SE Please implement a Chonoscroll/PLEX system in FFXIV: ARR

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Originally Posted by Aenarion

Wow, can't believe you guys are still at this, lol



Not sure if this point's been made in the thread since I last looked, but one key area to look at is whether the game mechanic and design can cope with players sudden gaining access to large sums of in-game currency without negative effects. I don't know about Tera, as I've never played the game, but for Eve that is generally the case, as all the money and assets in the world doesn't do anyone any good if they can't fully utilize it, whether through lack of in-game skill or other reasons, and the pvp-centric style of the game all but guarantees that idiots are soon parted with their money and assets, often accompanied by hilarious killmails.

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In Tera the problem is solved simply by limiting the number of chronoscrolls one can get to two a week. So you can get a gold boost, and you can buy enough to sustain the scroll market, but you can't suddenly buy the world.

A limiter on exploiting. Far better than the free reign of plex, but I still have my reservations.

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Originally Posted by Quesse

You sound like someone selling asbestos for the first time. Hey I got this great new material that insulates AND protects from fire! Let's put it in all the houses!

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Hey, great example! You DO know though that the dust from cutting asbestos alone was the actual exposition that caused lung cancer, do you? Living in a house insulated with asbestos is actually innocuous.

Anyway, you brought this up, let's continue...

Construction workers in that time were exposed to a lot of environmental hazards. It took scientists ages to discover the dust of asbestos as cause for cancer because the actual exposition to it was so litte. They expected another source to be the cause for the illness because the exposition to other hazardous material happened way more often.

However, this doesn't apply in this case. The universe that is EvE Online is a closed system, monitored and documented from all sides and in every angle available. Having a closed system and knowing all factors of the equation DOES make things a bit easier to diagnose.

Sorry for language, not a native speaker.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

A limiter on exploiting. Far better than the free reign of plex, but I still have my reservations.

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Oh, plex are plenty limited. You can be blown up in space with them. Not pretty when it happens :D

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Oh, plex are plenty limited. You can be blown up in space with them. Not pretty when it happens :D

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...You're gonna have to run this past me again. Are you talking figuratively? As a game function?

When smb destroys your vessel, it's lost forever. If you happen to transport some PLEX at that time, they can get blown up aswell.
Not a system meant for avatar-based mmo's though...

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

...You're gonna have to run this past me again. Are you talking figuratively? As a game function?

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Not figuratively at all. Read and laugh.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...s-of-Game-Time

So if such a Crysta market existed in X|V, what sort of limiter would you propose? Seeing that the only two known examples had limiters on them, I am assuming "none" is off the table.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

...You're gonna have to run this past me again. Are you talking figuratively? As a game function?

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What Abriael just said, and it happens all the time too.

Like I said, in Eve, idiots are soon parted with their money :p

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

So if such a Crysta market existed in X|V, what sort of limiter would you propose? Seeing that the only two known examples had limiters on them, I am assuming "none" is off the table.

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EvE doesn't limit the amount of PLEX. A player can own or purchase an infinite amount at any given time. They just implemented ways for other players to take your wealth.

I'm not sure if "none" is a good idea though. Limiting the avaiable supply per player per month/week sure is a good idea to see how this works out in conjunction with XIV imo.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

So if such a Crysta market existed in X|V, what sort of limiter would you propose? Seeing that the only two known examples had limiters on them, I am assuming "none" is off the table.

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What's used in TERA works well for my taste. Put a limitation of two months worth of gametime a week, and that's plenty.

Cui bono

I think instead of actually legitimizing this whole thing, we should look at the people defending it.

Oh look, Abriael has been playing since launch and doesn't have a crafting or gathering job to 50. By reading his lodestone blog, I see that he might have an issue with gil. Also by looking at his start date and his current job levels, I now see where hes coming from when he says

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Originally Posted by Abriael

If anything, it levels the playing field further by giving those that don't have as much time to spend into the game a way not to be left behind the curve.

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• axemtitanium - No crafting what-so-ever and no gathering job either.
• Ahmera Mae - Little to no crafting and no Gathering.

Makes me wonder, might you three have some extra pocket change you might want to convert to gil? Hmmm...

