Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Anyway, to people making theories on how female Viera and male Viera could be playable... keep in mind that ARR takes place before Stormblood/Shadowbringers. It doesn't quite make sense to make their home be all destroyed before the Ivalice raid, where Fran kinda implies that they're fine.

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Something something yugiri keeping her mask on in front of an Au Ra WoL

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Originally Posted by zeylos

Sigh I understand you wouldn't like seeing them before 6.0 and it's completely understandable but SE can (and most likely will) prioritize whichever content makes them most money, so male Viera is possibly one of their priorities since it would make them much more money than a dungeon no one is gonna run

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As has been pointed out to you on multiple occasions, they're highly unlikely to embrace it as a priority for a number of reasons. It's a disappointment that Viera men aren't currently a thing, though it isn't the apocalyptic event that some here are making it out to be.

The worst thing that the development team could do right now would be to rush the creation of Viera men to release early on in Shadowbringers. They'd suffer from all sorts of shortcuts, animation issues and clipping issues.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

The worst thing that the development team could do right now would be to rush the creation of Viera men to release early on in Shadowbringers. They'd suffer from all sorts of shortcuts, animation issues and clipping issues.

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And if it comes at the cost of PvE content, then it's even worse. It's a lose-lose situation.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

As has been pointed out to you on multiple occasions, they're highly unlikely to embrace it as a priority for a number of reasons. It's a disappointment that Viera men aren't currently a thing, though it isn't the apocalyptic event that some here are making it out to be.

The worst thing that the development team could do right now would be to rush the creation of Viera men to release early on in Shadowbringers. They'd suffer from all sorts of shortcuts, animation issues and clipping issues.

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Imo if we get them by mid-end ShB would already be good enough. If not, welp, I don't care. Getting it would already be good enough.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

It's not a case of not liking to see them before then, but whether they can feasibly drop planned PVE content for the sake of adding a new race in a matter of two and a bit months. Unless they're hiding a surprise, I would not expect them soon. It also then ceases to be a potential selling point for 6.0. I'd like for them to do it as early as 5.0, but it's just not that probable.

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I get it though. I can also understand that some ppl would be very annoyed at having less pve content, I myself wouldn't mind having a little bit less things if it meant male Viera at launch but I do obviously understand that its very unlikely unless they have a surprise like u said which I'm not gonna expect in order to not get my hopes up and crashed down to the ground. I do still think they might release them sooner than 6.0 but if be totally fine waiting if we at least got a response and 1 or 2 in game to see how they look like

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Originally Posted by Theodric

As has been pointed out to you on multiple occasions, they're highly unlikely to embrace it as a priority for a number of reasons. It's a disappointment that Viera men aren't currently a thing, though it isn't the apocalyptic event that some here are making it out to be.

The worst thing that the development team could do right now would be to rush the creation of Viera men to release early on in Shadowbringers. They'd suffer from all sorts of shortcuts, animation issues and clipping issues.

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Valid point here. I also wouldn't like them looking as bad as hrotgar in the trailer and maybe even worse. Though I wouldn't mind having something like the new races such as not showing head gear on them or making some gear look the same or something if it meant we could get them sooner, but this is just my opinion

Youll know when they get implemented is that there will be a MSQ cutscene or relevant trial thatll display one. Once you see thta, its all but guaranteed. But again, we probably wont see that till later - 5.3 at the very earliest (if htey make it a priority and rush it) and 6.0 the more likely time. So...one - two years.

Well basically same pattern
Merlwyb shows up
Yuguri shows up
Fran shows up
Then probably some female Hrothgar will pop up keep up the pattern of female previews

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Originally Posted by Duskane

Well basically same pattern
Merlwyb shows up
Yuguri shows up
Fran shows up
Then probably some female Hrothgar will pop up keep up the pattern of female previews

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I like that! Maybe the Helion's queen at some unspecified point in the 5.x series, they could justify keeping her covered up or something in case the model's not quite ready :D

It's a real shame that we don't have more prominent male Xaela/Raen characters involved in the story. I think they look pretty great.

