6.2 Hrothgar Update

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

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I am pretty sure this was the thread I was done in, but I will post one more time in reply since I was named. It looks like hrothgar are getting an ear update for their hair! This is what I mean about being persistent! It seems they just didn't communicate they were doing such until they had something to show for it.

Hope this is good news for you, hrothgar players.

https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/t/dd...png?1660899534

Of course it's good news but it's just the bare minimum. They could've added more hair models and released the head customisation as well.

Better than nothing. They’ll add more soon eventually.

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Originally Posted by ElizanderNorisse

Better than nothing. They’ll add more soon eventually.

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Eventually? You mean, in another 3 years?

Glad they changed the hairstyles to include ears after the complaints, but I'm still remembering how they said it took them years to get 3 incomplete hairstyles out. Things look grim for Hrothgar still, as we see more races get newer hairstyles while we're just fixing older ones from a previous patch. Hopefully, it doesn't become a pattern where it takes Hrothgar 2 patch cycles to get the same hairstyle other races do in 1 patch cycle.

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Originally Posted by kyyninen_kirahvi

Of course it's good news but it's just the bare minimum. They could've added more hair models and released the head customisation as well.

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I suspect you'll get more hair additions as well. I wish they'd post the entire list of what's coming but I suppose that prevents a rush on the market board before maintenance ends. It's one of the first things i'll do when I log on is to see which viera hairs we are getting and which I might need to purchase on the MB because prices will get silly quick.

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Originally Posted by ElizanderNorisse

Hope this is good news for you, hrothgar players.

https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/t/dd...png?1660899534

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Originally Posted by kyyninen_kirahvi

Of course it's good news but it's just the bare minimum. They could've added more hair models and released the head customisation as well.

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People wont be happy til they get the world and more.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

People wont be happy til they get the world and more.

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Thank you, person playing a race that got actual effort this patch.
Everyone else is getting new crap, we get ears we shouldve had in the first place

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

Eventually? You mean, in another 3 years?

Glad they changed the hairstyles to include ears after the complaints, but I'm still remembering how they said it took them years to get 3 incomplete hairstyles out. Things look grim for Hrothgar still, as we see more races get newer hairstyles while we're just fixing older ones from a previous patch. Hopefully, it doesn't become a pattern where it takes Hrothgar 2 patch cycles to get the same hairstyle other races do in 1 patch cycle.

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I was really hoping of all viera handmedowns we would get rainmaker this patch but that would require them to put any effort into hrothgar.
we STILL arent getting all our racial styles unlocked from faces ffs

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Originally Posted by XiRon

Everyone else is getting new crap, we get ears we shouldve had in the first place

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Seriously lol, it is a good change but imagine being snarky towards people not cheering and celebrating the equivalent of crumbs being thrown their way.

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Originally Posted by XiRon

Thank you, person playing a race that got actual effort this patch.
Everyone else is getting new crap, we get ears we shouldve had in the first place

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I don't think that's a given. They showed the apparent fix to the first release i don't think not showing a pic of a new one rules out we're not getting new ones. Have to wait for maintenance to end to see.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

People wont be happy til they get the world and more.

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Depending on what is said during the patch reading my opinion might soften but it's unreasonable to expect people to celebrate something that shouldn't have happened in the first place. Getting hair was good. Losing the ears was bad. Also the wilful ignorance of the wishes of hrothgar players doesn't help.

Releasing the head customisation could be seen as a "hotfix" and giving players the possibility to choose different hairstyles that already exist (it wouldn't really be but would be better than nothing).

I hope this is a good start in giving Hrothies the proper treatment they deserve, in any case! It's a small victory and we've got a long way to go, but here's to hoping that y'all get more hairstyles and adjustments further down the road.

Holy crap people are still complaining even after the devs delivered exactly what everyone wanted lol

Yoshi was actually right...

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

Holy crap people are still complaining even after the devs delivered exactly what everyone wanted lol

Yoshi was actually right...

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Company delivers quarter-finished project
Players complain about this
Company decides to make it half finished and not a quarter finished

"Why isnt everyone happy?1! They're so ungrateful".

I imagine a lot of players arent happy with being given scraps at a time for a feature that shouldve been fully working on release. It's like you have £50, the company takes £50, gives you back £25 and tells you to be happy with it. Crude analogy but that's the vibe I get from the situation.

Imagine the devs taking this attitude as feedback thinking that players aren't happy with the changes anyway so they stop listening to complaints

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

I don't think that's a given. They showed the apparent fix to the first release i don't think not showing a pic of a new one rules out we're not getting new ones. Have to wait for maintenance to end to see.

