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Originally Posted by myahele

I wonder if Nerva will be a Larsa-like figure? In Yotsuyu's short story, it was said that Titus lacked a "ready heir" so maybe that could imply that Nerva was too young at the time for any official duties?

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If Nerva is young, we can also see Gaius as Regent, training Nerva to take the throne.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Lyon is a man who prefers being straight on the battlefield and call any unwilling to step on it cowards. That means Nerva is either more of a cowardly politician who prefers doing the talk, or he's a pacifist who hates the constant wars and subjugating of others. Either one could get Lyon's ire, and it increases the chances that Nerva could be somebody worth talking to and making deals with. If he's a cowardly politician, we're basically going to knock on his door and force a deal on him, as he isn't going to cross the the one who beat down Zenos. If he's a pacifist, it's very likely he knows of the Scions and will be willing to call upon our help to quell the chaos in Garlemald and bring peace back to the region (and possibly the world). Either way, Nerva is likely to play a big role in Endwalker, and possibly beyond.

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Lyon has kind of grown on me as a character. I want to see him live from Bozja and return to make amends as the beastmaster trainer in a future expansion.

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Originally Posted by Kesey

Lyon has kind of grown on me as a character. I want to see him live from Bozja and return to make amends as the beastmaster trainer in a future expansion.

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I'm hoping that him, Sartauvoir, and Gabranth live to see another day after the Save the Queen questline. They're interesting characters that could make for some rather intriguing future frenemies. We'd have Gabranth as a showing of what the Scions/WoL could become if we took Utopia Justifies the Means seriously, and also as a good chessmaster considering how everything we've done so far in Save the Queen has gone according to his plans.

I'd also like to see Gabranth and some of his men survive. With everything set to happen in Endwalker, he'd be a good figure to gather survivors from all over Hydaelyn and found a new nation somewhere.

Between the Bozjans and Gabranth, I'd side with the latter each and every day of the week.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I'm hoping that him, Sartauvoir, and Gabranth live to see another day after the Save the Queen questline. They're interesting characters that could make for some rather intriguing future frenemies. We'd have Gabranth as a showing of what the Scions/WoL could become if we took Utopia Justifies the Means seriously, and also as a good chessmaster considering how everything we've done so far in Save the Queen has gone according to his plans.

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I also hope Gabranth lives to 6.0 tbh. He’s not even necessarily a bad person as far as we know. The info we have on him suggests he’s fighting for a good cause, we’re just allied with the bozjans so we can’t actually have our own options unfortunately but i would like to see him as a reoccurring character that possibly even shows up in the msq.

It'd also be refreshing to see at least one antagonist leader figure survive and walk a different path. Until FFXIV does something like that, it simply won't surpass the likes of FFXII and FFVII in my eyes. After all, Rufus Shinra proved so popular a character that not only did he survive the events of the original game, he was brought back for Advent Children and allowed to continue being President. He simply took his company in a different direction.

As it stands, it really feels as though many antagonists are killed off solely because the development team are too scared to ever kill off any of the major protagonists. So they get built up, are given far more depth than their opposition...and then sad music plays as they're cut down. It's all getting a bit repetitive, so I hope we get a bolder twist this time around.

I'm still hoping for the twist that not only do they survive, they force a treaty where Gabranth is given full control over Dalmasca Inferior (Lea Monde, Valnain, Golmore Jungle, and Grelic's Bend) as his nation. Simply because this gives him not only his own cities, it gives him access to trade with a port town, forests and cliffs to serve as defenses, and whatever else they decide to add to that part. Said port town may be one of the only ports in the region, forcing the other nations to have to do business with his country, forcing a supply line he controls, along with access to the rare and prized Valens red wine. This allows an economy to be made rather quickly, and forces some semblance of political talks with the neighboring countries (and forces the Scions to play nice).

Yes, I want his country to be made, and yes, I want to see just how things change due to it. There's a lot of ways we can go with the IVth Legion now, and I'm hoping it leads to some interesting world changes.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I'm hoping that him, Sartauvoir, and Gabranth live to see another day after the Save the Queen questline. They're interesting characters that could make for some rather intriguing future frenemies. We'd have Gabranth as a showing of what the Scions/WoL could become if we took Utopia Justifies the Means seriously, and also as a good chessmaster considering how everything we've done so far in Save the Queen has gone according to his plans.