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Originally Posted by Hart

Ahmera Mae - Little to no crafting and no Gathering.

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Dude, i started playing exactly one month prior to the last save of XIV. Check dates on pads.
http://xivpads.com/?14935390

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Originally Posted by Hart

Cui bono

I think instead of actually legitimizing this whole thing, we should look at the people defending it.

Oh look, Abriael has been playing since launch and doesn't have a crafting or gathering job to 50. By reading his lodestone blog, I see that he might have an issue with gil. Also by looking at his start date and his current job levels, I now see where hes coming from when he says

• axemtitanium - No crafting what-so-ever and no gathering job either.
• Ahmera Mae - Little to no crafting and no Gathering.

Makes me wonder, might you three have some extra pocket change you might want to convert to gil? Hmmm...

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Nothing is more pathetic than ad hominem attacks when you lack the faculties to intelligently debate the issue :rolleyes:

How's this one, I've been playing since launch (albeit with a 5 months long break awhile back), I've maxed out every DoH/L a LONG time ago, and while I'm hardly amongst the richest players, I do have a bit of pocket change.

Go ahead, stereotype me :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Hart

Cui bono

I think instead of actually legitimizing this whole thing, we should look at the people defending it.

Oh look, Abriael has been playing since launch and doesn't have a crafting or gathering job to 50. By reading his lodestone blog, I see that he might have an issue with gil. Also by looking at his start date and his current job levels, I now see where hes coming from when he says

• axemtitanium - No crafting what-so-ever and no gathering job either.
• Ahmera Mae - Little to no crafting and no Gathering.

Makes me wonder, might you three have some extra pocket change you might want to convert to gil? Hmmm...

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So, since you have absolutely no solid argument, now you're resorting to personal attacks and assumptions (not that you didn't before, anyway)?

Unfortunately, they don't give you any ammo. I simply had to leave the game for an extended period of time. Sorry to burst a bubble.

Besides, no one should feel forced to gather or craft in order to prosper in a MMORPG. It ain't a job.
Try harder :D

Hardly a personal attack, just pointing out what is readily available information. I don't need ammo anymore, you just said exactly what I wanted to hear.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Besides, no one should feel forced to gather or craft in order to prosper in a MMORPG. It ain't a job.

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You can't take the good without the bad. I'm sorry you feel forced to make money, don't worry, you're not alone, everyone has to work for what they have. I don't care if you flipped burgers for an extra hour this week. Your money outside of XIV doesn't equate to money in game. Maybe if you focused on one game, you might not feel the need to buy gil. Or in an even better scenario (imo) you could go play EVE or Tera full time and abandon XIV all together.

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Originally Posted by Hart

Hardly a personal attack, just pointing out what is readily available information. I don't need ammo anymore, you just said exactly what I wanted to hear.



You can't take the good without the bad. I'm sorry you feel forced to make money, don't worry, you're not alone, everyone has to work for what they have. I don't care if you flipped burgers for an extra hour this week. Your money outside of XIV doesn't equate to money in game. Maybe if you focused on one game, you might not feel the need to buy gil. Or in an even better scenario (imo) you could go play EVE or Tera full time and abandon XIV all together.

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You're just getting more pathetic now. His statement is indeed correct, if the only method of financial advancement in an MMO is through crafting or gathering, as your original post was implying, then the game balance is out of whack.

That in no way means they're looking to "buy gil" as you say here, that's just your strawman.

Still waiting for you to give your divine revelation on why I'm not piling on the PLEX system though, go ahead, we can barely contain our excitement at what you're going to say.

I have played since launch have many crafts to 50 a gathering to 50 and all battle classes to 50 and I fully support this system. Don't pick and choose facts to make an argument it does nobody any good

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Originally Posted by Hart

Hardly a personal attack, just pointing out what is readily available information. I don't need ammo anymore, you just said exactly what I wanted to hear.

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It's called libel. And it doesn't work in your favor.

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You can't take the good without the bad. I'm sorry you feel forced to make money, don't worry, you're not alone, everyone has to work for what they have. I don't care if you flipped burgers for an extra hour this week. Your money outside of XIV doesn't equate to money in game. Maybe if you focused on one game, you might not feel the need to buy gil. Or in an even better scenario (imo) you could go play EVE or Tera full time and abandon XIV all together.

