Materia System

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Problem:
Crafters may be able to double dip profits from this system, enjoying steady sales of their over-produced crap and charging ridiculous prices for materia inlaying and HQ inlaying.
Solution
Emphasize crafters' primary economic benefit to be to increase demand for their undesired final product production, not primarily from profit from materia activity.

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Real Solution: Make gil worth something.

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Originally Posted by nibelunc

Maybe I didnt understand it at all but why should a used weapon or armor turn into materia? i better like the idea of getting inactive materia from shops, monsters or chests and equip them in weapons or armor to get AP that activate the materia at 100%. i like the idea, but i just dont understand. More information would be great.

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The way I think the Lore will work is

1. Items are crafted with crystals which leave a latent energy in the item.
2. As you use the item it absorbs energy from you and the monsters you fight, or from items you craft.
3. When the item is filled with as much energy as it can hold it becomes Catalytic.
4. You can then convert it into Materia with the Materia Catalyst.

The materia catalyst is for attaching materia to gear, not creating the materia from the gear. I expect an NPC who charges a fee (much needed gil sink) to turn your gear into materia.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Real Solution: Make gil worth something.

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Like this?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Curb-Inflation

Not a total solution, but it might help.

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Originally Posted by Crevox

Sounds annoying and unnecessary, I really don't like this. The last part that says "high risk failure" just makes it even worse.

Please don't implement it.

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"high risk failure????.... omg pls no.. i want easy things!!" --;

Please implement it.

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Originally Posted by Drex

"high risk failure????.... omg pls no.. i want easy things!!" --;

Please implement it.

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Its only high risk if your trying to add a second materia slot.

Honestly I couldn't care less about this whole materia system if there isn't a noticeable difference with socketed items in actual combat.

I'm not going to skill up weapons to get better stats from the resulting materia if the only thing it does is adjust some numbers in the status menu.

This whole thing better not be a "barbie doll set" Do-Over! (And by barbie doll sets I'm referring to the 400 faction sets that only allowed you to play dress up with your character)

So in the end this is the best desperate measure they could come with to remove gear from the economy? Gear transforming in stat bonus for other gear? It doesn't make sense to me as part of the game world and in the long run will probably become just another annoying factor to consider when balancing economy and battle.
I'd rather have stuff break from use than this...

If it were me i'd make material drops much more rare and make some of the materials used in making certain gear be recoverable when it breaks. Furthermore i'd make gathering materials from monsters an action you have to select and execute instead of it happening automatically. This way people who only care for fighting won't bother with low level materials and won't gather them from monsters they kill, which also solves inventory cluttering and removes some of the materials sold in the wards. To complete this i'd increase the skill points from a single craft so people don't need to craft so many items of the same tier et voilà, there are less useless items in people's inventories and less gear in circulation.
Regulating wear/break rate and drop rate to adjust economy as needed would be easy then. With the materia system it just becomes harder.

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Originally Posted by Ostia

Lmao! The FFVII Card!! Ah SE! How have you fallen!!!

Eitherway, that materia system sounds a lot like the armor slots/get system we got in wow.

I like it, this game is more wowish each month :O

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I cannot believe you people are comparing this system to WoW. And this is not just from FFVII either, they also did something very similar to this in FFIX and FFXI, except it was for abilities, not for stats, but it is the same idea. If I am not mistaken, FFIX was released before WoW. In FFIX Weapons and Armors would have abbilities and magic spells attached to them. The way you would go about learning those spells would be to fight with the weapon or armor on and earn "attatchment points". Once you unlocked all points you were able to use the spells and/or abilities granted from that weapon/armor anytime you wanted. In this sense, they are trading magic and abilities for an actual "skill orb" that you can attach to other items. That is pretty much the same idea, and while it is not magic or abilities, the name Materia makes sense, that and they said they were not set on that name anyway.

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Originally Posted by Drex

"high risk failure????.... omg pls no.. i want easy things!!" --;

Please implement it.

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At the end of the day it simply sounds like you're gonna have to work more after a certain threshold to attain better results.

In other words to apply two materia into equipment, you not only need to gather two materia but also due to the added value may need to work further to see the results. It's not a linear curve for effort/reward, but until we see exactly what is lost after a failure and what the rate is we won't know just how much the required effort goes up in the process.

I guess there could have been better ways to handle this, but as long as we don't have to deal with the craziness that is upgrading equipment in Korean MMO's (which can go up to +7 quality with .5% success rate...) this should be fine.

I'm calling tl;dr on the entire thread, so it's entirely possible that my thoughts have been brought up at least once. Please forgive me.

