Binding Coil of Bahamut Discussion

So guess the question now is even if they did use an exploit what was the loot at the end? was it just weapons or was there actually armor too? Does the quest reward anything once you complete it?

Guess the thing now is to see how square responds to this, might actually say that the fight isn't tuned correctly and do something about it or will do nothing more than fix the bug and be done with it.

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Originally Posted by Pellegri

So guess the question now is even if they did use an exploit what was the loot at the end? was it just weapons or was there actually armor too? Does the quest reward anything once you complete it?

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They got a weapon and a wrist piece.

Does SE even have the tools to do individual account rollbacks?

It would have been easier if they didn't clear the boss using the bug rather than requesting a rollback after the deed has been done.

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Originally Posted by Paks

Does SE even have the tools to do individual account rollbacks?

It would have been easier if they didn't clear the boss using the bug rather than requesting a rollback after the deed has been done.

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I say if they were clever enough to find the bug and nice enough to report it in the manner they did, they deserve the spoils (sans the gear). Unless the quest chains off into a new area with amazing stuff or something.

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Originally Posted by Xell

I say if they were clever enough to find the bug and nice enough to report it in the manner they did, they deserve the spoils (sans the gear). Unless the quest chains off into a new area with amazing stuff or something.

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No, no they don't. If they hadn't opened a ticket and tried to keep it hush, SE would know and just out right ban them and fix the bug. SE knows when a boss that has never been killed dies. They should have taken the smart route and just wiped and then opened a ticket.

They deserve nothing but a mild pat on the back for reporting a bug and a slap to the face for exploiting it.

It has been clearly stated by SE that in the event a player/group encounters an enemy that is rendered immobile that they reset the encounter and not attempt to finish it. These guys clearly knew what they were doing and decided to take advantage of this bug. This is something that is in violation of the user agreement. They do not deserve the spoils, but instead harsh punishment for taking advantage of this bug.

https://pay.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...quest_a_relic/

Link that has the info from SE.

I like how upset people are getting over this. Do other MMOs have such a stick in the mud community that want to start a witch hunt every time a bug causes an unintended outcome in a fight? In before the inevitable war between free companies on who beat this fight "legit" first like with Moogle and Garuda. At least this free company has the decency to not spread the method across servers like with just about every exploit that happened in 1.0, and it is pretty damn obvious they don't intend on exploiting it any farther considering they both submitted a ticket detailing the bug and asked for a character roll back. Any sort of punishment on SE's part for these people would be foolish. I could see the headlines on Kotaku now.

"After a month of connection errors, and a launch riddled with problems causing an inability to play, Square Enix bans the first people to beat their hardest dungeon because they failed to properly test the fight."

I am sure that will go over with any potential buyers about as well as the fact they suspended digital sales for weeks and locked character creation on most servers.

I completely agree. They only reported it in hopes to save their own hide. If they really wanted a rollback they would have just wiped and reset the boss and reported it. They had from 80%-0% hp to figure out the boss isn\\'t attacking anymore and all of them decided to exploit the bug and hoped to keep the gear drops if they reported it and "not claim first kill" gimme a break. If you don\\'t want first kill you would have stopped attacking. I think they still all deserve to get banned. They realized se would still figure out they managed to kill the boss through battle logs and submitted the bug only after they killed him. Really ??

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Originally Posted by cherrios489

It has been clearly stated by SE that in the event a player/group encounters an enemy that is rendered immobile that they reset the encounter and not attempt to finish it. These guys clearly knew what they were doing and decided to take advantage of this bug. This is something that is in violation of the user agreement. They do not deserve the spoils, but instead harsh punishment for taking advantage of this bug.

https://pay.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...quest_a_relic/

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You really need to grow up. This is pretty sad you choose to doom players from a game due to an unintended bug. Why act like the FFXIV police when this issue has NOTHING to do with you?