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Do go on with your libelous assumptions, as they do nothing else than proving me right. You have absolutely no argument.

I make plenty gil in game to sustain the only two jobs I care about. For all your alleged experience, if you think crafting or gathering are the only two ways to have a good flow of gil, you know nothing about this game.

Those that "focus on one game", normally don't have the slightest idea on how to improve that game and how to help it succeed, because they know nothing of the MMORPG market (as you demonstrated plenty) as a whole.

Your affliction is called "tunnel vision". Luckily enough, I don't suffer from it.

Even if he had an argument, it wouldn't matter:

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Originally Posted by Abriael

That's not for you to decide. It's SE's position to decide.

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This isn't a thread for discussion. Replies are only here to bump the thread.

I'm against this idea. I said why and I gave my reasons. Guess that's it.

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Originally Posted by A_Hortensia

1) Money, items, or any other entity which exists outside the game should not influence, effect, or hold value to any aspect, item, or currency that exists within the game.

2) FFXIV should not be free to play for anyone. Even if the money is coming from somewhere/someone else.

By playing and subscribing to the game service, you should be proud with your decision to enjoy this high caliber product, while supporting the hard-working high caliber staff and company. Your own money should speak for you, not somebody else's. Be part of the community and let everyone be equals as customers.

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Blizzard tried to stop RMT with the real money auction house. It didn't work. RMT still thrive by trading under the table so Blizzard doesn't collect transaction fees.

I really don't like the idea of trading game time for items.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Blizzard tried to stop RMT with the real money auction house. It didn't work. RMT still thrive by trading under the table so Blizzard doesn't collect transaction fees.

I really don't like the idea of trading game time for items.

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It's a completely different feature. It really has nothing to do with it.

Apples aren't oranges, yanno.

I started writing a really long reply about how this idea should not be implemented. Then I decided to save myself some time. Everyone is just trying to 1up each other anyway at this point.

The Taru, Duuude, is correct. A system like this seems like it might work on paper, but it's more like an excuse to reduce the responsibility of actually fixing an issue.

Reasons people RMT:
Time investment too large:
Derives from requirement of monetary gains through large amount of dailies, crafting, etc.

Price of entry too high:
If the game does not pace income appropriately the need for quick gain rises. If I'm leveling up and hit the highest level, but everything costs x57 what I have, well then sir (or mam), we have a problem.

Consistency of game rewards lacks:
If you constantly complete content and are not moderately rewarded. How about those endless runs for Darklight gear? I'm not saying they should be easy to get, but COME ON. Also, remember Diablo 3 at launch? I forgot that game was supposed to be about loot until they reminded me on a forum.

Furthermore, if I'm constantly receiving really good gear from completing crafting milestones, quests, or instances, why would I need to purchase in-game currency?

Staying competitive:
There are no systems in place to catch newcomers or casuals up to current content. Why do tier 1 content when the tier 3 patch is out? "Wait, I haven't done tier 1 or 2, so how can I do tier 3? .... Guys?..."

Your game isn't fun:
Read the title. People want to beat it fast and experience what it has to offer. They also want to get out quickly.

In conclusion, fix your game. Don't implement a lame feature for extra income because no one wants to actually pay a subscription. This is a pointless system for users - why do we need it when everything we want is obtainable through moderate play? I actually think this game may already be trying to address this issue with its crafting, gathering, and battle systems. Each can generate items that are good for selling or using. Don't have time to run raids? Go weave yourself a new shirt, brotatoe.

Be careful though and don't make the game one linear tier of content and rewards. World of Warcraft has done a superb job implementing rewards for all play styles. You want the best loot? Well go wipe on bosses and rerun content over and over until your guild breaks up for that highest bracket gear. Want a similar piece of gear, but with less stats? Well go run into a wall while your party kills the boss for you. Either way the different play styles are rewarded.

Using the "But Mom, it worked for EVE and her friend TERA down the street!" mentality - Why not do something a bit more interesting, more Final Fantasy? Why not implement a system like the digital store in Guild Wars 2 (minus the boosting items)? Maybe do it via the Gold Saucer. Spend Gil or real money (which has a controlled and moderated conversion rate) on tokens to play mini-games for character cosmetics or a new rug for your house. Now the developers have more money and I have a badass Mithra rug.