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Did Sartauvoir survive the duel you get with him? I quite liked him as well, and not just because Thunderer accompanied his visits, but also because he fits the formidable pyromancer archetype, and he helped me get my Entropic Flame fix. In any case, Gabranth doesn't share many of the negative traits some of the other Legati do (Valens being the most obvious example), and putting aside the liberation movements simply wanting liberation so they can install their own regimes, I'd like to see him lead a nation that itself has a "frenemy" disposition to the main city states, even if Garlemald sees Nerva guided by Gaius (or something else) play out.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It'd also be refreshing to see at least one antagonist leader figure survive and walk a different path. Until FFXIV does something like that, it simply won't surpass the likes of FFXII and FFVII in my eyes. After all, Rufus Shinra proved so popular a character that not only did he survive the events of the original game, he was brought back for Advent Children and allowed to continue being President. He simply took his company in a different direction.

As it stands, it really feels as though many antagonists are killed off solely because the development team are too scared to ever kill off any of the major protagonists. So they get built up, are given far more depth than their opposition...and then sad music plays as they're cut down. It's all getting a bit repetitive, so I hope we get a bolder twist this time around.

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At least we're seeing something decent, along those lines, play out with the whole remembrance theme, and Emet narrating the 6.0 trailer... but I agree, I'd like to see something at a more mundane level as well.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I'm still hoping for the twist that not only do they survive, they force a treaty where Gabranth is given full control over Dalmasca Inferior (Lea Monde, Valnain, Golmore Jungle, and Grelic's Bend) as his nation. Simply because this gives him not only his own cities, it gives him access to trade with a port town, forests and cliffs to serve as defenses, and whatever else they decide to add to that part. Said port town may be one of the only ports in the region, forcing the other nations to have to do business with his country, forcing a supply line he controls, along with access to the rare and prized Valens red wine. This allows an economy to be made rather quickly, and forces some semblance of political talks with the neighboring countries (and forces the Scions to play nice).

Yes, I want his country to be made, and yes, I want to see just how things change due to it. There's a lot of ways we can go with the IVth Legion now, and I'm hoping it leads to some interesting world changes.

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Agreed. I'd like something like this, too. Something a bit like Archades, even if not quite an empire.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Did Sartauvoir survive the duel you get with him? I quite liked him as well, and not just because Thunderer accompanied his visits, but also because he fits the formidable pyromancer archetype, and he helped me get my Entropic Flame fix. In any case, Gabranth doesn't share many of the negative traits some of the other Legati do (Valens being the most obvious example), and putting aside the liberation movements simply wanting liberation so they can install their own regimes, I'd like to see him lead a nation that itself has a "frenemy" disposition to the main city states, even if Garlemald sees Nerva guided by Gaius (or something else) play out.

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Pretty sure he died from over exerting his body but its still kinda up in the air (Probably dead though he went up in flames). The only mage knight we know of dead, shame.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I'm still hoping for the twist that not only do they survive, they force a treaty where Gabranth is given full control over Dalmasca Inferior (Lea Monde, Valnain, Golmore Jungle, and Grelic's Bend) as his nation. Simply because this gives him not only his own cities, it gives him access to trade with a port town, forests and cliffs to serve as defenses, and whatever else they decide to add to that part. Said port town may be one of the only ports in the region, forcing the other nations to have to do business with his country, forcing a supply line he controls, along with access to the rare and prized Valens red wine. This allows an economy to be made rather quickly, and forces some semblance of political talks with the neighboring countries (and forces the Scions to play nice).

Yes, I want his country to be made, and yes, I want to see just how things change due to it. There's a lot of ways we can go with the IVth Legion now, and I'm hoping it leads to some interesting world changes.

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I don't think Gabranth is going to die yet, but I also don't think the storyline is going to wrap up yet. Probably will lead into the next weapons quest or some other sort of side content in 6.X.

Your hypothetical scenario doesn't really track very well to me though. The current situation doesn't have much to do with Lente's Tears, who are just another allied force to the Bozjan resistance and they've already bombed out the capitol of Dalmasca (Superior), so it's hard to imagine that their resistance cell will stop unless they're completely wiped out. Even assuming they did gain enough of a foothold in Dalmasca Inferior to establish a nation independent from Garlemald, they're still only a stone's throw away from what is essentially the world's premiere port city in Thavnair, so they are entirely avoidable if one wanted to trade with Hingashi or Yanxia; they would need intel from within Lente's Tears to know that the bottles of Valens Red even exists let alone where the cell hid the wine; and they're still an invading force trying to colonize a foreign land, so there's no need for any governmental body to treat with them unless they're trying to win their favor. They'll be in an especially precarious position past 6.0 once the Garlean capitol (and presumably their government) falls and it becomes clear they won't be receiving reinforcements at the same time that bodies such as Doma and the Eorzean alliance are no longer preoccupied with the main empire as a looming threat (although Eorzea will likely be too busy dealing with internal politics due to how much the ongoing conflict with Garlemald has influenced their governments).

