Please get rid of surplus SP

Nice! Every bit of news we hear seems to be great news lately!

Excellent. *rubs hands together*

What does he mean "decide on the play style", is this a balance into hardcore vs casual, or something else like pigeon holing(i'm not that opposed actually at this point). Not too worried about it, just curious.

Was kinda wondering why this wasn't removed sooner, but I suppose it makes sense since that's when the bulk of the battle changes will be coming in and the ranking or leveling system will take a different route.

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Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

What does he mean "decide on the play style", is this a balance into hardcore vs casual, or something else like pigeon holing(i'm not that opposed actually at this point). Not too worried about it, just curious.

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Probably just means that Square Enix will no longer hint, suggest, or straight tell you you've played enough X for now.

im all for this, im a casual player (have two jobs so not a lot of time) and I never cared for system glad see they will remove it in time

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Probably just means that Square Enix will no longer hint, suggest, or straight tell you you've played enough X for now.

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Especially when it doesn't stop the hardcore from being hardcore. It would have been just grinded through anyway.

I have just one question. I have been led to believe that the Surplus system would give us a pool of points similar to what Merits are used for in XI. If we simply do away with Surplus, we lose what we earned in that unseen pool of points. If we're eliminating Surplus, I would hope that the SP that was lost to Surplus when we were Fatigued, would be reinstated back to our usual SP tally.

Example: You're rank 30. You spent 10 ranks in Surplus, so you earned X amount of Surplus points. Surplus system goes away, X points of SP is restored to your rank progression.

That's what I expect, because I don't want my "unseen" earnings dashed to oblivion.

So, will we get our surplus points back in the form of regular SP?

My guess is no. Just because we leveled while a system was in place doesn't mean we get compensated when it goes away.

This is just SE saying look, if all you want to do is be a Lancer...then be a Lancer.

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

Hello fellow adventurers! We have some comments for you regarding surplus from FFXIV Producer/Director Yoshida himself!

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I really want to run up to yoshida and give him a jumping highfive, thank you SE.

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

I have just one question. I have been led to believe that the Surplus system would give us a pool of points similar to what Merits are used for in XI.

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They just said that they didn't know what they were gonna do with all the surplus points. I have a feeling that they aren't even keeping track, and just said that as some kind of excuse, since that would be a terrible way to earn merit points.

So now we can hit rank 50 in about 1week -.- or are they also going to fix the amount of SP you gain because getting 1-20 in 1day just by doing leves is not fun.

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Originally Posted by Naylia

My guess is no. Just because we leveled while a system was in place doesn't mean we get compensated when it goes away.

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Exatcly. In every MMORPG leveling becomes easier with time, and i don't remember any case in which compensation has been offered to the ones that leveled up first. They get other perks.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

So now we can hit rank 50 in about 1week -.- or are they also going to fix the amount of SP you gain because getting 1-20 in 1day just by doing leves is not fun.

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They still won't be hitting 50 in a week. Surplus has no impact on people who grind it out and put in the tiime. It doesn't really slow you down.

I think the reason they are tackling this, is that with the current SP gain rate matched to the current SP Surplus entry point, a casual player who has a Saturday free to play suddenly finds him/herself in Surplus by mid-afternoon and these people are frustrated that they finally got to play and suddenly they are being penalized.

It's also that systems that are phrased as a penalty are not really enjoyed in games. Technically surplus is really no different from GA. If I have GA and I keep grinding leves, then suddenly I run out and get less SP. But the GA system is a "positive" reinforcement on taking a break and I get a "bonus" when I start playing againg, while Surplus is a "negative" reinforcement against playing - and all the time I spend playing the on my main character is being "penalized". Psychologically I think this impacts some players.

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

Hello fellow adventurers! We have some comments for you regarding surplus from FFXIV Producer/Director Yoshida himself!

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Hello everyone! This is Producer/Director Yoshida!
Thanks so much for the discussions on surplus points. There have been a lot of threads in other regions on the same topic and many of the comments have been the same. Along with the implementation of new dungeon and raid environments, we’re looking towards the direction of basically eliminating this system.

I feel that it’s ideal that players decide on the play style.

Thank You Yoshi-P!!! Thank You!!!
I don't need momma SE to tell me how long I can have fun with something when I get an open day.

I could of gotten 20 levels past the level I am now I swear without surplus, and I'm not a "hardcore gamer" when it comes to time I can play, I put in a good winter break into FFXIV and went from 21-39, not playing everyday, but when I think about all the sp I lost due to surplus it sickens me :/ and I can honestly say that surplus hurts those of who have work or school, because you can't catch up ever with your friends due to surplus unless they just quit playing for a while.