If you're more worried about revenue stream for the developer, well then, the above would suit them better. Knock out a mount skin asset in the afternoon and sell it for $25 starting Friday. Little work for an unforeseeable income over the game's lifetime. Not only that, but the cosmetic addition to the game's store introduces zero balance issues.

Unless, of course, it's unfair to be a badass.

I would be in favor of the Flex Pass it it acted as a "Buddy Pass" with a Registration & Delivery System outside of the game world.

If it were an in-game trade-able (for gil) item, I do not see how it would limit RMT. In fact I believe it would encourage more RMT. Here is my reasoning:

I would basically have 3 options to play the game:

1) Pay my monthly fee of $10 or $15 USD.

2) Farm enough gil in-game to buy a Flex Pass: Price unknown but let's say 150,000 gil (could be 1-2 mil though)

3) Pay an RMT $10.00 USD for 1 mil gil, buy Flex Pass for 150,000 and still have 850,000 gil left over.
3a) or Pay RMT $5.00 USD for 500,000 gil and still have 350,000 gil left over.

Now if the Flex Passes start selling for 1-2 mil gil, yes the RMT's would have to work harder for less profit but they would adjust and everyone going for option 2 (farming gil) would suffer from inflation.

Bottom line for me though is this: I just don't like the idea of Purchasing In-Game money with IRL Money (which is what "sellers" of the Flex Pass would be doing) and is why I stay away from supposed "Free-to-Play" games and "Cash Shop" games and I would stay away from FFXIV if it takes that route also.

I'm sorry if "I don't like it" is not a good enough reason for anyone else but it's good enough for me. :)

God please no cash shops...

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Originally Posted by Heavens

In conclusion, fix your game.

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There are plenty games that are "fixed", but are still ridden with RMT. The game being fixed has nothing to do with it.

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This is a pointless system for users - why do we need it when everything we want is obtainable through moderate play?

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Yep, completely pointless to allow people with more revenue to pay the monthly for people with less.

Oh wait...

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Using the "But Mom, it worked for EVE and her friend TERA down the street!" mentality - Why not do something a bit more interesting, more Final Fantasy? Why not implement a system like the digital store in Guild Wars 2 (minus the boosting items)? Maybe do it via the Gold Saucer. Spend Gil or real money (which has a controlled and moderated conversion rate) on tokens to play mini-games for character cosmetics or a new rug for your house. Now the developers have more money and I have a badass Mithra rug.

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Completely different system with completely different objectives. A cosmetic store simply serves to generate additional revenue (and it's an extremely annoying way to do so, as the developer needs to dedicate plenty development and design resources to keep the store full with items, instead of creating the same cosmetic items, but allowing everyone already paying a monthly fee to enjoy them). Chronoscrolls/PLEX combats RMT and helps retaining more accounts without the slightest expense from the developer.

Retaining accounts isn't just a matter of additional revenue, but also a matter of keeping population stable and/or growing.

People in the game aren't just paying customers, they're also effectively a form of content for the other players to play with. A cosmetic store does nothing in this direction (other that annoying a lot of people).

Unfortunately the P2P market is going in that direction, but I won't sure suggest it, when there are better solutions that have additional perks on top of additional revenue.

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Originally Posted by Davorok

1) Pay my monthly fee of $10 or $15 USD.

2) Farm enough gil in-game to buy a Flex Pass: Price unknown but let's say 150,000 gil (could be 1-2 mil though)

3) Pay an RMT $10.00 USD for 1 mil gil, buy Flex Pass for 150,000 and still have 850,000 gil left over.
3a) or Pay RMT $5.00 USD for 500,000 gil and still have 350,000 gil left over.

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You assume that RMT gil would automatically cost a lot less, which is not realistic, because the price of this kind of things adjusts between demand and offer.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

There are plenty games that are "fixed", but are still ridden with RMT. The game being fixed has nothing to do with it.

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It's adorable how close to the chest you're taking all of these comments.