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Originally Posted by cherrios489

It has been clearly stated by SE that in the event a player/group encounters an enemy that is rendered immobile that they reset the encounter and not attempt to finish it. These guys clearly knew what they were doing and decided to take advantage of this bug. This is something that is in violation of the user agreement. They do not deserve the spoils, but instead harsh punishment for taking advantage of this bug.

https://pay.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...quest_a_relic/

Link that has the info from SE.

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They don't deserve the loot, but to decide they deserve "harsh punishment". man you're some sick sadist.

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Originally Posted by SolRising

I completely agree. They only reported it in hopes to save their own hide. If they really wanted a rollback they would have just wiped and reset the boss and reported it. They had from 80%-0% hp to figure out the boss isn\\'t attacking anymore and all of them decided to exploit the bug and hoped to keep the gear drops if they reported it and "not claim first kill" gimme a break. If you don\\'t want first kill you would have stopped attacking. I think they still all deserve to get banned. They realized se would still figure out they managed to kill the boss through battle logs and submitted the bug only after they killed him. Really ??

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Perhaps curiosity got the better of them.

Wiping on Twintania over and over and some people use exploit to get kill.

Even if it was unintentional exploit, you had to use return and reset instance, not abuse the exploit to down the boss and get loot. Don't tell me you cannot see something is wrong if the boss does nothing from 80% to 0%

BAN THEM.

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Originally Posted by SolRising

I completely agree. They only reported it in hopes to save their own hide. If they really wanted a rollback they would have just wiped and reset the boss and reported it. They had from 80%-0% hp to figure out the boss isn\\'t attacking anymore and all of them decided to exploit the bug and hoped to keep the gear drops if they reported it and "not claim first kill" gimme a break. If you don\\'t want first kill you would have stopped attacking. I think they still all deserve to get banned. They realized se would still figure out they managed to kill the boss through battle logs and submitted the bug only after they killed him. Really ??

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Hmm, wipe and lose a chance at lore and 2% durability or win, report bug, get potentially free loot (not likely) and not lose 2 durability. Honestly the witch hunt with this community is staggering. They did the right thing in my book, the loot however they didn't earn.

This is reminding me of the AV exploited kill on Remora, ages ago! Ahhh good times!

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Originally Posted by Medieval

Hmm, wipe and lose a chance at lore and 2% durability or win, report bug, get potentially free loot (not likely) and not lose 2 durability. Honestly the witch hunt with this community is staggering. They did the right thing in my book, the loot however they didn't earn.

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In SE's book they asked the community to reset these types of encounters. It was hard info to miss. I say kudos to reporting a huge exploit but it shouldn't have been finished.

It's not as if they're trying to claim the world first kill or anything. They did their due diligence in reporting the issue. It's in SE's hands now. Personally I don't think two pieces of loot are going to be the end of the world.

On these kills, if you bugged the boss you don't keep killing it. You might fight for another few seconds just to see wtf happened but there is plenty of ways for them to kill themselfs to reset the fight. They should lose the loot and be locked out of coil til next week.

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Originally Posted by Medieval

They did the right thing in my book, the loot however they didn\\\\\\\\'t earn.

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So by your book if someone finds out they can shoplift from a store because their alarm sensor or tag was not working then later they realized they were on camera and went back to the store and apologized and asked if they coild return the goods and reported their alarm sensor broken should have no punishment at all huh? Man I\\\\\\\\'d love to see that in the real world.

No one is witch hunting crap don\\\\\\\\'t even try to justify exploiting a bug. Since when was it ever okay to exploit this type of bug especially on the hardesr boss in the game ? Just because your morales are messed up and you don\\\\\\\\'t see a problem with exploiting a bug don\\\\\\\\'t try to make it seem like its okay and then call everyone else insane for not taking advantage of the situation . The majority of people would not do it. If I had a chance to do that I would not.

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If a player willfully continues to battle an immobilized monster, the player will be in violation of the user agreement. The game logs of violators will be investigated, and those who are found to be in violation may be subject to punishment, such as a character data rollback or account termination.