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Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage

I like that! Maybe the Helion's queen at some unspecified point in the 5.x series, they could justify keeping her covered up or something in case the model's not quite ready :D

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After reading the Helion lore I'm even more interested in seeing the female Hrothgar, especially the Helion queen.

A Helion queen would definitely be a fun and interesting addition to the story. Maybe conflict between the Helions and the Lost over the legitimacy of the queen's rule.

I'm liking the lore and I think the developers could squeeze out some good storytelling out of it.

And I can visualize the announcement of female Hrothgar through the reveal of the Helion queen.

I can imagine female hrothgar to be very snobby and proud

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's a real shame that we don't have more prominent male Xaela/Raen characters involved in the story. I think they look pretty great.

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Why thank you kind ser.

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/f/c...jpg?1556097223
Cleric's Robe Set you get them after the lvl 50 White Mage quest. I really like these robes. :)

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Yeah nah, the earliest you can expect female Hrothgar and male Viera is 6.0. Unless they start working on them right now (which is unlikely because they're currently working on making sure Shadowbringers releases without any issues and then will go on a vacation), you should not/never expect male Viera during a patch day (and if they did, but it came at the cost of playable content, I know I would not be happy about that). Edit: an NPC might be likely, but only in 5.5.

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Originally Posted by zeylos

Sigh I understand you wouldn't like seeing them before 6.0 and it's completely understandable but SE can (and most likely will) prioritize whichever content makes them most money, so male Viera is possibly one of their priorities since it would make them much more money than a dungeon no one is gonna run

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It's weird that some of you think the devs would just scrap content for something else instead of just delaying its release.

sigh to think all of this would've been avoided if SE decided to do what they promised in 1.0 and give us whichever of the 2 races but as an actual race and not the half baked thing we got now.
Claiming there are 2 new race is like claiming BLU is an actual job lol

I rather think, from what little I know of the lore, that they made these Viera genderlocked, for lore reasons, and brought in the furry race to even things out, for similar reasons. I doubt they will be bringing male versions anytime soon, if they are confirmed genderlocked. Only way I can see them bringing in male/female variants of either would be if there was enough community uproar for them. For Viera, let's just get this out of the way, it would have been 9/10 female to males anyway.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I rather think, from what little I know of the lore, that they made these Viera genderlocked, for lore reasons, and brought in the furry race to even things out, for similar reasons. I doubt they will be bringing male versions anytime soon, if they are confirmed genderlocked. Only way I can see them bringing in male/female variants of either would be if there was enough community uproar for them. For Viera, let's just get this out of the way, it would have been 9/10 female to males anyway.

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First of all lore reason has been debunked 10000 times already. Second of all look at male miqote and you will realize that there is many many ppl that like sexy male races and third reason male Viera would have sold 60 or 70 times more than hrotgar. Also there IS enough of an uproar in the community for them to be playable and trust me when I tell u I'm almost 100% sure well get male viera, the only question is when

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Originally Posted by zeylos

Sigh I understand you wouldn't like seeing them before 6.0 and it's completely understandable but SE can (and most likely will) prioritize whichever content makes them most money, so male Viera is possibly one of their priorities since it would make them much more money than a dungeon no one is gonna run

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How do you figure? I think if it turns out we have a content dropoff because they had to reshuffle resources around to accommodate for Male and female genders to the races I am willing to bet the backlash would surpass what we are seeing now. More people would he impacted by lack of content, then lack of genders.