Heya!

Not having a problem here neither. If I hit surplus with a class, I just enroll that class to help or to look good (Miqo'te + Axe = bi-winning), but mainly I just switch class so I can experience the playin' with other classes. (and I've discovered that I don't like magics, at all. Still asking myself why I've bought Magicka though =D)

Besides that, is not that Surplus gives you that much of an EXP reduction. You can still rank up with surplus with no problem at all.
I'd suggest that if you hate Surplus, just switch to another class and have fun in a different way! You'll find it even more funnier sometimes. (switching from Marauder to Archer felt so damn good!)

See ya!

92 hours at 20k an hour to r50....go, go go!

I think surplus is a good idea done bad.
Why not do like Dissidia let the player choose what kind of gamer he is lets say this for example.]

Casual> The player get a bonus on SP/EXP for some hours thats intended to casual player after that SP get a big restriction that way it can fool the system.

Hardcore> The Player dont get restricted on the amount of SP/EXP he gets at all

I believe that way Casual player can keep up and Hardcore player dont get hold back, dunno if you think its a good idea hit up like if i get a lot i may put a petition for it

I have never hit surplus but glad to see this going away. I understood the concept, but still glad to see it go. Perhaps I will find some use for the surplus removal after more content is added and the game is just more awesomerest.

I just hit surplus for the first time yesterday, actually and.. well, it's not bothering me.

To be perfectly frank it seems a shame to remove it, though.. inevitable, but a shame. So much for being balanced with the hardcore players, even if it would've taken tweaking to really achieve that.

Oh well..

Crafting without the fear of surplus..... will be nice.

This system only punishes the hardcore fanbase. Right now square needs all the hardcore players they can get. Get rid of it and up the rank to 60.

Hey, I have a suggestion:

Rather than eliminating Surplus SP entirely, why not simply invert the system so that it works like Rested EXP in WoW?

See, the Surplus SP system punishes people for playing too long, which is why people don't like it. But Rested EXP in WoW is the reverse of that, and instead rewards players for taking breaks.

In its current form, Surplus SP in FFXIV starts with the normal amount of EXP gained and slowly drains it down to zero over time. But the Rested EXP in WoW builds up from the normal amount of EXP, allowing you to gain 200% as much EXP as normal when your character is "Rested." And when your Rested status wears off, the amount of EXP you gain returns to normal.

So Rested EXP in WoW feels like an actual bonus and a reward, whereas Surplus SP in FFXIV feels like an undeserved and unjust punishment. Because of this, WoW's Rested EXP is viewed as a positive thing, whereas FFXIV's Surplus SP is viewed as a negative thing.

Successful game systems are ones that encourage positive emotions, not negative ones (a point which I've tried to emphasis in this post by using colored text).

If Surplus SP in FFXIV were to build up player's EXP instead of dragging it down, I believe people would no longer hate the system, and in fact would actually start enjoying it.

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Originally Posted by Rhianu

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That um... that isn't a bad idea, actually. I'd go for that, maybe. I think I'd still prefer the present system with some re-balancing, but that wouldn't be bad.

Thank you so much Y-P <3

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Originally Posted by Rhianu

Hey, I have a suggestion:

Rather than eliminating Surplus SP entirely, why not simply invert the system so that it works like Rested EXP in WoW?

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Indeed. In fact it was brought up dozens of times earlier in the thread. This is the best way to do it, IMO.

Good by horrible surplus system, I will not miss you.

Yes surplus please be gone! While you're at that Yoshi P. remove the physical level system as well I'm tired of waiting hours to reset my attributes.

I'm not an hardcore player, far from that, but i hit surplus very often just because when i play i like to do leves, dunes, behests, dunes again... and i do them with my lancer and after a few ranks there's the yellow thing. I now the loss is not that bad in the first stage of fatigue but it feels like a waste. So if i don't feel like it to play other classes cause my main point is to get R50 i stop playing till fatigue resets.

So SE if you are going to remove it TYVM :)

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Originally Posted by Honz

Yes surplus please be gone! While you're at that Yoshi P. remove the physical level system as well I'm tired of waiting hours to reset my attributes.

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They already said they were going to address this, it was one of the questions on the 2nd survey and the results are in one of the Letters from the Producer. There were two options, I forget exactly what they were.

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

Hello fellow adventurers! We have some comments for you regarding surplus from FFXIV Producer/Director Yoshida himself!

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Thanks.

I personally do not care about having surplus or having it not. But the important thing for me is that this statement turned my scepticism about your strategy into trust.

