Online Store is Getting Worse!

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Oddly enough? I've seen zero people here do that. It seems you're opting to use belittling tactics because not everyone agree with you. It's a common move you make here

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5 min-etes ago~

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Originally Posted by Renalt

I know when I'm arguing with a wall. And I won't.

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That was really mean. :'^(

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

QUESTION:Why did the devs give the greenlight to make a 5 minute slice of life cutscene in game but put critical parts of XIV lore about the sundering in Babylon's Fall? :^D

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I'm sorry, what???

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

one more mental dance i see. well have fun as long as you can befor people like you will make it so any thing is payed for.

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btw, it's mental gymnastics and you're using the phrase wrong. (shocker :rolleyes: )

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

btw, it's mental gymnastics and you're using the phrase wrong. (shocker :rolleyes: )

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*sees someone play mental volleyball by splitting hairs of the meaning of a phrase*
Okay, we need to stop. This is getting too meta, lol.

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Originally Posted by ameliaw

I'm sorry, what???

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I believe it was from a Babylon's fall crossover event with XIV. The event itself went into the sundering itself.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

*sees someone play mental volleyball by splitting hairs of the meaning of a phrase*
Okay, we need to stop. This is getting too meta, lol.

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Can't stop. Won't stop.

Mental Roulette is where it's at. :p

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

Funny you mention Conan Exiles considering modders are doing the same thing to fix the devs mistakes with the new races, lmao. Also, it's a bit disingenuous to compare a f2p game like waifu impact to a monthly sub game like Final Fantasia XIV. Though the fact you can make comparisons to those two when it comes to cash shop stuff is a bit worrying!

Edit:

are you going to tell me that expansions packs are not dlc and the mogshop is not a key example of microtransactions? I just reread what you posted and I got a good chuckle at this gem, lol.

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I mean, I did not say they weren’t those things. I said, literally, “ But it's hard to compare FFXIV as a game full of microtransactions/DLC like certain other games out there.”

As in, it is hard to compare a game that sells non-gameplay elements like skins to other games that use more that are much more predatory. I’m talking things like loot crates from EA to possibly get an OP Darth Vader level predatory.

On the above, i don’t play/don’t care about other mmo’s/f2p/etc. the games I have played that were f2p and I was into aren’t really so different from FFXIV in price at the end of the day; LOTRO comes to mind, where you had to buy each zone individually. Sure, f2p, but buying several zones makes it cost about the same as an expac of FF.

FF on the other hand has an incredibly generous free trial… so can’t really compare it to anything I know of really.

Also, I guess I should clarify- your tone seems to think I dislike mods or hate piracy. I don’t really care one way or the other about them; if it’s easy to do (eg Conan), I’m all about using mods and not buying their overpriced DLC. I haven’t bought anything from SE’s store either. Not that I can’t, I just would rather buy an entirely new game for 30 bucks or whatever.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

I have nothing to do with it. This is the world we live in.

P.S. Don't ask questions you don't want the answer to.

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you understand that if you and people like you (clearly you alone is insignificant as we as me) stop support it then it will not be a thing

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

you understand that if you and people like you (clearly you alone is insignificant as we as me) stop support it then it will not be a thing

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Obviously, but that's not going to happen, so there's no use getting wound up about it.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Obviously, but that's not going to happen, so there's no use getting wound up about it.

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so you better kill gaming that save it?

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

so you better kill gaming that save it?

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there are many(including a well known streamer) who think the only solution is to let things get worse before it gets better.
Trial by fire sorta thing.

WHEN THAT IS SO FALSE.

[Sure, SE has been in the fire, but]
That fire doesn't always dictate how things go

Wow this is still going on eh? Well I got a long day at work and this should be a fun read.

I just dont buy anything. works out for me. I usually wait for the big sale once a year and get 1-2 things.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

This would be fine if the game was F2P, but it has a box cost AND a subscription. Those sources of payment should be plenty to afford to pay the modelers and art team.

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It kind of is F2P.......with how much you can do in the trial but I 100% see your point.

To get ALL the features of XIV, you gotta buy the games, pay the sub.......on top of optional cosmetics....On top of mounts....On top of "Gasp" level boost? And even Mission Skips? Not many, if any MMO allows the player to buy a pass to complete the story.......P2W...cough....cough.....
(Insert triggered white knights on their white stallions....XIV has P2W features, get over it..........)

I will say this, XIV will be the best F2P MMO on the market once Storm Blood Gets added (If it gets added). I still believe they can make a hefty profit, by keeping the F2P (Sometimes sub) leeches like myself several expansions behind, while the payers get all the shiny new stuff.