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Originally Posted by zeylos

First of all lore reason has been debunked 10000 times already. Second of all look at male miqote and you will realize that there is many many ppl that like sexy male races and third reason male Viera would have sold 60 or 70 times more than hrotgar. Also there IS enough of an uproar in the community for them to be playable and trust me when I tell u I'm almost 100% sure well get male viera, the only question is when

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I don't know where you are getting your numbers from, honestly. Aside from that, if that is truly the case then why would they bother even making hrothgar who look like there was more effort put into them than the female viera? It probably would have been low effort to just make a male variant of them comparatively.Gender* locking these is a conscious choice, I'm just wondering why.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Racially locking these is a conscious choice, I'm just wondering why.

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They explained it. They wanted to add Hrothgar because there were requests for a more beastly race, and they would diverse the available races as basically everything other than Lalafell is some variation of Hyur - Hroths' heads and faces in particular are the farthest we've seen so far.
But then came the issue with the females, and them having added Fran to the Ivalice raid questline. They couldn't add her without enormous backlash at the much requested Viera being in the game but not playable, so they decided to shaft the Hroth females in favor of female Viera. (so let's only diversify the males and give females Elezen with bunny ears)

tl;dr Hroths were decided on first, it seems, but then they forced their own hand with the addition of Fran.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I rather think, from what little I know of the lore, that they made these Viera genderlocked, for lore reasons, and brought in the furry race to even things out, for similar reasons. I doubt they will be bringing male versions anytime soon, if they are confirmed genderlocked. Only way I can see them bringing in male/female variants of either would be if there was enough community uproar for them. For Viera, let's just get this out of the way, it would have been 9/10 female to males anyway.

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Lore can't be a valid reason for genderlocks for four reasons.

1. WHM - You're literally supposed to be the ONLY ONE outside of Padjal
2. SMN - You're lliterally supposed to be the only one.
3. BLM - There's only like... 2 of you at best.
4. SCH - You're supposed to be the only one that's not a Tonberry.

All of these classes are far rarer than Male Viera or Female Hrothgar could ever hope to be. But you can have an Alliance with 6 WHM and like.. all BLM/SMN if you want. Why is this race thing the hill to die on? The multitude of people playing these classes alone should kill immersion.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

They explained it. They wanted to add Hrothgar because there were requests for a more beastly race, and they would diverse the available races as basically everything other than Lalafell is some variation of Hyur - Hroths' heads and faces in particular are the farthest we've seen so far.
But then came the issue with the females, and them having added Fran to the Ivalice raid questline. They couldn't add her without enormous backlash at the much requested Viera being in the game but not playable, so they decided to shaft the Hroth females in favor of female Viera. (so let's only diversify the males and give females Elezen with bunny ears)

tl;dr Hroths were decided on first, it seems, but then they forced their own hand with the addition of Fran.

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So they just chose the quick way out, and made a calculated choice to make the gender that would probably be played most?

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

So they just chose the quick way out, and made a calculated choice to make the gender that would probably be played most?

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Or they chose to make female Viera because they are cheaper and not as much costly. Reusing assets, a blessing for SE.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

So they just chose the quick way out

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I don't think they did. Viera and Hroths, even if it's "only" one gender per, each provide their own unique issues. look at the headgear lock - chances are modifications made to allow female Viera to wear a helmet would allow the males to wear them, too - whereas male Hroths will need different adjustments, most likely. Hroths also require textures and assets Viera wouldn't use and vice versa - whereas males and females of the same race would likely have the same, say, fur styles if we're talking about Hroths.
I do think they made a very difficult choice and set themselves up for more work within the context of a single race - consisting of one male option and one female option, two clans per gender. I still think it was a dumb decision all things considered.

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and made a calculated choice to make the gender that would probably be played most?

