Bard - they broke my job

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Originally Posted by Inferiae

So by your logic, all BRDs and MCHs must have a second job, while everyone else is good. And the whole "support DPS" thing is bullshit, since most of the DPS jobs have some degree of utility sometimes much better than BRD's (Trick Attack, Battle Litany?).


But still, I don't mind BRD's DPS at all, specially since I can be top DPS very often, it's just that your argument is nonsense.

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I'm top DPS like BRD/MCH in DF too...but with my static, my mates are good players, I mean, at the same skill lvl, BRD and MCH do less damage, if You are top DPS with your static, I'm sorry, but your mates are not doing the best with their jobs.

Every player with BRD or MCH like main job does not need to have a second job if He does not want it, but If You wanna be useful during every encounter, It's a good idea have other Jobs and help as mach as possible to your team.

For instance, during A3, my static does not need support, then I play like NIN, and when I'm gonna use Trick Attack, I used to notice that to my mates for max damage output, It's just an idea. Like BRD or MCH I used to do less damage than NIN, like 10-15% and Trick Attack used to be a bit better than Foe or Hypercharge...this means more damage from my part and more damage to my party. Boss is killed quickily and token farm turn a bit smooth just changing my job :).

while it is true that if you want max dps you have to stand still, bard is still a viable dps and has some utility like mana/tp/foe songs
there are parses of a bard in Alexander 1 doing 1230 dps in a 2 min 40 fight. Up to 2 min 20 there is still only one boss so its mostly single target dps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwfcTXtjXKA

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Originally Posted by Esanelle

while it is true that if you want max dps you have to stand still, bard is still a viable dps and has some utility like mana/tp/foe songs
there are parses of a bard in Alexander 1 doing 1230 dps in a 2 min 40 fight. Up to 2 min 20 there is still only one boss so its mostly single target dps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwfcTXtjXKA

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BRD and MCH are not bad DPS, They are doing just a bit less damage than other pure DPS jobs at the same skill level, like 10-15% less, during 2.x You can do the same DPS than other pure DPS job if a lot of movement was needed, but right now, You are casting too, then during high movement situations, You lose DPS too.

I always felt like BRD did less damage because of mobility and uptime, not because of the support songs - which have a built in nerf that I don't agree with, but that's a whole other can of worms. Point being, gaining mobility and losing a small amount of DPS always felt fair to me before.

Now they want us to gain DPS but be locked in place as a trade off. Again, sounds fair enough. Except we're still not pulling the numbers of, say, an equally geared/skilled BLM. And if these forums are to be believed, that shoudl never be the case because BRD can turn off WM and become mobile again. So apparently even the option of mobility means we should still be weaker? It's a poorly thought out mess as it stands.

That said, I'm at least glad they buffed WM so I don't feel like I'm dragging my team down by playing my favorite job.

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Originally Posted by Tonberrian

That said, I'm at least glad they buffed WM so I don't feel like I'm dragging my team down by playing my favorite job.

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You may want to use this time to explore other jobs, you may realize BRD is no longer your favorite class.

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Originally Posted by PopeHat

You may want to use this time to explore other jobs, you may realize BRD is no longer your favorite class.

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Ya, but today I never logged in because I am too pissed off. Last time I was like this I quit playing EQ2 a month later. Before that it was WOW, a month before the new expansion.

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Originally Posted by Greywolfamakir

-snip

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plz be so kind to define for me what u think are support classes cause the way it is a support class brings a good portion of utility into a fight.

now lets see BRD brings manareg/tpreg/extra magic dmg to boss for everyone but not all classes can use that kind of stuff and you cant have everything at the same time and we debuff our own dmg while using the regensongs.

MCH is a bit better with his %dmg buffs wich he can switch.

so now DRG brings Extra crit for everyone, and extra dmg to all but again not everyone can use that.

now NIN brings tp reg and extra dmg for everyone wich all ppl can use or MNK extra heal for the whole party and dmg reduce from the boss.

thats just some examples.
so by ur logic all of those classes are indeed support classes and should do less dps but oh wait thats not happening. now im curious ^^

They didn't break brd. They just stopped it being for lazy people. Bard in 2.xx was honestly the most boring class i ever played. I almost fell asleep in raids.

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Originally Posted by MangoChutney

They didn't break brd. They just stopped it being for lazy people. Bard in 2.xx was honestly the most boring class i ever played. I almost fell asleep in raids.

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I can at least understand this mentality. Bard's GCD abilities are very simple, but really they were not that big a part of the play of the class. The problem is they are a fair bit of the damage. This means it's really easy to get 80% and think that's all there is to it. It's that last 20% that most of the play, complexity, and fun come from. Bard only had 4 GCD skills that were actually used on single targets. We kept up our crit buff, kept up our dots, and then went on to our filler. The GCD is very boring when you're not responding instantly to the proc on our crit buff. This is the spot where it got fun and threw a wrench in everything. Now, unless we're reapplying dots, we're deciding in the last third of the CD on whether to do our filler or to respond to the proc. This is what made the GCD skills fun and complex. We never knew what we were going to do until the very last moment.

The other 2/3 of the time we were in the oGCD. This was the biggest part of the play. This was where our minds spent most of our time. The problem here, again, was the reward for optimal play was very minor compared to just rolling one's hand over the keyboard.

This ultimately is the problem with WM. It greatly simplifies the GCD by reducing the number of skills used (our dots are applied as one under WM) and removing the ability to respond instantly to the proc (the only complex bit of our GCD). It then adds a 1.5 sec cast time, effectively doubling our focus on this now simpler than ever aspect of our class. Our oGCD is halved, minimizing the previous focus of the class. WM then adds another oGCD that's casted and on a 15 sec CD to a glass that's already overflowing, creating a very awkward feel.

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Originally Posted by MangoChutney

stopped it being for lazy people.

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They stopped it being for lazy people by making it so that 60% of the time you're just sitting there waiting for an attack to go off instead of having to worry about weaving in all the OGCDs you can to maximize your DPS?

I'm afraid I don't understand that logic.