Features like these were invented to keep interest in a game, because they introduce new ways of play. If you actually solve the problem and introduce true forms of new play, these systems become irrelevant. You are arguing for something that should be irrelevant to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Yep, completely pointless to allow people with more revenue to pay the monthly for people with less.

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This sounds like a bad political tagline. It also contributes zero points to your tally of introducing a game feature that makes sense. What happens the next month when these generous high revenue having individuals raise the price or become no shows? The little guy loses and the amount of active accounts lowers anyway. If your theory of others "helping" out the lower class as a possible scenario is applicable, well then the possibility of them not existing can exist as well.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

People in the game aren't just paying customers, they're also effectively a form of content for the other players to play with. A cosmetic store does nothing in this direction (other that annoying a lot of people).

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If this system works so well then why are EVE and TERA's numbers so low? A monthly $15 is a minor cost to any individual who spends their time playing games. It is $15 for a reason: consistent content. It makes buying games on a weekly or monthly basis irrelevant because you have something that evolves each month. Something that gives you new content, gameplay, entertainment every week. Something you could never fully beat. This system is a cop out, a mask, a cancer to actually fixing the real problem: make your game something worth the cost.

My remarks regarding the digital store were to service the developing company, which you claim this does as well. This doesn't as much. It requires support, operation costs, and constant testing, just like everything else. This is not a set it and forget it system. This is something that will have side effects on the economy, which will require more balancing. It doesn't matter how many infographs you show me - it's on the AH, it's for sale, it's going to affect it. If you truly want to fight currency selling then maybe you should really analyze the failed designs they are taking advantage of.

The digital store may require a bit more in operation costs and maintenance, but the extra revenue gained in comparison would be dramatic.

No thanks.

If people want to buy gil to get ahead in the game let them jump through the dangerous hoops of the dark RMT side. While I who spent my own time to get my gil don't have to risk that.

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Originally Posted by Heavens

Features like these were invented to keep interest in a game, because they introduce new ways of play. If you actually solve the problem and introduce true forms of new play, these systems become irrelevant. You are arguing for something that should be irrelevant to begin with.

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This is a logical fallacy, as there's no system, no polish, no fixing that can effectively remove people leaving the game and being on the fence about continuing their sub or not. It's just the nature of the market. This system helps keeping a number of them and getting em back.

You talk about it like it's an alternative, but it isn't, as a developer can easily improve a game AND implement this system to tempt those that the improvements don't catch.

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This sounds like a bad political tagline. It also contributes zero points to your tally of introducing a game feature that makes sense. What happens the next month when these generous high revenue having individuals raise the price or become no shows? The little guy loses and the amount of active accounts lowers anyway. If your theory of others "helping" out the lower class as a possible scenario is applicable, well then the possibility of them not existing can exist as well.

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Sure, find me an example in which that happened. It sure never did on TERA or EVE, where the flow of PLEX and Chronoscroll has always been constant since they have been introduced.

Since people aren't part of some fabulous hive mind, if one decides to raise the price, people will simply buy from those that undercut him, and he'll have to lower the price in turn in order to sell and not just keep a paperweight in his inventory. If one disappears, someone else will take his place.

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If this system works so well then why are EVE and TERA's numbers so low?

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TERA's numbers aren't disclosed, but the servers have a very healthy population. And lol at EVE having low numbers. It's one of the most successful MMOs of all time, and its numbers are still growing (and they will grow further with the introduction of DUST 514).

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A monthly $15 is a minor cost to any individual who spends their time playing games.

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For you maybe, but not for everyone. If it was so minor, free to play games wouldn't be so popular.

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make your game something worth the cost.

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Again, you can do both. Sorry. Doesn't hold water.

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My remarks regarding the digital store were to service the developing company, which you claim this does as well. This doesn't as much. It requires support, operation costs, and constant testing, just like everything else. This is not a set it and forget it system. This is something that will have side effects on the economy, which will require more balancing. It doesn't matter how many infographs you show me - it's on the AH, it's for sale, it's going to affect it. If you truly want to fight currency selling then maybe you should really analyze the failed designs they are taking advantage of.