I'm slightly surprised people want to grind so much. Aren't there lots of korean games you can happily grind in all day? Even FFXI qualifies if you want it so much: the level cap has been raised exactly for that purpose.

Everyone can grind. It's basically a synonym to "mindless". It creates so much frustration there are laws to limit it in work places, so why would anyone be against a system that does the same? I suppose grinding ranks all day is exciting as it allows your character to become stronger faster, which in turn makes you feel better than others (and better about yourself as consequence), but is it really worth it? Since this is a game and not an assembly line i'd rather see advantages being gained through skill, not grind.

Let fighting stronger monsters be even more rewarding. Make behest contain stronger "optional" monsters for ambitious people to tackle, let crafting be a simple puzzle minigame, with crafts too high in level for you being increasingly difficult levels of it (so if you try a rank 30 craft at rank 20 the puzzle will be exceedingly difficult, but not unsolvable), etc...
There are many quality ways to reward greed, ambition and desire. Games are a form of luxury, so it's obvious such dark desires should be rewarded in them and not discouraged. To do so is inherent to gaming. Grind is however the poorest, laziest and most obsolete way to do so.

In FFXI grind was a staple thing, yet people who don't play it often cite grind as the reason. It can possibly mean the particular fanbase of FFXI was of the sort that actually enjoyed the grind... and i suspect that's the biggest chunk of the fanbase that stuck with FFXIV after it's initial failure (grind was basically the only thing you could do.) I am therefore not sure that removing the system completely is a good idea for the game itself. I understand fatigue may be annoying on occasion, but a tweak still looks more desirable considering what i said above.

Don't take me wrong, i don't hate grinders. In FFXI i dreaded endgame and found low level content to be the most entertaining, so i never had any desire to have many high level classes or even crafts. Even when moved to grind i would try to get parties that actually talked while fighting and later organized static parties with my friends to dilute the mindlessness of it as much as possible.

What i'm worried about is an overall useful and innovative system being removed because of a substantially limited fanbase demanding it, and future new players being forced to grind by peer pressure, thus scaring away certain types of players in the same way FFXI did. (I thought the point of this game was to cater to a wider fanbase than FFXI)

If that's the only way to get this game going though, then so be it. I'll try to balance grind like i did in FFXI and if i can't do it i'll just quit.

i would completely love to see the day i do not go into fatigue less than 3 hours after i come off fatigue on the main class i am working on. it's bad when i have a few friends that only play an hour or 2 each evening and still have 3-4 classes in fatigue each week.

I am sick of this fatigue system, it really is just plain stupid and does NOTHING for the enjoyment of the game, absolutely nothing. After the last patch i was excited to try out Behest with 8 people and see the results of the new bonuses for a "Full Party". As soon as Behest was done, my class went in to fatigue. Seriously, wtf? That quickly killed off any enjoyment I was feeling. I went back to town, did a couple quests and logged out. Too many classes in fatigue. Why should I waste more time getting the SP I shouldn't be losing in the first place?

And please, please, please Yoshi-san, remove that point allocation restriction! I can't even change from a DoW to a DoM without having my DoM classes get their spells resisted CONSTANTLY because I couldn't allocate enough points in the overly restrictive time frame. So now I am unable to play either DoW or DoM classes because I can't switch points around again for a long time. That is just plain dumb, sorry but it is.

Please remove these two aggravating features on the next patch! I don't see why not since these are two major causes of player disappointment and these are major changes, not just some cute way of showing a mobs rank with a little red or green dot.

It never gone from me longer than few hours

what's the point for this system?

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Originally Posted by Kirith

What i'm worried about is an overall useful and innovative system being removed because of a substantially limited fanbase demanding it

What the hell was useful or innovative about a system that punished people for playing a game?

, and future new players being forced to grind by peer pressure, thus scaring away certain types of players in the same way FFXI did. (I thought the point of this game was to cater to a wider fanbase than FFXI)

I leveled at my own pace in FFXI. If you ever felt pressured to grind because of peer pressure than maybe you shouldn't be playing MMO's. If anything, the fatigue system would be hurtful to new players, especially when the PS3 version comes out. Those who want to level up quickly and catch up to their friends would be stuck dealing with the fatigue system. I find that to be more of a deterrent from leveling than some fake peer pressure.

If that's the only way to get this game going though, then so be it. I'll try to balance grind like i did in FFXI and if i can't do it i'll just quit.

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Like it or not dude, the core of any MMO is grinding. So maybe you should just quit playing MMO's altogether.

I say shorten the fatigue reset time to 3 days.. 7 days is just too long..

Noooooooo, just remove it for the twelve sake!

Remove it, seriously.