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generally speaking, unless they specifically said Hrothgar were getting a new one, it's safer to temper your expectations and assume they aren't.

I genuinely can't believe the complete lack of empathy and self-reflection of those two viera players, who already had what we just got 8 months earlier than us (and received even more the two following patches) but still have the audacity to tell us we should be grateful for it.

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Originally Posted by kyyninen_kirahvi

Of course it's good news but it's just the bare minimum. They could've added more hair models and released the head customisation as well.

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i know after all this time it's hard to be grateful, or patient, but y'all really need to be a little more thankful that they went back and fixed the hairstyles. just because we aren't getting new hairstyles now doesn't mean we are getting any at all. they took the time to fix something they realized no one was happy with and for that i am happy because it means i am no longer limited to the 2 hairstyles. Even if they don't add anything beyond those in 6.2, they are going in the right direction and that is what's important.

Maybe the real hrothgar ears are the friends we made a long the way.

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Originally Posted by Jason_Ashford

i know after all this time it's hard to be grateful, or patient, but y'all really need to be a little more thankful that they went back and fixed the hairstyles. just because we aren't getting new hairstyles now doesn't mean we are getting any at all. they took the time to fix something they realized no one was happy with and for that i am happy because it means i am no longer limited to the 2 hairstyles. Even if they don't add anything beyond those in 6.2, they are going in the right direction and that is what's important.

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No no. This is not a "step in the right direction". This is "step they shouldve taken the first gd time". Like does anyone REALLY believe they couldnt fix hrothgar ears at any point during 6.1? I'm sorry but they could, and they should have. But unfortunately, because I am always always correct in my negativity and cynicism it is very obvious to anyone with two functioning eyes that they deliberately screwed over hrothgar in 6.1 so they could fix this later, act like they did something, and give hrothgar jack while all the little children Daddy Yoshida lets sit at the dinner table - instead of outside in the rain eating out of a dog bowl - get new things.

Now if- IF- on 6.2 drop day we all go into Jandelaines boutique and lo and behold we can us our racial hairstyles regardless of face, or more Modern Aesthetics do not exclude hrothgar, then I will apologize for my mean-spirited cynical tone.
But that is one Lunar Whale sized "if" we're talking about.

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Originally Posted by Lustre

Company delivers quarter-finished project
Players complain about this
Company decides to make it half finished and not a quarter finished

"Why isnt everyone happy?1! They're so ungrateful".

I imagine a lot of players arent happy with being given scraps at a time for a feature that shouldve been fully working on release. It's like you have £50, the company takes £50, gives you back £25 and tells you to be happy with it. Crude analogy but that's the vibe I get from the situation.

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People wanted hairstyles with ears, hairstyles now have ears. People taking the XIV devs for granted is something that just rubs me the wrong way. Many other devs would have just called it a day and go through with their original plan and never add the ears.

Also, your arbitrary "quarters" and "halves" make no sense, nor does your weird money analogy. Hroth hairstyles were not even on the cards when the race was released, and they were very clear about that. Hroth hairstyles, Male Viera and eventually Female Hroths are all things they didn't plan for and yet have been added over time.

I do not lack for empathy, and I say this as a Viera player that can't even wear hats. The difference is that if they ever introduce hats for my race, I'll be happy. Whining about them taking longer than I would have wanted doesn't contribute anything, and I'd rather be grateful for every step in the right direction than angry about it. But that's up to each person I guess.

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Originally Posted by XiRon

No no. This is not a "step in the right direction". This is "step they shouldve taken the first gd time". Like does anyone REALLY believe they couldnt fix hrothgar ears at any point during 6.1? I'm sorry but they could, and they should have. But unfortunately, because I am always always correct in my negativity and cynicism it is very obvious to anyone with two functioning eyes that they deliberately screwed over hrothgar in 6.1 so they could fix this later, act like they did something, and give hrothgar jack while all the little children Daddy Yoshida lets sit at the dinner table - instead of outside in the rain eating out of a dog bowl - get new things.

Now if- IF- on 6.2 drop day we all go into Jandelaines boutique and lo and behold we can us our racial hairstyles regardless of face, or more Modern Aesthetics do not exclude hrothgar, then I will apologize for my mean-spirited cynical tone.
But that is one Lunar Whale sized "if" we're talking about.

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I think you're taking your cynicism a little too hard lol. They know Hrothgar players won't be happy until they have full customization options without being so limited, so it doesn't really make sense that they would delay giving y'all ears two patches straight with the purpose of acting like they did something new later. I honestly wouldn't put it past SE if they had incompetent management that didn't let the team add ears due to arbitrary constraints they imposed on themselves, tbh. I don't think they anticipated the negative backlash over the ears that they had got when the hairstyles were revealed.