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No one has the numbers but look at how played male Roes are compared to male Miqo'te, and tell me again they went with the option that will be played more.

i feel a big reason we have viera is because the ff12 remaster and just could work with frans and some other npc vieras model

They should have just given us the actual Viera race which was the most requested, but I do see why they wanted to make hrotgar. The only issue with then making hrotgar and not a full Viera race is that they didn't make hrotgar, they only made 1 gender of hrotgar. They should have either removed Fran from the raid and given us hrotgar actual race or given us full Viera race, not the dumb thing we got. Then in the next expansion give us the other race, not have to wait for who knows how long to get something they promised back in 1.0 we would never have to wait for(a.k.a they promised no gender lock, so we wouldn't have to wait for genders to be unlocked)

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Originally Posted by Awha

How do you figure? I think if it turns out we have a content dropoff because they had to reshuffle resources around to accommodate for Male and female genders to the races I am willing to bet the backlash would surpass what we are seeing now. More people would he impacted by lack of content, then lack of genders.

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I don't think there would be any backlash considering that they wouldn't have promised that specific content and nobody would even know it's missing, while they did promise no genderlocked races, EVER, back in1.0

Guys I got an idea. The biggest reason why they say it's hard to make new model is gear ringing, so why don't they just take another model and change it a bit and change it's head? Similar to what they did with the hrotgar but with eleven model maybe. Add different animations and racial gear and done. The only gear they'd have to ring is headgear and I doubt many ppl would mind not having it visible since it's also not visible on new races. If they took this path they could do male viera fast and without many issues and I think it'd be waaaay better than what we currently have

https://66.media.tumblr.com/2302df47...r3jo2_1280.jpg
Wow
Amazing art by runescratch tumblr

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Originally Posted by zeylos

Guys I got an idea. The biggest reason why they say it's hard to make new model is gear ringing, so why don't they just take another model and change it a bit and change it's head? Similar to what they did with the hrotgar but with eleven model maybe. Add different animations and racial gear and done. The only gear they'd have to ring is headgear and I doubt many ppl would mind not having it visible since it's also not visible on new races. If they took this path they could do male viera fast and without many issues and I think it'd be waaaay better than what we currently have

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Honestly I think all races bodies are made from the same two base models (male/female). We know the devs use ZBrush as a staple tool in their development. The beauty of ZBrush is that it allows you to alter models you have created on a separate new layer without affecting the base model beneath. A common development trend in modelling high poly assets, is to just use a base model that already has all the integral topology and geometry in place and then simply just alter it on a separate layer to then save off as a new asset. This is why we tend to see very similar details in the races body types.

A new variant of the base male mesh for Viera would of course cause clipping issues with current gear assets...those assets would need to be altered in places where a clipping anomaly has appeared with the new body proportions. However this does not mean creating a whole new asset for the gear. Just like with the body models it would be a case of editing the base gear asset on a new layer to match that of the male Viera. This would most likely just be resizing certain parts of the asset to remove clipping issues and possibly re-skinning certain vertices that may not work correctly with the new racial animations.

Your idea of simply just taking an existing races variant of the base mesh and just replacing the head would indeed work....however that means the male Viera would have bodies identical to what ever races body type they were "cloned" from. Personally I would much rather wait for the devs to develop a new body variant for the male Viera. Even if that means waiting till 6.0

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Originally Posted by SoloWingMetatron

Honestly I think all races bodies are made from the same two base models (male/female). We know the devs use ZBrush as a staple tool in their development. The beauty of ZBrush is that it allows you to alter models you have created on a separate new layer without affecting the base model beneath. A common development trend in modelling high poly assets, is to just use a base model that already has all the integral topology and geometry in place and then simply just alter it on a separate layer to then save off as a new asset. This is why we tend to see very similar details in the races body types.

A new variant of the base male mesh for Viera would of course cause clipping issues with current gear assets...those assets would need to be altered in places where a clipping anomaly has appeared with the new body proportions. However this does not mean creating a whole new asset for the gear. Just like with the body models it would be a case of editing the base gear asset on a new layer to match that of the male Viera. This would most likely just be resizing certain parts of the asset to remove clipping issues and possibly re-skinning certain vertices that may not work correctly with the new racial animations.