Random thoughts after seeing a video (so forgive me if other things have been made obvious since then), but here were my initial thoughts:

Fordola will likely die as a redemption arc. It sounds like Arenvald is giving the "We arrived together, we'll leave together" dialogue - seeing as the two of them joined up at the end of Stormblood, so I'm just guessing Fordola is injured or dying after all this talk of 'heroes' and mentioning how 'at this rate, there'll be none left'. I can't see any of the city-state leaders dying and leaving a void. The only problem is -- Ala-Mhigo kinda has two -- Lyse and Raubhan -- and Lyse is part of 80 Monk class quest, so I really hope we aren't going to lose the one-armed wonder.

A lot of people suspect Alisae will die. I personally don't think that's the case -- but I will be absolutely heart broken if it happens. Giving her a new makeover just for the Endwalker trailer only to have her killed off would be very strange indeed. I assume the aether effects surrounding her are to do with the Scions obviously un-tempering people -- and it also sounds like Alphinaud's plan to turn the tide is to summon primals, seeing as tempering is no longer an issue. Alas, doing so means we would still need to defeat them afterwards, but it explains why we're fighting a lot of the classics. Either that, or the enemy do it instead to keep us busy.

It'd be really cool if Gabranth did manage to carve out his own kingdom in Dalmasca, but you have the problem that there is still a Dalmascan Princess hanging around, and she is leading a resistance. Only way to resolve that would be for Gabranth to marry her and agree to concessions to the resistance in how the new kingdom will be run, I think.

I don't think Fordola necessarily needs to be 'redeemed'. As a young girl, she saw her own people form a lynch mob and stone her father to death in the streets. That's what caused her to take the path in life that she did and work to better her people's position on her own terms.

Let's not forget that the Eorzean Alliance is the aggressor as of Stormblood where Doma and Ala Mhigo are concerned. They pushed Fordola into a corner as a consequence of that aggression and she lashed out as a result. She's already performed a number of favours for the Scions and Ala Mhigans that she had no obligation to do.

If they're going to kill someone off, let it be someone who lacks any grit or meaningful depth. Variety makes things interesting and every major and minor character that doesn't think and act the same way meeting a tragic end is getting pretty tiresome.

I also don't think fictional characters need to be raked through the coals just because they made a mistake or two at some point during their lives. Especially when it's always one sided - Merwlyb did horrible things, though she wasn't forced to go down the 'redemption through death' route. (A shame, really - that smirking Midlander during the last batch of MSQ's would get my vote for Limsa's new leader!)

The likes of FFVII would not be nearly as memorable or as popular if they took the route of killing and punishing the Turks, Reeve and Rufus for the shadier things that they did. The writers for FFXIV would do well to remember that.

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Originally Posted by RopeDrink

Random thoughts after seeing a video (so forgive me if other things have been made obvious since then), but here were my initial thoughts:

Fordola will likely die as a redemption arc. It sounds like Arenvald is giving the "We arrived together, we'll leave together" dialogue - seeing as the two of them joined up at the end of Stormblood, so I'm just guessing Fordola is injured or dying after all this talk of 'heroes' and mentioning how 'at this rate, there'll be none left'. I can't see any of the city-state leaders dying and leaving a void. The only problem is -- Ala-Mhigo kinda has two -- Lyse and Raubhan -- and Lyse is part of 80 Monk class quest, so I really hope we aren't going to lose the one-armed wonder.

A lot of people suspect Alisae will die. I personally don't think that's the case -- but I will be absolutely heart broken if it happens. Giving her a new makeover just for the Endwalker trailer only to have her killed off would be very strange indeed. I assume the aether effects surrounding her are to do with the Scions obviously un-tempering people -- and it also sounds like Alphinaud's plan to turn the tide is to summon primals, seeing as tempering is no longer an issue. Alas, doing so means we would still need to defeat them afterwards, but it explains why we're fighting a lot of the classics. Either that, or the enemy do it instead to keep us busy.

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Tbh idk why people would think Alisaie is gonna die? She’s in the endwalkers trailer with a whole new outfit lmao they aren’t gonna kill her off.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Tbh idk why people would think Alisaie is gonna die? She’s in the endwalkers trailer with a whole new outfit lmao they aren’t gonna kill her off.

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No idea, I haven't seen anyone claim that she's going to die myself but if there are people saying that it'd be weird.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

No idea, I haven't seen anyone claim that she's going to die myself but if there are people saying that it'd be weird.

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It wouldn't bother me if it happened, though I also don't see it happening. The only characters who die in this game are included in the following categories:

- Outright villains.
- Sympathetic antagonists.
- Throwaway characters that die as quickly as they are introduced. (For example, Tesleen).
- Throwaway characters that are reintroduced into the story again just to kill them off. (Meffrid, as an example.)
- Secondary characters of minor importance that are temporarily given focus but simply haven't spent as much time with the player character as the more prominent figures have. (Such as Haurchefant)
- Background characters who are semi-important but have largely been delegated to 'background existence'. (Papalymo, Louisoix)
- Formerly important characters that left the story for long stretches of time and/or already 'died' as far as many of us were led to believe. (Ardbert, Minfilia).