First, who is to say that the Materia system is supposed to be a grind-fest? Perhaps it is instead intended to be done in parallel to every-day activities, such as leves, dungeons or NM hunting. Maybe I use the gear I have until it is time to upgrade, then at that point I convert my old gear, go about the process of getting it attached to my new gear, then away I go adventuring again. Then again, maybe it doesn't take that long to get gear to the point of materia conversion, tempting us to go ahead and convert one piece of gear and buying/crafting and identical piece to continue ranking up towards the aforementioned upgrade rank.

Secondly, We already know that gear can be converted into materia which can then be attached to other gear. But what comes of the gear to which the materia was attached? Can it then go through the same process and eventually be converted into materia also? In other words, can gear that has an attached materia also be converted into materia at a later time? And is the effect cumulative?

Mostly because anything that requires any form of work, no matter how light or heavy the load people call a grind.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Mostly because anything that requires any form of work, no matter how light or heavy the load people call a grind.

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you nailed it right on the head

people want easy free stuff
they dont wanna work for it

Grind in an MMO trying to last more than a month?

Surely you jest!

This sounds entertaining, and a step towards me enjoying this game for years to come, as opposed to being bored after a month of entertaining yet fast-food content. Longevity makes me a happy grinder.

In this genre ,if an MMO lasts for a month, it is considered a flop regardless of how much you enjoyed it for that month. Yet any type of grind to add longevity is shunned on at the same time. It's not a concept that works unless you have a huge, massive pool of players that come and go keeping the sub numbers relatively stable.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

you nailed it right on the head

people want easy free stuff
they dont wanna work for it

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If there actually is an "it", instead of a mirage of an "it", then I would work for "it".

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

Its only high risk if your trying to add a second materia slot.

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I know, I was j\k

From my point of view: more risk more fun

If you don't want to grind to make the "uber" materia from lesser gear than you wear, you could just...you know, buy it.

I love the sound of this new system. It will help all discipline types as far as I can see. Especially with how it'll give far more incentive for crafters to keep building armor of ALL ranks.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

you nailed it right on the head

people want easy free stuff
they dont wanna work for it

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It's more like people want to do things that they find interesting. Mindlessly killing the same mobs over and over again so that your sword wubs you wots sounds about as exciting as entering data into a spreadsheet.

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Originally Posted by Quanta

It's more like people want to do things that they find interesting. Mindlessly killing the same mobs over and over again so that your sword wubs you wots sounds about as exciting as entering data into a spreadsheet.

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yet mindlessly doing the same dungeon over and over again is acceptable(according to everyone pointing out the fun in certain other games)

its a circular arguement

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

yet mindlessly doing the same dungeon over and over again is acceptable(according to everyone pointing out the fun in certain other games)

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It's not, actually. It's just as shallow and repetitive. Still, a dungeon run is slightly more interesting than straight killing, if for no other reason than to see in-game NPCs ham it up boasting about their evil plans before they try and destroy you.

On a related note, SE should get Norio Wakamoto to voice every villain. It'd be epic.

And your weapon will grow more attached during those dungeon runs, anyway.

This is grind that happens on top of the other activities you do. Leveling, questing, raiding, pvp'ing- you'll gain materia during all this.

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Originally Posted by Quanta

It's not, actually. It's just as shallow and repetitive. Still, a dungeon run is slightly more interesting than straight killing, if for no other reason than to see in-game NPCs ham it up boasting about their evil plans before they try and destroy you.

On a related note, SE should get Norio Wakamoto to voice every villain. It'd be epic.

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and in the end thats all MMOs are
every MMo is just a grind in one form or another

yet it still gets brung up as something that people really dont like about every MMO
yet they keep playing them

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

and in the end thats all MMOs are
every MMo is just a grind in one form or another

yet it still gets brung up as something that people really dont like about every MMO
yet they keep playing them

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I think MMO players are secretly hoping that the companies making them will get a clue and make an MMO that doesn't utterly depend on drawing out a 30-hour gaming experience over 9000 hours in order to maximize earnings on subscriptions.

Yep -- doing something over and over = grinding in all sense of the word. If you like doing end-game activities, you're grinding end-game; If you like doing crafting or fishing, you're grinding -- if you like collecting artifacts, you're grinding and so on.

It's unavoidable in the MMORPG, let alone RPG genre.

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Originally Posted by Quanta

I think MMO players are secretly hoping that the companies making them will get a clue and make an MMO that doesn't utterly depend on drawing out a 30-hour gaming experience over 9000 hours in order to maximize earnings on subscriptions.