Your idea of simply just taking an existing races variant of the base mesh and just replacing the head would indeed work....however that means the male Viera would have bodies identical to what ever races body type they were "cloned" from. Personally I would much rather wit for the devs to develop a new body variant for the male Viera. Even if that means waiting till 6.0

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Well, female viera are elezen body with hyur chest, and hrotgar are reskinned roegadyns.
Also I didnt mean exact same as elezen but something like with female viera (elezen body and slightly altered) which wouldn't cause that many clipping issues.
I don't really think that we shouldn't care about waiting 2 years to get something that was promised to us in the first place but that's just my personal opinion, and I do get your point but I wouldn't mind having them look like elezen personally

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...031&height=580
it is true everyone is built on mid landers you can tell sometimes if you have some massive lag or DC that you'll will just go into default mid lander stance
here i am just doing mid landers default stance as au ra

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Originally Posted by Duskane

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...031&height=580
it is true everyone is built on mid landers you can tell sometimes if you have some massive lag or DC that you'll will just go into default mid lander stance
here i am just doing mid landers default stance as au ra

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Yeah I think they use it as a base for every model just like you'd use a ball as a starting material maybe they use the midlander body and they change it arround

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Originally Posted by zeylos

Well, female viera are elezen body with hyur chest, and hrotgar are reskinned roegadyns.
Also I didnt mean exact same as elezen but something like with female viera (elezen body and slightly altered) which wouldn't cause that many clipping issues.
I don't really think that we shouldn't care about waiting 2 years to get something that was promised to us in the first place but that's just my personal opinion, and I do get your point but I wouldn't mind having them look like elezen personally

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The female Viera body is a new variation on the female base mesh. Although they are of similar stature to Elezen, their proportions are different (Elezen have noticeably longer arms and necks) so it's not like they straight up took the Hyur/Elezan body types and just spliced them together (that would break the topology and geometry of the mesh) So it would have been a fresh edit on the base mesh.

Hrothgar are the same. They do appear very similar to Roe's in proportions. However the Hrothgar have a thinner waistline creating a more triangle look rather than a barrel or column that the Roe's sport. Hroth also have slight variations in muscle mass. Their calves appear more sculpted creating more shape to the legs.

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Originally Posted by SoloWingMetatron

The female Viera body is anew variation on the female base mesh. Although they are of similar stature to Elezen, their proportion are different (Elezen have noticeably longer arms and necks) so it's not like they straight up took the Hyur/Elezan body types and just spliced them together (that would break the topology and geometry if the mesh. So it would have been a fresh edit on the base mesh.

Hrothgar are the same. They do appear very similar to Roe's in proportions. However the Hrothgar have a thinner waistline creating a more triangle look rather than a barrel or column that the Roe's sport. Hroth also have slight variations in muscle mass. Their calves appear more sculpted created more shape to the legs.

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Sorry I forgot to mention that I would certainly change the neck from elezen body, which would be as much of a change as that of hrotgar (which was probably done in 2-3 months lets be honest here)

Also guys im curious to know why do u all seem to be fine with waiting 2 years for male viera (really, I wanna see your prespective on the subject)
since I think its exremely unfair that they now tell us to wait for 2 hole years (which is a LOT, lets be honest lol) to give us something that they had already promised us on 1.0, so why would you be okay with waiting?

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Originally Posted by Saywihee

Lore can't be a valid reason for genderlocks for four reasons.

1. WHM - You're literally supposed to be the ONLY ONE outside of Padjal
2. SMN - You're lliterally supposed to be the only one.
3. BLM - There's only like... 2 of you at best.
4. SCH - You're supposed to be the only one that's not a Tonberry.

All of these classes are far rarer than Male Viera or Female Hrothgar could ever hope to be. But you can have an Alliance with 6 WHM and like.. all BLM/SMN if you want. Why is this race thing the hill to die on? The multitude of people playing these classes alone should kill immersion.