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http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...f3bbf3f197a43d

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Originally Posted by SolRising

Snoop-a-loop

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Game =/= Real life.

Get in touch with reality. Last I checked, when I tried to ride around on a chicken, I didn't get anywhere

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Originally Posted by SolRising

So by your book if someone finds out they can shoplift from a store because their alarm sensor or tag was not working then later they realized they were on camera and went back to the store and apologized and asked if they coild return the goods and reported their alarm sensor broken should have no punishment at all huh? Man I\\\\\\\\'d love to see that in the real world.

No one is witch hunting crap don\\\\\\\\'t even try to justify exploiting a bug. Since when was it ever okay to exploit this type of bug especially on the hardesr boss in the game ? Just because your morales are messed up and you don\\\\\\\\'t see a problem with exploiting a bug don\\\\\\\\'t try to make it seem like its okay and then call everyone else insane for not taking advantage of the situation . The majority of people would not do it. If I had a chance to do that I would not.

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your logic is faulty. You compare apples to oranges and cry that they aren't bananas.

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Originally Posted by Raiz_Cineris

Game =/= Real life.

Get in touch with reality. Last I checked, when I tried to ride around on a chicken, I didn't get anywhere

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Exactly. If you are going to judge someones morality, make it something worth judging.

So they tagged the quest after T5, aka Bahamut fight?
So now they have a chance to down Bahamut "legit" for world first?
OK then.

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Originally Posted by Cousinjimmy

So they tagged the quest after T5, aka Bahamut fight?
So now they have a chance to down Bahamut "legit" for world first?
OK then.

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Check your fact, There is no Bahamut fight yet.

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Originally Posted by Medieval

your logic is faulty. You compare apples to oranges and cry that they aren't bananas.



Exactly. If you are going to judge someones morality, make it something worth judging.

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I don't need to compare apples to oranges. Exploiting a bug does not need an excuse to be justified. Just stop trying to make it seem like what you would personally do is the right thing to do. You are only making you and the rest of your fc and ls look worse by supporting people who abuse exploits and bugs. If you don't care then please continue to do so.

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Originally Posted by SolRising

I don't need to compare apples to oranges. Exploiting a bug does not need an excuse to be justified. Just stop trying to make it seem like what you would personally do is the right thing to do. You are only making you and the rest of your fc and ls look worse by supporting people who abuse exploits and bugs. If you don't care then please continue to do so.

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I believe I am conducting myself just fine with my opinions. Thank you for your concerns, but honestly don't speak to me like I am doing my FC wrong. I do not believe they are exploiting a bug, they reported it and made it known on a public forum that they are willing to submit to a rollback and loss of loot. I don't think any action needs to be taken besides said rollback/loss of loot. I am curious though, is my opinion so unacceptable that it has no merit? Are you the god child that knows everything and those who dare speak in opposition deserve no voice?

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Originally Posted by Medieval

I believe I am conducting myself just fine with my opinions. Thank you for your concerns, but honestly don't speak to me like I am doing my FC wrong. I do not believe they are exploiting a bug, they reported it and made it known on a public forum that they are willing to submit to a rollback and loss of loot. I don't think any action needs to be taken besides said rollback/loss of loot. I am curious though, is my opinion so unacceptable that it has no merit? Are you the god child that knows everything and those who dare speak in opposition deserve no voice?

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Not attacking you or anything, but judging about what they said with the chimera/hydra bug, in a sense don't the same rules apply here? I mean, freezing at 80% then continuing to kill it, and then even announcing it to the public (where it's could've stayed quiet), wouldn't it have even easier just not to kill it, and report the issue?
I guess each to their own but from my pov they abused it.

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Originally Posted by Medieval

I believe I am conducting myself just fine with my opinions. Thank you for your concerns, but honestly don't speak to me like I am doing my FC wrong. I do not believe they are exploiting a bug, they reported it and made it known on a public forum that they are willing to submit to a rollback and loss of loot. I don't think any action needs to be taken besides said rollback/loss of loot. I am curious though, is my opinion so unacceptable that it has no merit? Are you the god child that knows everything and those who dare speak in opposition deserve no voice?