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Originally Posted by MichiKyou

I just dont buy anything. works out for me. I usually wait for the big sale once a year and get 1-2 things.

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It is still possible and perfectly fine to object to and compain about these things even if one has no intention of actually buying it.

Even were it free, I probably wouldn't pick it up, because I want the glam less than I want to put in the effort to go to the store and send it to my character.

That doesn't mean I can't find it utterly ridiculous they are charging extortionate amounts for a single character glam.

I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but if I wanted to buy this glam for my main and a single alt (which I would have to because it is not account wide), it would cost me more than the current expansion (15.00*2 vs 29.99).

Online store prices are that of real-life outfits prices which is ridiculous! It shouldn't cost more than 5 at most but thanks to Limsa whales who have no life other than buying online store items as soon as they come out and Fantasia in insane bundles.

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Originally Posted by Kranel_San

Online store prices are that of real-life outfits prices which is ridiculous! It shouldn't cost more than 5 at most but thanks to Limsa whales who have no life other than buying online store items as soon as they come out and Fantasia in insane bundles.

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I'd rather pay whatever they're asking than $150 for a CHANCE to get a single outfit like some games ask for now. (Looking at you gacha games) *shrug*

Might just be because I frequent games that have a lot of heavy monetization but it could always be worse.

As I've said before, I don't really care about giving over $20 for an OPTIONAL outfit on top of paying a sub. This is nothing weird in my world because all of my games require some form of sub or lump sum to unlock all of the options/expacs available (to fully experience the game) & have a paid cash shop for cosmetics....SWTOR, LOTRO, ESO, GW2....just to name a few. PSO2:NGS is another great example because they require a sub or for you to pay to even sell items on the marketboard while also having a gacha based cosmetic system. You can argue that they aren't making me pay a sub to access the game as a whole but they're still locking convenience and basic features behind a subscription that encourages people to sub anyway.

At the end of the day, no one is making anyone buy anything from Mogststion, no one ever will. If you think it's worth it, buy the thing you want. If you don't, then don't. It's there for people who want it, same as everywhere else.

Side note I don't think whale really fits with only spending $20....but hey I'll wear the title with pride.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

I'd rather pay whatever they're asking than $150 for a CHANCE to get a single outfit like some games ask for now. (Looking at you gacha games) *shrug*

Might just be because I frequent games that have a lot of heavy monetization but it could always be worse.

As I've said before, I don't really care about giving over $20 for an OPTIONAL outfit on top of paying a sub. This is nothing weird in my world because all of my games require some form of sub or lump sum to unlock all of the options/expacs available (to fully experience the game) & have a paid cash shop for cosmetics....SWTOR, LOTRO, ESO, GW2....just to name a few. PSO2:NGS is another great example because they require a sub or for you to pay to even sell items on the marketboard while also having a gacha based cosmetic system. You can argue that they aren't making me pay a sub to access the game as a whole but they're still locking convenience and basic features behind a subscription that encourages people to sub anyway.

At the end of the day, no one is making anyone buy anything from Mogststion, no one ever will. If you think it's worth it, buy the thing you want. If you don't, then don't. It's there for people who want it, same as everywhere else.

Side note I don't think whale really fits with only spending $20....but hey I'll wear the title with pride.

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Gacha games are gambling-like games that are developed to drain your money dry. Complaining about monetization in gambling games is like going to a gambling hall and complaining about the entire place.

The complaint here is about FFXIV (and any modern MMO game by extension) in which you already pay a subscription but instead of providing you with something new in-game for free. They'd instead focus on releasing new store outfits with insane prices. To simply put, how many free new outfits did we have this year and how many cash-shop outfits were released? How good was the quality of the free outfits and how good was the quality of the cash shop outfits? This is the issue. Selling cosmetics in the cash shop is fine, but the constant release of overpriced new cash-shop outfits every two or three months with barely any good free outfits in-game is not fine.

If this was gacha or free to play game then things will be different, but when I pay a subscription I'd like to receive a good amount of free cosmetics at least in the same frequency there are new cash-shop cosmetics.

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Originally Posted by Kranel_San

Gacha games are gambling-like games that are developed to drain your money dry. Complaining about monetization in gambling games is like going to a gambling hall and complaining about the entire place.

The complaint here is about FFXIV (and any modern MMO game by extension) in which you already pay a subscription but instead of providing you with something new in-game for free. They'd instead focus on releasing new store outfits with insane prices. To simply put, how many free new outfits did we have this year and how many cash-shop outfits were released? How good was the quality of the free outfits and how good was the quality of the cash shop outfits? This is the issue. Selling cosmetics in the cash shop is fine, but the constant release of overpriced new cash-shop outfits every two or three months with barely any good free outfits in-game is not fine.