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It's a very low maintenance system, as all it requires are a few database calls. After the initial implementation and testing it runs almost by itself,

Comparing it to running a cosmetic store and creating a decent flow of content for it is absolutely ludicrous.

Things don't have side effects in the economy just because you say so. There are failsafes to prevent it, and in both previous experiences, it didn't happen. You have no reason to assume that it would here.

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The digital store may require a bit more in operation costs and maintenance, but the extra revenue gained in comparison would be dramatic.

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the store only gains revenue, but it does nothing to keep people playing. And players are a resource to a MMORPG, as much as revenue itself. In addition to that, cosmetic stores also act as a strong deterrent for people, that already pay a monthly fee and see the developer working to create content that they can't enjoy unless they pay even more.

Cosmetic stores in Pay to Play games *always* gain the developer a lot of negativity.

I would really like to see a rep post here. This debate just keeps going in circles, and personal attacks are getting kind of ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Heavens

If this system works so well then why are EVE and TERA's numbers so low?

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LOL.

sorry, but I just couldn't...LOL

You realize that Eve Online is the only MMO that have continued to grow year after year since it first came out in 2003 right? No, of course you don't, else you wouldn't be making that asinine statement.

Does Eve Online have the subscriber base of WoW or SWTOR or other of your typical mainstream theme-park MMO? no, but that is because Eve is a niche game designed for a specific audience, it has nothing to do with the PLEX system. Eve doesn't hold your hand like most MMOs do these days.

In FF14 the most you have to worry about is putting together a good party to clear the harder contents for the best gear. If FF14 was Eve, you'd be worrying about getting to the dungeon without getting killed by other players first, because those dungeons would be in nullsec, and then you'd still have to keep your eyes out while fighting the boss just in case someone already probed out your location and is about to hotdrop a fleet of capitals on your head.

In FF14, when you die, all you lose is a bit of time and some gear durability. In Eve when you "die", you usually lose everything you have on you, permanently. It makes every decision and fight matter, because you actually have something on the line.

This is why Eve will always be a niche game, because most MMO gamers are so risk-adverse they'll never dare to play a game where they can permanently lose their stuff, and in Eve, it's not a question of whether you will lose stuff or not, it's just a matter of when.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

I would really like to see a rep post here. This debate just keeps going in circles, and personal attacks are getting kind of ridiculous.

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Well, that's the internet for you, and this type of topics are usually very controversial. It's really unfortunate really, because it would make for some good discussions if people would actually put in the time to think and discuss things intelligently, which you seems to have been doing, instead of jumping to conclusions based on faulty assumptions.

Id love this option and also a closer look into the payment options. No matter what payment type I try I almost ALWAYS get hit with a error code trying to pay. Why should it be so hard and frustrating to have them take my money? Before someone says "Your doing it wrong" there's actually a lot of posts of people having this same issue and if it pops up you have to wait 24 hrs, try again and get the same code. It's a issue there side they constantly try do blame on your bank/CC. I wish it wasn't so bloody difficult to give you money SE!

On a side note im also down with cosmetic cash shops. If someone wants to pay for a bad ass skin or bikini that's their prerogative. I personally do like to buy a few skins, but im against actual useful items that cause the player base to -have- to spend the money to get things done.

Great, informative topic. Thanks Abriael and others that some very good posts here.

At the same time my frustration while reading it was reaching critical levels. I always forget how there's a big part of FF community is it's own kind of breed, allergic to logic and facts. It's like we are in the Dark Ages....

Personally, while it is clear that a system like that won't just pop up at launch (and anyone thinking that people are arguing that it should... just get out), I believe it could be a pretty good idea to consider that approach in the long run. S-E will know the best what they may or may not do with their game, irrelevant on what is said here.

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Originally Posted by Hart

Cui bono

I think instead of actually legitimizing this whole thing, we should look at the people defending it.

Oh look, Abriael has been playing since launch and doesn't have a crafting or gathering job to 50. By reading his lodestone blog, I see that he might have an issue with gil. Also by looking at his start date and his current job levels, I now see where hes coming from when he says

• axemtitanium - No crafting what-so-ever and no gathering job either.
• Ahmera Mae - Little to no crafting and no Gathering.

Makes me wonder, might you three have some extra pocket change you might want to convert to gil? Hmmm...