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in other words
people want the impossible

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Seconded. I know these are desperate times, but appealing to the FFVII fans leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

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Indeed. When you use a name coming from FFVII you're stepping in sacred territory. If the system won't be similar i do would rather it having a different name.

I'd love to see the original materia system here tho. IMO it could be expanded to crazy limits in an MMO...imagine every piece of gear having its slots with many combinations and stuff. I would prefer this way much more than they having static secundary stats...

Also, it would make easier to convert every single stuff they decide taking from other game to this one. Lemme pop an example:

If they wanted Byakko Haidate Here...it had DEX+15 Haste+5% and Lightning+50. Assuming elemental conversion (lightning-based attributes into lightning slots, wind-based attributes into wind slots) it would just become an gear with 2 Lightning and 1 Wind slots. As Endgame stuff, add another wildcard slot (that can receive any element), link 1 lightning and 1 wind to the wildcard and that's it! Sometimes it could even end with a bouild superior to the original haidate since it would be up to the player decide what would be taking that slot...they could add, as example, instead of the 50 lightning some critical hit rate bonus, instead of haste some evasion, instead of DEX some accuracy and so on...the possibilities would be unlimited!

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

in other words
people want the impossible

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Pretty much, I guess.

While you live life... you are grinding... (work/school/eating/walking/driving, etc)

Everything you do is a grind. Its how the user perceives this grind.

If you enjoy what you do, the grind doesn't bother you.

Anyways, I am for the "Materia" System, I think it will add another depth to weapons and armors.
They need to fix the stat issues before they bring this system into the game, or else people will call the upgrades a complete waste etc...

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Originally Posted by tachikoma

1. If you want the best materia you will (HIGHLY LIKELY) have to use the best gear to get it-> you want the HQ3 materia? gotta materialize your +3 crab bow to get it!

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Nope. They're smarter than that. Crab bow +3s are the reason there are too many crab bows. You can't give people incentive to destroy them, or you make the problem worse. Quality of materia should dominantly depend on the item's rank, with a minor increase in chance for the rarer materia with +1 and +2. Little to no point in burning a +3.

Thus, you pay for a weapon's Quality because you plan to make use of its damage. Not because it has a better potential to turn into epic materia. Burning a +3 tool weapon or armor for a chance at materia SHOULD be a foolish move.

For the rest you just assume that these are problems and that this system is final. These are problems which only need attention before the system is released. Whether they already have those problems covered and didn't mention, I don't care. I also don't care how they do it, or if they even use the solutions mentioned, so long as they pay attention to the problems.

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Originally Posted by AuctionGirl

While you live life... you are grinding... (work/school/eating/walking/driving, etc)

Everything you do is a grind. Its how the user perceives this grind.

If you enjoy what you do, the grind doesn't bother you.

Anyways, I am for the "Materia" System, I think it will add another depth to weapons and armors.
They need to fix the stat issues before they bring this system into the game, or else people will call the upgrades a complete waste etc...

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Right. You can't make the grind something idiotic that asperger's kids excel at that everyone else finds boring, which is skilling up mindlessly on cave rats to achieve their goal of looking better than everyone else. You have to make the activity engaging if you want to attract quality players to the game. Otherwise you just attract nameless drones to do nameless drone tasks, and they like it because it's the only thing they're good at...by default because no one better than them can tolerate the ****ty activity.

I don't want a materia system where drone players and low-skill players are given the keys to the car and house because they have an anal insistance to do whatever it takes to mindlessly plow all day through poor game design. I want the house to be owned by people who deserve it.

Some people in the crowd drool at the thought of mind-numbingly bad grind, because they know everyone else will quit it, leaving them to dominate it. These are the people who are quick to argue, "Well if you don't want to farm materia, buy it." Of course they say that. They want you OUT of their potential market, even if that means making the market garbage.

Unfortunately the product is **** because those players champion mediocrity as a weedout of their competition. It's quality sabotage for their own benefit.

If they are going to call it the Materia system, it needs to WORK like the Materia system:

-the more you use a Materia it lvls up
-Materia is equippable and unequippable
-Materia doesn't break when you remove it
-Materia imparts skills not just lame ass stats

Come on SE, get real. This is a halfassed attempt. We need more than just retarded atk, def, etc. Stats on our weapons. What's so great about working your ass off just to get +5 STR on a sword?!

This is an insult. If the system isn't good no one will use it and a lot of players expecting above average quality content are going to hate you a lot.

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Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

If they are going to call it the Materia system, it needs to WORK like the Materia system:

-the more you use a Materia it lvls up
-Materia is equippable and unequippable
-Materia doesn't break when you remove it
-Materia imparts skills not just lame ass stats

Come on SE, get real. This is a halfassed attempt. We need more than just retarded atk, def, etc. Stats on our weapons. What's so great about working your ass off just to get +5 STR on a sword?!