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I believe DRG is also quite rare. Although some of those jobs are becoming a bit less exclusive now, as you say they're rarer than male Viera would ever be, and particularly WHM. It's really not the issue people make it out to be, and male mooncats have similar lore anyway. When pushed, Yoshi mentioned it was a resource issue, so the lore thing is pretty much beside the point at this stage.

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Originally Posted by zeylos

Sorry I forgot to mention that I would certainly change the neck from elezen body, which would be as much of a change as that of hrotgar (which was probably done in 2-3 months lets be honest here)

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2-3 months dev time would be accurate if that was the artists sole project. However all artists in the dev team will have a number of projects on the go. Another common trend in the dev pipeline is to provide artists with a comprehensive list of all the assets they will need to create. The info on this list would include the type of asset, tri/poly limit (10% leeway usually), diffuse/specular/normal/displacement/height map size limit, as well as a deadline for each asset to be completed.

So when an artist has to work through this list they will have to prioritize, which unfortunately means male Viera would likely fall lower on their list. So with that being said, I believe it is unrealistic to put faith into seeing male Viera being implemented early in the 5.x cycle.

As much as I would love for them to appear on launch or by 5.1, I would much rather they took their time and made an asset that's of top quality and worthy to be a male Viera. I'm happy to wait till 6.0 if that's how long it would take to keep that level of quality. All I would like from the devs at this point is simply just confirmation that they are coming.

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Originally Posted by zeylos

Also guys im curious to know why do u all seem to be fine with waiting 2 years for male viera (really, I wanna see your prespective on the subject)
since I think its exremely unfair that they now tell us to wait for 2 hole years (which is a LOT, lets be honest lol) to give us something that they had already promised us on 1.0, so why would you be okay with waiting?

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I'd rather wait than get a model with the most basic of edits, which could be replicated by just playing Elezen or Midlander with bunny ears.

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Originally Posted by SoloWingMetatron

2-3 months dev time would be accurate if that was the artists sole project. However all artists in the dev team will have a number of projects on the go. Another common trend in the dev pipeline is to provide artists with a comprehensive list of the all the assets they will need to create. The info on this list would include the type of asset, tri/poly limit (10% leeway usually), diffuse/specular/normal/displacement/height map size limit, as well as a deadline for each asset to be completed.

So when an artist has to work through this list they will have to prioritize, which unfortunately means male Viera would likely fall lower on their list. So with that being said, I believe it is unrealistic to put faith into seeing male Viera being implemented early in the 5.x cycle.

As much as I would love for them to appear on launch or by 5.1, I would much rather they took their time and made an asset that's of top quality and worthy to be a male Viera. I'm happy to wait till 6.0 if that's how long it would take to keep that level of quality. All I would like from the devs at this point is simply just confirmation that they are coming.

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We also have to consider that they want to see through more comprehensive graphics updates, particularly regarding their existing assets which need to be converted to high res textures - they've yet to commit to it or confirm they're doing it but it's something they would like to do alongside improvements to the graphics system. 6.0 is likely when the spec will go up, and it would make for a big selling point for a game that has yet to peak. The last thing I'd want them to do is put aside overall improvements to the textures and graphics engine in order to rush out male Viera and female Hrothgar. I'd rather wait for a more comprehensive upgrade, if one is in the cards.

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Originally Posted by zeylos

Also guys im curious to know why do u all seem to be fine with waiting 2 years for male viera (really, I wanna see your prespective on the subject)
since I think its exremely unfair that they now tell us to wait for 2 hole years (which is a LOT, lets be honest lol) to give us something that they had already promised us on 1.0, so why would you be okay with waiting?

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It takes alot of effort to make a race and no sense rushing it ,
I really dont expect them till 7.0 and if they are not in by then really when ill questions "where are they" or "whats the deal".

They were never promised to us and there reasoning is fine viera and beast race to please as much people as they could.

It's better to support the devs and the inclusion of M viera and F hroth instead of demand for them right away.