#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

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Originally Posted by Fandele

In my previous mmo, there was actually a third option, which was an HoT focused healer. It was very strategic, in a similar way to the shield healers, but you'd stack various HoT's on the tank/party to try to match the damage input. There were a couple instant emergency heals available if you needed them, but which were also grossly inefficient and/or had a very long (5 min) recast. This same job also had a Dot-centric damage model. I actually enjoyed the heck out of it. I'd love to see something like that make an appearance in 14.

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Mmm, and ideally such a thing would be possible here. Unfortunately, however, we have a raiding paradigm wherein certain attacks from the enemy simply cannot be 'healed' through. They do more than 100% of our Max HP, and serve to 'require' mitigation to survive. With that in mind, the 'sliding scale design' would mean that, in a WHM/AST comp, rather than the current situation of 'it doesn't work', I'd have it so AST is given ways to be the 'Mitigator' (eg by bringing back Nocturnal Sect, which reduces throughput of skills like Earthly Star but attaches Mitigation effects to them), but has little to no access to Barriers. On the flip side, I'd make WHM have access to Barriers (as a Lily spender), but little to no access to Mitigation (outside of Temperance). Thus, the two would need to work together, and cover each other's 'blindspots' if paired together. Similarly, SGE would take the lead on 'Pure healing' in a SCH/SGE comp. This hypothetical '5th healer' that is equal Pure/Barrier, would be flexible and adapt to their partner on a fight-by-fight basis, focusing more Pure healing output when with a SCH/SGE, and more on Mitigation when with a WHM/AST

An entirely HOT focused (eg what I suggested, but it doesn't have the mitigative half of the gameplay) job sounds cool on paper, and it can be in other games (where damage is faster paced, multiple hits, and doesn't instantly take us from 100% to -20%), but here it'd mean another 2 nonfunctional comps in raiding (WHM/new, and AST/new, to go with our current WHM/AST), and I'd rather reduce the number, not increase it

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

An entirely HOT focused (eg what I suggested, but it doesn't have the mitigative half of the gameplay) job sounds cool on paper, and it can be in other games (where damage is faster paced, multiple hits, and doesn't instantly take us from 100% to -20%), but here it'd mean another 2 nonfunctional comps in raiding (WHM/new, and AST/new, to go with our current WHM/AST), and I'd rather reduce the number, not increase it

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Speaking of regens, there's actually a way they can make it work better.

Imagine if you have a healer that can stack HoTs to an absurd level, then damage taken is partially mitigated by the HoT, so the attack deals 10% less damage but that damage will erase a portion of the active HoT.

That way, all the ticking HoTs can contribute to the mitigation and so the regen healers wouldn't be useless in a mitigation check. But the mitigation also comes at a cost, so you have to plan when you want to use it because it will weaken your HoT.

We actually do have a way to allow pure healers a chance to handle huge damage spikes while at the same time not use shields and mitigations. We use an ability to raise the target(s') maximum HP and increase the healing they receive from healing GCD (and maybe oGCD too) spells. It exists in the game already, except on the "wrong class" SCH through Protraction.

Possibly gives this to the WHM instead and make a party wide version with charges that take 60 - 120 seconds to regain one. If we go by ForsakenRoe's ideas, SGE would get the best version if they are on the deepest end of the pure healer spectrum. The current WHM is the best class to utilize such a boost to GCD healing spells due to the presence of the lily spells being needed to get Afflatus Misery juiced up. This could make a regen healer (Warcraft Druid comes to mind) pretty strong too with their HoTs ticking for more healing on a high Max HP ally.

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Originally Posted by Tigore

We actually do have a way to allow pure healers a chance to handle huge damage spikes while at the same time not use shields and mitigations. We use an ability to raise the target(s') maximum HP and increase the healing they receive from healing GCD (and maybe oGCD too) spells. It exists in the game already, except on the "wrong class" SCH through Protraction.

Possibly gives this to the WHM instead and make a party wide version with charges that take 60 - 120 seconds to regain one. If we go by ForsakenRoe's ideas, SGE would get the best version if they are on the deepest end of the pure healer spectrum. The current WHM is the best class to utilize such a boost to GCD healing spells due to the presence of the lily spells being needed to get Afflatus Misery juiced up. This could make a regen healer (Warcraft Druid comes to mind) pretty strong too with their HoTs ticking for more healing on a high Max HP ally.

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Perhaps a it could be added as a bonus effect for Plenary (if given to WHM), since that already increases how much healing you're doing, it'd synergise with this new effect of 'also your Max HP is increased'?

Yeah. That could work. Divine Benison and Protraction could probably have their effects swapped with each other to get the single target versions.

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

Also, seems a bit tonedeaf to say to players who play an MMO, a genre known for 'players invest a lot of time into their chosen game', to simply up sticks and move to another one. Especially when the one they've invested time into, had what they desired already. That's why they invested the time in the first place. Do you think I'd have spent several thousand hours on this game, if my whole journey was as 'enjoyable' as how it's been with Dawntrail so far?

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It had what you desired.

It no longer does.