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What the? If you think crafting or gathering is the fastest way to make money in this game, you're dead wrong. I've made 6-18M gil of pure profit in an afternoon of spiritbonding without trying. Unless you have the devil's luck double-melding relics, no crafter can make that kind of money that quickly with just 20 market ward slots. I've also made 5-10M per session farming Garlean mats with the LS. If anything, I'd be one of the people buying PLEX for gil to play this game for free. At any rate, if you've actually been reading my posts, you'd know that I don't think a PLEX-type system is guaranteed to work with XIV. I'm merely suggesting the idea has merit and is worthy of consideration, instead of dismissal outright. Ad hominem attacks don't benefit the debate at all.

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Originally Posted by Davorok

I would be in favor of the Flex Pass it it acted as a "Buddy Pass" with a Registration & Delivery System outside of the game world.

If it were an in-game trade-able (for gil) item, I do not see how it would limit RMT. In fact I believe it would encourage more RMT. Here is my reasoning:

I would basically have 3 options to play the game:

1) Pay my monthly fee of $10 or $15 USD.

2) Farm enough gil in-game to buy a Flex Pass: Price unknown but let's say 150,000 gil (could be 1-2 mil though)

3) Pay an RMT $10.00 USD for 1 mil gil, buy Flex Pass for 150,000 and still have 850,000 gil left over.
3a) or Pay RMT $5.00 USD for 500,000 gil and still have 350,000 gil left over.

Now if the Flex Passes start selling for 1-2 mil gil, yes the RMT's would have to work harder for less profit but they would adjust and everyone going for option 2 (farming gil) would suffer from inflation.

Bottom line for me though is this: I just don't like the idea of Purchasing In-Game money with IRL Money (which is what "sellers" of the Flex Pass would be doing) and is why I stay away from supposed "Free-to-Play" games and "Cash Shop" games and I would stay away from FFXIV if it takes that route also.

I'm sorry if "I don't like it" is not a good enough reason for anyone else but it's good enough for me. :)

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No real life situation would ever result in this scenario. You can't make up numbers for this because that's never how it would work in real life. Players who purchase PLEX to sell for in-game currency will ALWAYS undercut the RMT in order to get their PLEX sold, forcing RMT to continuously lower their prices to stay competitive. At a certain point, RMT stops being (reasonably) profitable in this game, compared to a different MMO without this system so they'll jump ship to another game. Also, consider this: why would you ever buy gil from an RMT with the risk of getting your account banned if you can purchase it legally at a better rate? The choice is a no-brainer.

I can't say I'm for or against it, because I haven't played TERA or EVE, and I don't know how similiar/different they are to 2.0. If such a system would benefit the game without hurting new players, then I'd be all for it.

But TBH, I don't want to see my Final Fantasy turn into some kind of capitalistic corporate market, where the largest Free Companies are the ones that are headed by Mr. Rich Guy A and Mr. Rich Guy B, who operate on the idea of turning a profit from the game. Just doesn't sound very... Final Fantasy, y'know?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Abriael

So, since you have absolutely no solid argument, now you're resorting to personal attacks and assumptions (not that you didn't before, anyway)?

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"I'm not rude or confrontational"..continue to deny it all you want, it wasn't a personal attack lol, it's called an observation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Denmo

But TBH, I don't want to see my Final Fantasy turn into some kind of capitalistic corporate market, where the largest Free Companies are the ones that are headed by Mr. Rich Guy A and Mr. Rich Guy B, who operate on the idea of turning a profit from the game. Just doesn't sound very... Final Fantasy, y'know?

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That's another thing. In a way, this game will be more like a pay-to-win. Just not the same pay model, but definitely can work in a similar fashion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nuru

That's another thing. In a way, this game will be more like a pay-to-win. Just not the same pay model, but definitely can work in a similar fashion.

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Thank you, thank you. what ive been saying all along.

if you have legacy then its $10 a month which is 120 a year. that's the price of 2 full price games that cost $60.each. I think a game you can play everyday for a year is worth the price of 2 games you would prob only play for a few weeks so I don't see the need for anything to change. For people who don't have legacy, you'll have to pay a little more, sucks to be i guess.