As someone who left Hrothgar for male Viera, this does make me want to come back because I love my Hrothgar with the Snow bandana hair but didn't like the no ears situation.

No one here is taking the XIV devs for granted. This is a step that they should have taken to begin with, because they should know better. The hairstyles without ears looked horrible, and it's a shock that they went "Yeah, okay this is passable". A step in the right direction, but a step that has been taken way too far along for what... 3 years? I think it's perfectly fine for people to feel a bit miffed over the entire situation, even if they are slightly happy that the devs actually listened to some semblance of complaint, they took way too long to take action. I do understand that developing races in general is very taxing, and they have expressed this before, but they should have the common sense to not release something that is half done and quite frankly not even up to par with the other races they have in the game. It's inexcusable and quite frankly lazy, like they've cut corners. Not to completely disregard what they've done, but they need to continue to take the right steps forward before I have complete trust that they have Hrothgar in good hands. I literally want to play a Hrothgar, but I hate how the devs have been handling them and Viera.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

People wanted hairstyles with ears, hairstyles now have ears

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OK you do not lack empathy.

You lack empathy, reading comprehension and standards.

Even if all you read was just the very first post of this thread, you'd see that getting ears for the dumb Karen hairstyles nobody asked for was not even the first step. What we want is for all the racial hairstyles to be available for each faces, hairstyles which are selected with Hrothgar in mind ( windcaller anyone?) and not an afterthough of whatever they already had for Viera first, and if possible, the new exclusive racial hairstyles they promised us back in Shadowbringers.

Yes, Square Enix looking at our general direction for once is more than expected, but asking us to be grateful? Treating us like entitled brats because we dare asking for the bare minimum? Get the hell out with that mentality.

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Originally Posted by Kazhar

OK you do not lack empathy.

You lack empathy, reading comprehension and standards.

Even if all you read was just the very first post of this thread, you'd see that getting ears for the dumb Karen hairstyles nobody asked for was not even the first step. What we want is for all the racial hairstyles to be available for each faces, hairstyles which are selected with Hrothgar in mind ( windcaller anyone?) and not an afterthough of whatever they already had for Viera first, and if possible, the new exclusive racial hairstyles they promised us back in Shadowbringers.

Yes, Square Enix looking at our general direction for once is more than expected, but asking us to be grateful? Treating us like entitled brats because we dare asking for the bare minimum? Get the hell out with that mentality.

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I don't think anyone is asking here to jump up and down clapping your feet together like a big dumb baby over the devs fixing their mistakes.

But it's also still bratty to at least not be happy that they ARE still listening when something players have asked is finally being given. Who the hell wants to even put in the effort to give something players want if it turns out theyll still be angry about it anyway? I would just not even bother at that point if I had that type of hindsight.

We should be happy when they fix things that should be fixed and angry when stuff still isn't. There's literally no point to continue being vitriolic in this situation.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

People wanted hairstyles with ears, hairstyles now have ears. People taking the XIV devs for granted is something that just rubs me the wrong way. Many other devs would have just called it a day and go through with their original plan and never add the ears.

Also, your arbitrary "quarters" and "halves" make no sense, nor does your weird money analogy. Hroth hairstyles were not even on the cards when the race was released, and they were very clear about that. Hroth hairstyles, Male Viera and eventually Female Hroths are all things they didn't plan for and yet have been added over time.

I do not lack for empathy, and I say this as a Viera player that can't even wear hats. The difference is that if they ever introduce hats for my race, I'll be happy. Whining about them taking longer than I would have wanted doesn't contribute anything, and I'd rather be grateful for every step in the right direction than angry about it. But that's up to each person I guess.

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If you're content with mediocrity that's fine but don't expect or judge others because of it. Some people simply have higher standards than others.

I'm not sure why you think it's taking devs for granted, maybe that would apply if this was a charity and the devs were working for free, but people in this community seem to completely forget the fact it's a job and they get paid money for it lol. The relationship between the player and the developers isnt a personal one, it's a business one.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I don't think anyone is asking here to jump up and down clapping your feet together like a big dumb baby over the devs fixing their mistakes.

But it's also still bratty to at least not be happy that they ARE still listening when something players have asked is finally being given. Who the hell wants to even put in the effort to give something players want if it turns out theyll still be angry about it anyway? I would just not even bother at that point if I had that type of hindsight.

