start at "This is good." or "I don't know what I feel." and move to "I now actively dislike this.", that is more of a shock than starting from a position of "This is bad" and moving to "This is now good/better." due to negativity bias and we cannot unroll the dice of EW.

DT will be free from that baggage, but I'm not wasting my investment a second time. Fool me once, and all that.

The less relevant EW is to DT, the better. That includes any lingering feelings, or lack thereof, as well.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Well it was different writers back in Stormblood for the MSQ, wasn't it? He's not an Ishikawa original, is he?

But yeah, I probably do give them too much credit. I'm just one of those folks that thinks Zenos gets a bum rep.

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In spite of the Deus Ex Machina near the end he was both the highlight AND one of the wasted opportunities in Endwalker in my opinion. I almost want to say he accidentally went from being a bland antagonist to the more tolerable character right up to his death.

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Originally Posted by Sayo_

I can believe that none of the unsundered Ascians would have come up with the plan, but out of all the sundered Ascians they had, including Daniel himself, would have thought to mention the old "Grab and teleport" trick? Or at least try it until then? Although we don't really see many sundered ascians on the main story.

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Other than Fandaniel, the only sundered Ascians we directly encounter are Nabriales and Igeyorhm in the main story, and Mitron and Lohgrif in Eden. Nabriales sees the Blessing of Light sealed, decides it means we're no longer a threat, and immediately goes to steal Tupsimati. Credit for being proactive about his goals, but he ended up being the trial run for white auracite and getting killed before he could have another go at us. Igeyorhm is encountered while working directly under Lahabrea, and she's not given much screen time to do anything before dying in Azys Lla. (One could also question why, when she and the Archbishop have us stunned after the fight with Bismark, they don't just throw us off the island into the Sea of Clouds and let us fall, but changing the circumstances of "why the villains didn't just immediately kill the hero" doesn't really change the question or the answer.) Mitron and Lohgrif are over on the First, so they're busy with their own plots. And given the flexible nature of time between Shards, they may have already been defeated by Ardbert's group, in which case Mitron was sealed in Eden, and Lohgrif was either reincarnated as Gaia or, more likely given the time spans, still dead.

As for why any of the others didn't move against us, Emmerololth died when the Isle of Val disappeared (although she also shows up in a cutscene that takes place later; since the Val/Eureka scenes were made years later, I'm assuming her death is a retcon). Altima and Deudalaphon's masks were carried by Gaius when he turned up as Shadowhunter, but we never actually saw them on-screen, and Pashtarot and Halmarut are complete unknowns at this point. Frankly, nobody can really say why they did or didn't do anything until or unless they actually show up.

Incidentally, we also haven't heard from Travanchet in a long time. He was active in Legacy, had a brief cameo in Alexander, and then just sorta fell off the map.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

I think that's giving the writers way too much credit. You can draw those parallels about hardcore raiders and XIV's game design with Zenos, but I doubt they made them intentional. They just thought giving the WoL a forced rival would be "cool". No way the people who brought us depression bird and a smile better suits a hero thought any deeper than that.

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I hardly think it's too much credit WRT Zenos, it's not a hard comparison to make or a hard theme to write, regardless of how little you think about the writing team. For most of his character up through SHB, it might be a stretch, but Zenos's whole last speech is practically bashing at the fourth wall with being about gamers killing bosses, only to then go "don't you wanna fight me, playe-- adventurer??"

Especially since it comes almost directly after Emet staring into the camera to talk about future expansions, telling the player to "please look forward to it". They're both meant as speeches to appeal to the player to stick around and see what's next to come (instead of quitting the game), it's just that Emet tries to entice you with the cool new zones you could see, and Zenos tries to entice you with the new bosses there'll be to kill.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

I enjoy that this thread is still going strong. Wonder if we'll get a dawntrail version too.

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I'm sure we will. A similar thread has existed for every expansion. This one just got as big as it did because the size of the playerbase itself exploded in size, so there are more people to post, and there are a lot of players who really enjoyed this expansion, so the thread that typically ends up being just the few who want an echo chamber to gripe instead actually got pushback that turned into pages of arguments.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

I enjoy that this thread is still going strong. Wonder if we'll get a dawntrail version too.

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If/when Dawntrail is bad, I'm sure there will be one. I really am hoping it's good, so I can eat my hat and such.

The prospect is dubious but not outside of the realm of possibility.

To keep me depressed by bringing my favorite chars back and taking them away....

The storywriters giveth and the storywriters taketh away.

Nael was right...

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Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

There was one made, in bad faith, a few months ago that fell off. I don't think one will be needed to this extent.

Even if DT story is worse than EW, it won't have the same impact. EW was a drastic re-adjustment to how I personally think about the story, as in, I enjoyed it before, now I don't. Many fundamental parts and mysteries of the setting were resolved outright. Some of the things people love or hate about the world of FFXIV as of 6.5 are now load-bearing pillars to the setting. Example: Person A had investment in the void plot. Void plot has now happened, and Person A didn't like it. So in any future void-adjacent story, Person A will know better than to be excited for, or at least, will have less investment in it.

If we start at "This is good." or "I don't know what I feel." and move to "I now actively dislike this.", that is more of a shock than starting from a position of "This is bad" and moving to "This is now good/better." due to negativity bias and we cannot unroll the dice of EW.

DT will be free from that baggage, but I'm not wasting my investment a second time. Fool me once, and all that.

The less relevant EW is to DT, the better. That includes any lingering feelings, or lack thereof, as well.

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You put into words perfectly how Endwalker made me feel about the story. This is also the reason I hate the Endwalker alliance raids. The gods were done incredibly dirty with the ending of those, imo. I loved the raids up until the last boss in Thaleia, which ruined the whole thing for me big time.

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

You put into words perfectly how Endwalker made me feel about the story. This is also the reason I hate the Endwalker alliance raids. The gods were done incredibly dirty with the ending of those, imo. I loved the raids up until the last boss in Thaleia, which ruined the whole thing for me big time.

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Genuine question, as am curious - what was it about Eulogia that ruined it all for you?

This thread is the actual content of Endwalker, been here for more than 2 years and regularly updated unlike some game i know ...:3