If this was gacha or free to play game then things will be different, but when I pay a subscription I'd like to receive a good amount of free cosmetics at least in the same frequency there are new cash-shop cosmetics.

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Did we not just get a few new outfits for free with the recent updates/event? Two new ones via IS and the summer bikini are off the top of my head atm. If you want to throw gear into the mix we got new stuff from Troia, tomestone gear and savage/normal gear. There's also the new glam from custom deliveries.

Aside from the Street Set, Lyse's dress (which people were screaming to go into the Mog shop for ages, not for free, people wanted to PAY for it) and this new fat cat outfit...have they put out anything new into Mog lately? I might just be forgetting some but thinking from 6.1 to now, I don't think there has been a ton.

If you're just expecting them to send you free outfits randomly in the mail just for existing...lol.

Also on the topic above, where would they put more free outfits? They already exist in all of the places I can think of but if you have a suggestion for where more glam should be rewarded, I'm curious. Like, should all dungeons include a free glam set outside of the gear drops?

Also, the thing about thinking something is good or bad fashion wise is subjective. What you might not like, someone else will. The point there is that the game is not putting out free clothes that are to YOUR tastes, rather than none of the free stuff is good, period. Because a lot of the free stuff, to me, is good and I wear more free stuff than I do mog glam tbh lol.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

Did we not just get a few new outfits for free with the recent updates/event? Two new ones via IS and the summer bikini are off the top of my head atm. If you want to throw gear into the mix we got new stuff from Troia, tomestone gear and savage/normal gear. There's also the new glam from custom deliveries.

Aside from the Street Set, Lyse's dress (which people were screaming to go into the Mog shop for ages, not for free, people wanted to PAY for it) and this new fat cat outfit...have they put out anything new into Mog lately? I might just be forgetting some but thinking from 6.1 to now, I don't think there has been a ton.

If you're just expecting them to send you free outfits randomly in the mail just for existing...lol.

Also on the topic above, where would they put more free outfits? They already exist in all of the places I can think of but if you have a suggestion for where more glam should be rewarded, I'm curious. Like, should all dungeons include a free glam set outside of the gear drops?

Also, the thing about thinking something is good or bad fashion wise is subjective. What you might not like, someone else will. The point there is that the game is not putting out free clothes that are to YOUR tastes, rather than saying that none of the free stuff is just goof at all.

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You're creating a strawman, they never said they wanted free outfits mailed to them. When you pay a subscription, some people expect to get a complete service. when you feel that you're not getting the complete service, and that focus is on getting you to spend more money on a cash shop, it can feel bad.

I don't particularly mind the cash shop, I never have to see it if I don't look for it, but I can see the OPs point.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

You're creating a strawman, they never said they wanted free outfits mailed to them. When you pay a subscription, some people expect to get a complete service. when you feel that you're not getting the complete service, and that focus is on getting you to spend more money on a cash shop, it can feel bad.

I don't particularly mind the cash shop, I never have to see it if I don't look for it, but I can see the OPs point.

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I meant it as a sarcastic comment. If you thought I was serious then that's unfortunate.

And yes, you should expect a complete service...which we get in my opinion (outside of sloppy bug problems but whatever). I don't necessarily feel a push or pull to pay for cash shop items either, I just see something I like. If I don't like something, I don't buy it. They aren't shoving it in your face either like some games tend to do outside of an advertisement on the launcher that you can autopilot past on login.

I guess in this case I don't see a massive increase in mogstation stuff over in game items, it feels pretty even to me in terms of what we get per patch along with one or two mog items. If others do then that's fair enough. Like I said, fashion is subjective and what you think is good quality will be different to someone else.

Apologies to anyone who isn't being fulfilled by the current free glam/gear options in game and I hope they produce something in the future that you do enjoy. Damning the Mogstation though isn't going to get them to change the style they're going for and this thread won't get change you want. Probably should start a thread strictly for free glam ideas and get that rolling so they can actually have something to look at.

if its too expensive then don't buy from them.

I think that rising costs of store items will only drive more and more people to mod the game

can only imagine where this ends up leading us

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

I meant it as a sarcastic comment. If you thought I was serious then that's unfortunate.

And yes, you should expect a complete service...which we get in my opinion (outside of sloppy bug problems but whatever). I don't necessarily feel a push or pull to pay for cash shop items either, I just see something I like. If I don't like something, I don't buy it. They aren't shoving it in your face either like some games tend to do outside of an advertisement on the launcher that you can autopilot past on login.