We should be happy when they fix things that should be fixed and angry when stuff still isn't. There's literally no point to continue being vitriolic in this situation.

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exactly. No one is saying that you aren't allowed to be upset with them for taking so long to give us the bare minimum, but folding your arms and petulantly saying "this isn't good enough" when they are trying to do right by hrothgar players is the textbook definition of bratty. It is also entirely unrealistic for them to drop everything else and work solely on Hrothgar. These people need to step away from the forums, and perhaps, take a break from the game as well.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I don't think anyone is asking here to jump up and down clapping your feet together like a big dumb baby over the devs fixing their mistakes.

But it's also still bratty to at least not be happy that they ARE still listening when something players have asked is finally being given. Who the hell wants to even put in the effort to give something players want if it turns out theyll still be angry about it anyway? I would just not even bother at that point if I had that type of hindsight.

We should be happy when they fix things that should be fixed and angry when stuff still isn't. There's literally no point to continue being vitriolic in this situation.

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DRK mains having to wait like 70 years to have LD fixed and their oblation/abyssal drain still sucks be like...

I mean yeah they're listening. The problem is the amount of time it takes for them to even address the problem, like even half-heartedly, it just feels like a slap in the face for the players who must wait for SE to drag their feet to fix problems that shouldn't have been problems to begin with. Captain Hindsight is a bitch though and I get how outwardly it looks like players are being ungrateful. On the same token SE should know better tho. They know Hrothgar/Viera have been given the short stick on everything on a game where the playerbase values customization highly.

Again, I don't think SE is like intentionally handicapping Hrothgar players so they can be showered in praises in how they fixed them later. In my mind, it just doesn't even make sense and I don't think developers/managers want to waste time in leaving shit intentionally broken or left out cause they want the playerbase to thank them for giving them what they should've had to begin with lol. I think the management of SE is just fucking weird and they place these constraints on the devs for no reason other than "just because" and being set in stone of ye olde ways, but who knows tbh. That's just my speculation.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

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1 - No one is taking them for granted. We've been asking for complete and functional hairstyles for three years. When the only thing you present after so long are the worst choices available and then snip out the ears, then .
"Many other devs would have just called it a day and go through with their original plan and never add the ears." Yes girlie, and you know what we call those? BAD DEVELOPERS. Look no further than Riot Games.
Because all we've done was point out flaws in their design and a very noticeable lack of interest. They're good developers otherwise, but even good developers make mistakes. There's a clear difference between that and calling them bad devs.
Ignoring that is ignoring the whole context behind the race. Then again, I doubt you'd have any context on our race given you don't even play it. So why would you care?

2 - No, what was not on the cards was Hrothgars wearing other races' hairstyles.
Hrothgars having racially-unique hairstyles was a thing they admitted to consider doing.
After 3 years, what we got were other races' hairstyles, and zero unique hairstyles.

3 - You don't lack for empathy but boy howdy you lack knowledge of the situation.

4 - "The difference is that if they ever introduce hats for my race, I'll be happy. Whining about them taking longer than I would have wanted doesn't contribute anything, and I'd rather be grateful for every step in the right direction than angry about it."
GEE, IT'S ALMOST AS IF YOUR RACE HAS A DIFFERENT HISTORY THAN OURS DOES :U

It's almost as if you didn't wait SILENTLY for three years, waiting for some sliver of attention, see it be delayed, and when it does show up it's a bloody disaster!
Oh I'm sorry miss, did we all forget collectively that it was YOUR race shouting like crazy in their streams for :crab: MALE VIERA :crab:?
That it's your race that's getting a lot of hairstyles?
That whenever the devs speak about the two races, they're super vocal about Viera and often even neglect mentioning Hrothgars at all?
That it's YOUR RACE that got a male counterpart before either of our races got any fix??

We have a right to be displeased with this, because unlike your race, ours got humiliating results.

Please educate yourself on the matter before coming into a thread about it: You didn't get humiliating results. You didn't have a dev show up and say "we didn't do it because it was too hard lol" and then bail. An answer that is both untrue (modders did it in under a week) and also unconvincing (they use Agile Development).

5 - "But that's up to each person I guess."
No, that's just you speaking out of your netherhole.

Even in businesses it's still in the general best interest to respect people who do their work. These people aren't soulless machines.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Even in businesses it's still in the general best interest to respect people who do their work. These people aren't soulless machines.

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And we did. And we do.

No one is sending death threats to the devs, no one is calling them crap.

We're just pointing the issues with their design and decisions, and when they prove to be inflexible, it's a source of frustration.