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Voice your opinion however you like but if you are going to personally quote me then don't get butt hurt when I do the same. Did I say i was the "god child"? Keep up with the insults that has no relevance to the topic. Trust me you have already given yourself and your fc/ls a huge bad rep by supporting this exploit. Feel free to continue though.

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Originally Posted by Phaus

Not attacking you or anything, but judging about what they said with the chimera/hydra bug, in a sense don't the same rules apply here? I mean, freezing at 80% then continuing to kill it, and then even announcing it to the public (where it's could've stayed quiet), wouldn't it have even easier just not to kill it, and report the issue?
I guess each to their own but from my pov they abused it.

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Only hindsight is 20/20. Make no mistake, I believe they'll get banned for this regardless based on how SE has dealt with this sort of thing before, I don't think they should however.

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Originally Posted by SolRising

Voice your opinion however you like but if you are going to personally quote me then don't get butt hurt when I do the same. Did I say i was the "god child"? Keep up with the insults that has no relevance to the topic. Trust me you have already given yourself and your fc/ls a huge bad rep by supporting this exploit. Feel free to continue though.

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http://cdn.riveraveblues.com/wp-cont...the-point2.jpg

They obviously knew what they were doing was wrong, there's no need to debate that. They went ahead and did it anyways, probably just to see what came next - I'd be tempted to do the same. They at least made a ticket and reported it, i'm sure they'll accept the consequences of their actions if SE decide to deploy the ban hammer - which based on their Chimaera/Hydra bug stance they will.

Let Squeenix decide what actions they want to take.
I could understand if this boss was a gateway to another encounter (which it doesn't seem to be - just more lore), so I really don't see any fault if they claim the kill to not be legitimate.

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Originally Posted by Medieval

I believe I am conducting myself just fine with my opinions.

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Your opinion does not matter as that does not fall in line with what SE has said/done.

If your opinion differs, it is of no matter to them. You need to follow and abide by the rules("morals") that they have in place.

I think its funny that anyone is trying to justify it for them. Take a moment and put yourselves in their shoes:

1) You engage the boss, expecting an otherwise normal attempt.
2) At some random percentage, the boss stops behaving as normal.
3) You continue for some short time, expecting the boss to return to normal. At this point it is obviously NOT returning to normal.
4) You make the _conscious decision_ to continue and defeat the encounter.


Point 4 here is where the problem with their thought process lies. They could have just as easily wiped at this point and reported the bug to SE, continuing on as if nothing had happened. Nothing in what was done would require them to _KILL_ the boss. The only reasons you can possibly come up with for completing the kill are 100% self serving. There are zero legitimate reasons you can come up with as to why it would be okay to proceed with a bugged kill in this manner. Just because they are "supposedly" taking the high road and reporting this doesn't negate this fact. The bottom line is that it was done. Maybe they did it, and someone in their FC/LS threatened to report them so they quickly moved into self preservation mode, or maybe they realized that it was possible that their secret got out. Instead, they now have the irreversible damage of access to lore, knowledge, and story that no-one else in the game does, and they are probably crossing their fingers that they get to keep the loot as well. I'm sorry, but I just don't buy this "Good guy guild" mentality.

When the boss magically stops doing anything be it abilities or even normal attacks you would think something may be off about it(especially since it's faily early in the fight when it could happen). This smells like the same kind of thing as LK when he was first released where a guild found an exploit and abused it getting a kill and even though they made it known it was an issue they were still banned for several days for using said exploit and all items/achievements taken from them.

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Originally Posted by Xilrasis

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As I've said, only hindsight is 20/20. What seems like a good idea at the time is stupid after the fact. Lets not forget, with this bug starting at 80% as they said this fight would only last 5 minutes at most from that point? They are trying to right a wrong. The real stupid move they did was make this crap public. All I've seen is witch hunts and defenders of what they did. They asked for a rollback, I'd say give it to them. Will that happen? Honestly no, SE is a bit less lenient than imagined, these guys will probably get banned. I don't agree they should regardless.