I guess in this case I don't see a massive increase in mogstation stuff over in game items, it feels pretty even to me in terms of what we get per patch along with one or two mog items. If others do then that's fair enough. Like I said, fashion is subjective and what you think is good quality will be different to someone else.

Apologies to anyone who isn't being fulfilled by the current free glam/gear options in game and I hope they produce something in the future that you do enjoy. Damning the Mogstation though isn't going to get them to change the style they're going for and this thread won't get change you want. Probably should start a thread strictly for free glam ideas and get that rolling so they can actually have something to look at.

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It never serves your argument to be a blind company zealot "for fun". lol

Would you all prefer the cash shop not exist in its entirety at all? Less options = better?

Or would you prefer regions where the game is under entirely different operating setup (China/Korea) which don’t have a subscription version and rely on cash shop items to operate to simply not share the things they’ve created to keep their operation afloat?

Bottom line, the things created in the cash shop were created expressly to sell in the cash shop. No cash shop = no extra optional items. And no side-benefits that come from the sales (like extra housing wards).

Love it, hate it, your call…but it is incredibly disingenuous to call this cash shop predatory or unfair when compared to other games of similar type.

If it’s an issue of price, it certainly might feel unfair for some, but as long as the items are selling, there is no incentive to reduce price..and why should SE when they know it fuels future endeavors.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Would you all prefer the cash shop not exist in its entirety at all? Less options = better?

Or would you prefer regions where the game is under entirely different operating setup (China/Korea) which don’t have a subscription version and rely on cash shop items to operate to simply not share the things they’ve created to keep their operation afloat?

Bottom line, the things created in the cash shop were created expressly to sell in the cash shop. No cash shop = no extra optional items. And no side-benefits that come from the sales (like extra housing wards).

Love it, hate it, your call…but it is incredibly disingenuous to call this cash shop predatory or unfair when compared to other games of similar type.

If it’s an issue of price, it certainly might feel unfair for some, but as long as the items are selling, there is no incentive to reduce price..and why should SE when they know it fuels future endeavors.

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You're presenting a false dilemma. We have no hard evidence that the cash shop items would simply never have been created had the cash shop not existed. We don't know how much of the cash shop income is directly returned to the development of the game or simply adds to the profits of the game. It's like saying that a billionaire CEO wouldn't give a Christmas bonus to his employees if he had a reduced salary.

Also, it's not disingenuous to have an opinion on something regardless of how it compares to other similar products. If everyone is doing something predatory, that doesn't make it not predatory.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

You're presenting a false dilemma. We have no hard evidence that the cash shop items would simply never have been created had the cash shop not existed. We don't know how much of the cash shop income is directly returned to the development of the game or simply adds to the profits of the game. It's like saying that a billionaire CEO wouldn't give a Christmas bonus to his employees if he had a reduced salary.

Also, it's not disingenuous to have an opinion on something regardless of how it compares to other similar products. If everyone is doing something predatory, that doesn't make it not predatory.

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I think it's safe to say a lot of the items wouldn't exist without the cash shop.

I agree with this. However, I don't think FFXIV's cash shop is really predatory yet, people can argue the pricing, but that's not really predatory, in my opinion. Predatory would be if they were doing "limited time" sales, items on rotation, premium battlepass, lootboxes, pay for convenience, etc..

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Predatory would be if they were doing ... pay for convenience, etc..

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They do do pay for convenience: SDS Fenrir.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

They do do pay for convenience: SDS Fenris.

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Of course, I'm sure there is an argument to be made that certain aspects or items are predatory, or bordering on it, but I don't think the whole store is at that level yet. Like someone could argue story or level skips, things not being account bound, etc..

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I think it's safe to say a lot of the items wouldn't exist without the cash shop.

I agree with this. However, I don't think FFXIV's cash shop is really predatory yet, people can argue the pricing, but that's not really predatory, in my opinion. Predatory would be if they were doing "limited time" sales, items on rotation, premium battlepass, lootboxes, pay for convenience, etc..

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agreed, the only thing I think is truly predatory is the retainers, but players have accepted it, so it is what it is.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Of course, I'm sure there is an argument to be made that certain aspects or items are predatory, but I don't think the whole store is at that level yet. Like someone could argue story or level skips, things not being account bound, etc..

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I'm not saying SDS Fenrir is predatory, but the little speed boost sure is nice. :)

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

agreed, the only thing I think is truly predatory is the retainers, but players have accepted it, so it is what it is.