This is an insult. If the system isn't good no one will use it and a lot of players expecting above average quality content are going to hate you a lot.

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I wouldn't put it passed me if this was only the start of a System that will expand into something much more.

We could only hope so. I doubt it will have time to expand if the dungeon sucks.

Because SE will loose their remaining playerbase to WoW or the much anticipated and content rich Guild Wars 2.

Without a playerbase they won't get a chance to even have a reason to continue anything ff14 related.

This next patch is a deal maker or breaker.

I'm wishing with all my might that they pull a giraffe out the hat instead of a bunny. Why? Because ppl are tired of the same **** again and again. Fool me once...

Yeah, they'll put all focus back onto XI -- which would make the select "if you like XI so much why don't you go play it and let XIV become it's old thing without you guys holding it back?" people happy that XIV would be unsupported in favor of their established MMO.

Still, I wouldn't expect crazy things out of the system. It's meant to deal with the flashpan economy mechanics that generate mountains of crap equipment and weapons in order to make anything someone's willing to pay for. It's not meant to dramatically complicate the battle system.

They'll probably make you choose between things like Str+4, Att+3, or double attack+1%. That's a tough call depending on Matsui's tightened battle stats.

Materia's not going to make or break your character into either a gimp or an epic hero known throughout the land. Not meant to be that.

Hell it didn't in VII (broken nature of the game aside, and I mean literally broken, *cough magic resistance*) and you could actually complete the game without using non-story driven materia (Long range/Chocobo lure etc.) They probably wanted to avoid calling it something too generic like Enchantment.

keep the materia name. its good. some people just wont let go of somethings.
its like summonings, they look different in like every game but its still the same thing, get over it

You know accepting less is how you continue the tradition of getting less. Especially in a time where SE listens to our opinions.

Don't say it isn't "meant" to be that. As if you could possibly know. There is very little more than speculation at this point.

My point was in focus if what info IS known at this time.

If every player adapted YOUR "just accept it as it is" mentality then I doubt half the fixes and implementations we have to date would have come about.

But they did come, and you know why? Because ppl that cared argued and voted passionately.

We are the ones effecting change.

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Originally Posted by Mack

Yea safe to say you're the only one who is going to have any trouble with this lol.

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I may have been the only person who has argued that the word 'materia', in and of itself, does not roll nicely off the tongue and will be confusing when used in a crafting scheme.

However, I am not the only person in this thread who feels the term is too branded and specific to FFVII. And that is my main opposition to the term.

I'm fine with series tradition terms, like chocobo, moogle, job names, Cid, etc. Because they're tradition. They recur in every Final Fantasy.

However, 'Materia' was a system exclusively used in FFVII. And it wasn't even socketing for item enhancement, like we're talking about implementing in FFXIV, it was socketing for abilities and summons. In reality, the Materia system is more like FFVIII's Junctioning system.

I think people may be annoyed when they hear that FFXIV is implementing a 'Materia' system, then find out they can't summon KotR when they socket their sword with a crystal.

I think a system of crystal socketing is fantastic. It lets you customize your gear. And it definitely fits into the Final Fantasy universe. But using the name 'Materia' does not properly define the system, and it does not fit into FFXIV's crystal naming scheme.

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

I may have been the only person who has argued that the word 'materia', in and of itself, does not roll nicely off the tongue and will be confusing when used in a crafting scheme.

However, I am not the only person in this thread who feels the term is too branded and specific to FFVII. And that is my main opposition to the term.

I'm fine with series tradition terms, like chocobo, moogle, job names, Cid, etc. Because they're tradition. They recur in every Final Fantasy.

However, 'Materia' was a system exclusively used in FFVII. And it wasn't even socketing for item enhancement, like we're talking about implementing in FFXIV, it was socketing for abilities and summons. In reality, the Materia system is more like FFVIII's Junctioning system.

I think people may be annoyed when they hear that FFXIV is implementing a 'Materia' system, then find out they can't summon KotR when they socket their sword with a crystal.

I think a system of crystal socketing is fantastic. It lets you customize your gear. And it definitely fits into the Final Fantasy universe. But using the name 'Materia' does not properly define the system, and it does not fit into FFXIV's crystal naming scheme.

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Even if the Materia System is just based on stats right now, I can see some Materia that can be quested to improve Job Abilities or upgrade class abilities. FFVII was Yoshi's favorite FF game as i recall, I don't believe he would continue to stride too far away from the Materia System that existed in that game.