The issue hasn't been solved, only the bare minimum was done. And it's healthy to acknowledge that, otherwise what, you expect us to only accept the absolute bare every time? When other races get better stuff all the time?

You have several posts, from myself and others, theorizing on what obstacles they have and justifying why this situation is being so complicated, but one thing still remains under it all: the devs could, should and definitely did see these issues coming and did nothing to prevent them.

Respect can still be afforded even in the middle of frustration, it's not all whining. It's simply stating a truth, nothing more.
And the truth is specifically that the devs aren't paying this race its due respect. And that changing a boolean value isn't hard work. It's not, because that can be changed through third party tools in under a minute.

Also, I'd argue it goes both ways, but when the respect Square afforded us has been varying a lot between awkward and humiliating or dismissing, you can't complain that we're upset. Stop acting like we're attacking the devs when we're not.

"These people aren't soulless machines", of course they're not, no one's saying they are. But the issue stands that they made mistakes which are growing larger and larger and aren't being addressed at a fundamental level, and they really need to be.
And no matter how hard we tell them "guys, this is gonna get out of hand", they aren't doing anything.
And seeing people tell us to stop complaining, to just sit down and watch this situation grow worse and worse without any clear and defined plan, is distressing.

The bare minimum isn't a sign of a clear and defined plan. What is is them being transparent about the race and explain their plans in the long run and explain the obstacles they're facing in a concise and objective manner. Not just to safeguard them, to temper our own expectations (bc let's admit, some people here expect too much), and also to ensure we're all on the same page and don't have nasty surprises.

I think some bitterness is warranted when the topic is something that very very clearly should have never been rolled out. I am happy a fix came sooner than later but this should not have been a thing.

Fine whatever, it's useless to try to sway people from being bitter about things.

Like I totally get it, but I also feel it's kinda useless in this situation. There's still other issues that we still need to press them for to fix rather than continuing arguing over something they fixed over.

Maybe that's just me, maybe IM the crazy one here.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Even in businesses it's still in the general best interest to respect people who do their work. These people aren't soulless machines.

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I get where you're coming from, but it's not like we have anyone specific to criticize on the development side of these things. Like yeah there's Yoshi-P, but we know he can only have his hands in so much in regards to the development of XIV, considering he has other projects going on as well. I don't think anyone is screaming at developers who are only being told what to do by their managers and just following by SE's guidelines.

Of course, no one should be advocating to send death threats, insults, yelling at them, ect ect.. Developers can only do the job they're given. :V They can make suggestions or try to implement other changes, but in the end it's not up to them. But again, other than Yoshi-P, we don't have anyone specific to voice these complaints to - so we end up just saying SE/developers/ect to encompass it all.

And come on -- you and I know that SE/Yoshi P's statements towards player's criticisms have, at times, been incredibly dismissive and sometimes flat out ignoring concerns. To the playerbase that feels disrespectful and we get ticked off at that and sometimes it's just hard to be respectful when you know there's a chance they're not even going to take you seriously.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Fine whatever, it's useless to try to sway people from being bitter about things.

Like I totally get it, but I also feel it's kinda useless in this situation. There's still other issues that we still need to press them for to fix rather than continuing arguing over something they fixed over.

Maybe that's just me, maybe IM the crazy one here.

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It's useless to do a lot of things in the forums, but part of the forums is that it also serves as a place to rant/vent about something as specific as this to ye fellow users. Forums aren't exactly an alive medium nowadays, so it's good to have somewhere to go to just let frustrations out when you don't want to do it over in Discord/Reddit. Will they see and lodge our complaints here? Most likely not, but I don't think it's useless at all.

While the complaints can get very harsh and there is just some that are purely venting, there is some merit in having conversations to peers about *why* they feel like a feature is not working or is not enough. It helps people come together and not make them feel alone on an issue.

Well, regardless of how you guys feel about me, I'm happy you're getting the fix and I hope you get much more as the game progresses. Take care.

you guys act like literally any square enix employees even read whats posted on these forums.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

you guys act like literally any square enix employees even read whats posted on these forums.

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Yup. We're all talking to ourselves in here. Dont even know where the mods are, let alone devs. Look back to the ARR days, there was tons of personal communication between players and devs. Hell, there are posts where koji fox was answering peoples questions himself and keeping it real. Now? Ghost town.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

you guys act like literally any square enix employees even read whats posted on these forums.

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They must read something be it here or other venues they seemed fix the ears pretty quickly probably a lot faster than most expected.

We also got Male Viera and Female Hroths are on the way. I think they got the message Male Hrothgar weren't happy in the least.