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Right. Retainers. I don't really use them so they weren't on my mind, but I do recall complaints about them in the past. I think it really depends. People were more accepting of the cash shop in the past, or things like retainers, but things can change very quickly.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

I'm not saying SDS Fenrir is predatory, but the little speed boost sure is nice. :)

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I don't think I'd personally label it "predatory" either, but yeah, I'm sure that speed boost is nice. I don't have that mount. :p

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I think it's safe to say a lot of the items wouldn't exist without the cash shop.

I agree with this. However, I don't think FFXIV's cash shop is really predatory yet, people can argue the pricing, but that's not really predatory, in my opinion. Predatory would be if they were doing "limited time" sales, items on rotation, premium battlepass, lootboxes, pay for convenience, etc..

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One of my bigger annoyances, which I just discovered recently, is the fact that they sell retainer level skips on the cash shop. I've always hated how your retainer reverts back to level one when you switch jobs, even when switching to jobs you previously had at max level. Instead of fixing this in-game, they've gone the simple route of just selling you a quick solution.

And then there's the selling of retainers in general. Before that was a thing, there had been several quotes floating around how they couldn't add extra storage because of <reasons>, but then that went away once they could charge you for them. And we can't forget the extra retainer if you pay for the companion app. I would have liked to have seen them focus more on reducing item bloat and creating better storage systems (glamour logs, material banks, etc), but at this point, are they really going to want to get rid of all that extra retainer profit? Only SE knows the answer to that one. :X

These definitely fall more into the predatory category for me since the in-game options are optimized poorly. I realize those are incredibly mild compared to what you can find in other games, but I don't think that gives SE a pass. Then there's the issue of them just being greedy AF as a whole with their pricing models, lack of account-wide items, sheer number of paid options in a subscription game, etc....

Retainers are just the XIV version of XI's mules. FFXI charged you an extra dollar for each character on the same account. However, most of us just used them as storage and extra market board slots.

So XIV gave you actual extra characters for free, and made it very difficult to use those extra characters as storage, but added retainers that are easily accessible on the main account for that same purpose, instead.

(I still have an extra character for pure storage, but that's because I am in charge of the FC and the friggin chest was full of airship junk nobody was using.)

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Originally Posted by Ivtrix

I think that rising costs of store items will only drive more and more people to mod the game

can only imagine where this ends up leading us

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Yep, no point in buying fancy outfits off the store when you can download a huge variety of high quality outfits online for free.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Yep, no point in buying fancy outfits off the store when you can download a huge variety of high quality outfits online for free.

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Probably by then it gets so out of hand that it forces SE's hand to implement anti-cheat or whatever

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Probably by then it gets so out of hand that it forces SE's hand to implement anti-cheat or whatever

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Kind of already is that far. Looking at a certain illicit website and it has 18000+ mods with the top ones having 300k+ downloads

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Yep, no point in buying fancy outfits off the store when you can download a huge variety of high quality outfits online for free.

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Except no one can see you're mod-based outfits but you.
Limsa Lominsa Aetheryte Plaza demonstrates why that's an issue:
for many people, glams are for others to see, as well as oneself.

Add to that the risk that a popular mod may eventually be hijacked to serve as a cyberattack vector, and it seems likely that there will always be a large market for authentic glams.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Kind of already is that far. Looking at a certain illicit website and it has 18000+ mods with the top ones having 300k+ downloads

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By that I mean if people start making a lot of noise that the devs or mods start catching them often ( which lately that seems to be the case with a lot of streamers) where they realize the actual epidemic.

Right now, I'm assuming a lot in the team actively go out of their way to not look up the sites otherwise they'd be implementing the ban hammer so hard. They're in that awkward middle of acknowledging that it exists but not knowing HOW HARD are these mods existing for the game.

Which again goes back to my issue about people downloading mods that fix or add much requested features into the game when doing so makes it very less likely that the actual dev team will pay attention to these requests, when it does garner a lot of traction. Which is why a lot of official QoL stuff tends to take so long to implement I imagine.

Keep complaining to have them add these features, don't get lazy and complacent and have the playerbase do it. Get SE, it's their job to improve this game.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Except no one can see you're mod-based outfits but you.
Limsa Lominsa Aetheryte Plaza demonstrates why that's an issue:
for many people, glams are for others to see, as well as oneself.

Add to that the risk that a popular mod may eventually be hijacked to serve as a cyberattack vector, and it seems likely that there will always be a large market for authentic glams.

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Ah ha so you already know about the plugin that lets you share appearances, but also show you don't know how it works by implying that. Good to know.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Keep complaining to have them add these features, don't get lazy and complacent and have the playerbase do it got SE, it's their job to improve this game.

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...wait, but when we point out that Hrothgar and Viera are getting fixes with such things and ask the devs to improve on it, people go haywire :x