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Originally Posted by Medieval

I believe I am conducting myself just fine with my opinions. Thank you for your concerns, but honestly don't speak to me like I am doing my FC wrong. I do not believe they are exploiting a bug, they reported it and made it known on a public forum that they are willing to submit to a rollback and loss of loot. I don't think any action needs to be taken besides said rollback/loss of loot. I am curious though, is my opinion so unacceptable that it has no merit? Are you the god child that knows everything and those who dare speak in opposition deserve no voice?

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It's like committing a crime and then confessing to it. You still committed the crime, they may get a more lenient punishment - the thing about a rollback is that it's not really a punishment, if all I'm going to lose is the items that I got "illegally". It's like robbing a bank and all I have to do is give back the money. It's not a disincentive to committing the crime. It sets a bad precedent for future possible exploits.

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Originally Posted by Medieval

As I've said, only hindsight is 20/20. What seems like a good idea at the time is stupid after the fact. Lets not forget, with this bug starting at 80% as they said this fight would only last 5 minutes at most from that point? They are trying to right a wrong. The real stupid move they did was make this crap public. All I've seen is witch hunts and defenders of what they did. They asked for a rollback, I'd say give it to them. Will that happen? Honestly no, SE is a bit less lenient than imagined, these guys will probably get banned. I don't agree they should regardless.

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The fight would last longer than 5 minutes from this point, and 5 minutes of not being attacked is plenty of time to say "oh, wait, maybe we shouldn't do this!"

I have been in this exact position before, where a boss has stopped attacking and all scripts have stopped working. It took roughly 30 seconds for us to decide among 20 something people that, oh hell, we should stop -- something is wrong here... we might get banned.

They did something stupid, and they are trying to backpedal and play it off like its no big deal now. I don't buy it.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1334623

Above pointed out the end snip that says account rollback to account termination. I'm not an expert, but seeing as they confessed promptly, I'd hope they'd get the more lenient of sentences. I however have a conflicting opinion they will be made an example of. Time will tell, or maybe it wont. They haven't said who they are even if it's fairly obvious seeing as they gave the server.

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Originally Posted by enil

It's like committing a crime and then confessing to it. You still committed the crime, they may get a more lenient punishment - the thing about a rollback is that it's not really a punishment, if all I'm going to lose is the items that I got "illegally". It's like robbing a bank and all I have to do is give back the money. It's not a disincentive to committing the crime. It sets a bad precedent for future possible exploits.

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This is also just a video game.


Yoshi didn't seem too upset when a bug was literally locking people into the dungeon for 10s of hours at a time unable to play the game, he was even laughing about it in a video where someone mentions it to him. I can see it now. "Well, it was pretty funny when players got locked in the dungeon and couldn't play the game, and we said we would fix it and then it happened again, but now that the dungeon is bugging out in a way that was beneficial to one group it is time to start banning people."

Lets get real for a second anyways. The special task force hasn't even been able to take care of Jasdfhwj Aqdsfgg who has been sending me tells for 3 days about how I can get crystals 100% handwork guaranteed. Do you honestly think they will hand out bans because the game broke?

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Originally Posted by MiaBella

Lets get real for a second anyways. The special task force hasn't even been able to take care of Jasdfhwj Aqdsfgg who has been sending me tells for 3 days about how I can get crystals 100% handwork guaranteed. Do you honestly think they will hand out bans because the game broke?

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They actually have a special task force for handing out bans (for gold selling though).
You need to look at Square Enix and the precedent they've already set. They have already banned players for exploiting and are reasonably well known for being heavy-handed for bans.

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Originally Posted by enil

They actually have a special task force for handing out bans (for gold selling though).
You need to look at Square Enix and the precedent they've already set. They have already banned players for exploiting and are reasonably well known for being heavy-handed for bans.

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This is accurate. They will more than likely put down the hammer just to drive home a point.