SE is showing no interest in bringing it back despite pages of feedback.

What do you gain by refusing to try other games that might currently have something you would enjoy? It's not like I was saying "quit FFXIV". I was saying try others to see if you get a better healing experience. It is possible to play 2 MMORPGs at the same time. There are a lot of players already doing that. There are parts of each game they enjoy. Perhaps you'll find your healing itch getting scratched by one of the others while you also continue to play FFXIV for what you still enjoy about it.

I don't think ForsakenRoe is refusing to play other games per say. She posted how empowered spell casting worked from the direct competitor Warcraft. I didn't even know about it beforehand since I am actually unsubscribed from Warcraft ever since the Shadowlands expansion. There comes a point where the second chances we give to a company start to dwindle too. I had decided to not get into the Dragonflight expansion hype for the first time. The news I heard seem to be mixed overall. The art teams are still trying really hard, but the story is still faltering on some spots. The gameplay is still largely similar where harder grouped raiding has a very high focus with lower levels of casual content still hitting the back burner. The Heroic queue (equivalent to Expert 4 man) is probably still there, but the rewards were trash compared to the solo world quests.

I used to be in the harder raiding groups from Warcraft, but most of my friends left. I was wanting the Heroic queues and Mythic Zeros to mean something with the few friends left. The story needed massive upgrading too since it was clear some characters were Blizz favourites despite other characters deserving some spotlight love. I think the FF14 fans here can understand that sentiment with Wuk Lamat shoving Krile and Erenville away from the spotlight, right?

After reading through some of these this sounds sort of like some of this is related to the fact that people really don't need healing in this style of game. The more skilled the players generally get, the less healing they need, and the more the healer gets stuck spamming their DPS keys. So having a healer strike is kind of like begging for more stupid people that get hit by mechanics. Except the game actively teaches people to avoid these mechanics or gives them debuffs that render healing pointless after a while.

Also, alternative sources of healing exist in the game in terms of skills on other jobs, which is basically like the single player game problem where people can buy dozens of potions. Ironically, they sort of thought of this and made potions that heal useless at end game, but why does that matter if I literally got a free potion via skill through second wind and then also have bloodbath? As a dps we have a magical, often forgotten ability called "DODGE THE FREAKING ATTACK!" that seems to be forgotten in M3S for some reason, and if someone is dodging things, they never need healing from a third party because they can self heal often enough to not need the help.

And the third problem is that the fights that render the self healing useless do it in the most boring and least organic way possible. They just spam bleeds to neutralize the healing from players, or spam the living hell out of AOE skills that are unavoidable and take out huge chunks of HP.

You gotta love the DPS mains who start playing healer for the quick queues and easy PF spots, and act like they're king of the world because of it.
I just tried to make an M4S group. we finally filled, and started picking our positions. Scholar takes H1, but White Mage doesn't move at all. We're waiting for a minute or so before White Mage just leaves out of nowhere. Scholar leaves too, but I don't blame him given what happens next.
White Mage joins back in a minute later, and goes "Sorry, had to prove a point." I won't give the play by play, but essentially he said that he left because Regen Healer always takes H1, and the Scholar needed to "Learn his place"
Instant Blacklist. I'd rather wait another 20 minutes for two more healers to show up than help someone like that get a clear. (everyone else left after, so I'll get my clear later today, but you get the idea.)
I'd at least **MAYBE** understand if it was the tanks fighting over Main Tank and Off Tank; there's at least some mechanical difference. For healers, it's literally just whether you go left or right.

Add this to the list of reasons why this strike exists. A true healer main would be a better team player who can adapt better. If/When we get some good changes to the role, all the skilled players will start coming back to the role.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

And the third problem is that the fights that render the self healing useless do it in the most boring and least organic way possible. They just spam bleeds to neutralize the healing from players, or spam the living hell out of AOE skills that are unavoidable and take out huge chunks of HP.

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At base, healing has never been interesting in this game, in my opinion.

Well, that's not very charitable... Let's just say it's never been that interesting. With the caveat that this is just my perspective on it as a doctor, the mentally stimulating part of healing comes from identifying the cause or causes of the issue and addressing them as necessary. Of course, I'm really stretching the comparison here since irl medicine has infinitely more factors to deal with that go into the art of it. That said, the part that is prime for "gamification" is exactly "identify and react." The issue as I see it is that the developers have whittled down the concept to the very dichotomy of "number go down, make it go up." This, to be honest, is just... very boring design. I know that, ultimately, what determines whether you're alive or dead really does come down to you either having 1HP or 0, but it is the how you get there, and how you deal with it, and the dynamic between the two, that has to be interesting. Right now, neither are quite there. The problem with this is that it would likely involve major changes to how damage is dealt to you and the party. This could possibly mean an upending on the whole damage system, and that's... very unlikely to occur.

We have been at this for more than 10 years now. SE has built a good amount of momentum when it comes to heal design, and it shows no signs of stopping or changing its trajectory... so while I don't want to be all doom-and-gloom, well... I would recommend setting your expectations low. I know mine have been for quite some time now.