The likes of Y'shtola and Alisae do not fit in any of those categories and so it's a safe bet that they'll be fine as they always are. I don't mean to sound overly callous, but at what point do we take a step back and just note that there's consistent trends where it's very easy to guess who is perpetually safe and who is not? Don't get me wrong, I'd be pleasantly surprised if the story moved away from its 'consequences for thee but not for me' style that it adopted after 3.0 but there's been so many fake outs since that point and zero actual deaths of major characters on the level of Alisae, Alphinaud, Merlwyb, Nanamo, Y'shtola and Raubahn that I can't help but be baffled by such concerns.

Granted, I am hoping - perhaps foolishly - that Endwalker will be a pleasant surprise on that front and actually have some major stakes and losses that aren't entirely predictable...but we'll see.

If anyone is going to die in 5.5 my money would be on Arenvald for the following reasons:

• Minor enough not to cause outcry, but major enough for people to know who he is.
• A close tie with both Alphinaud and Fordola. We know Alphinaud is going to be working up to a big "character moment" as he's going to change class, so this would potentially spur him forward.
• He doesn't appear in the trailer at all, but we do hear him. This is... strange, and a little suspicious.
• They said they had trouble "cutting around the spoilers" for MSQ in this trailer, and his absence feels like they want his appearance to be a surprise.
• We see Alphinaud frustrated in the trailer at not being able to save someone (I don't think this is him, but it's definitely a theme), and he looks sad or apologetic toward an angry Fordola in the scene where she pushes him over. Maybe reaching a bit, but this scene would make perfect sense after his death/something happening to him.

Like I've said before, I personally am not the biggest fan of character death but in this case I could actually see it making sense to progress the plot (Alphinaud's character development, and also development for Fordola, who could possibly join us in Endwalker).

I thought Arenvald had deathflags since Stormblood. I'd rather he not die, but I would not be surprised if he did.

As for the Nerva topic. If he is young, I can see Gaius end up being his adviser/ right hand if they go that route. I wonder if Gaius was ordered to kill Nerva's older siblings assuming he had any? We know Gaius killed 9 "aspirants to the crown" and I guess it goes with the atonement-forgiveness theme.

I am guessing Arenvald dying would be the sort of thing that would move Fordola to shift her perspective. Not my preference (in terms of deaths), but I could see it happening.

Aren't Arenvald and Fordola both involved with the level 80 Summoner quest? I'm fairly confident that both of them have temporary plot armor because of that. I doubt they'll be dying before Endwalker.

EDIT: Having skipped over the trailer, I was not aware of this, but apparently Fordola is still wearing her slave collar from the short story. I wonder if that'll be a point of contention for any of the Scions, or if it'll go unnoticed. Source is here and here.

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Originally Posted by Turethir

If anyone is going to die in 5.5 my money would be on Arenvald for the following reasons:

• Minor enough not to cause outcry, but major enough for people to know who he is.
• A close tie with both Alphinaud and Fordola. We know Alphinaud is going to be working up to a big "character moment" as he's going to change class, so this would potentially spur him forward.
• He doesn't appear in the trailer at all, but we do hear him. This is... strange, and a little suspicious.
• They said they had trouble "cutting around the spoilers" for MSQ in this trailer, and his absence feels like they want his appearance to be a surprise.
• We see Alphinaud frustrated in the trailer at not being able to save someone (I don't think this is him, but it's definitely a theme), and he looks sad or apologetic toward an angry Fordola in the scene where she pushes him over. Maybe reaching a bit, but this scene would make perfect sense after his death/something happening to him.

Like I've said before, I personally am not the biggest fan of character death but in this case I could actually see it making sense to progress the plot (Alphinaud's character development, and also development for Fordola, who could possibly join us in Endwalker).

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I feel like you have something here. Fordola seems to be the last character to be added to the main cast for Endwalker (as Yoshi-p did hint a character will come into the story in 5.5 that will play a major role in Endwalker in a recent interview).

Arenvald is one of the good ones, but the major thing his character arc wanted was to liberate Ala Mhigo and he's accomplished that. He's fallen from prominence since Stormblood only popping up in the summoner quests to remind you he and Fordola are still there. But if Fordola has a bigger role to play, then sadly Arenvald hits all the major rules of character deaths: being meaningful, moving the plot, and forcing other characters to grow.

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Originally Posted by myahele

I thought Arenvald had deathflags since Stormblood. I'd rather he not die, but I would not be surprised if he did.

As for the Nerva topic. If he is young, I can see Gaius end up being his adviser/ right hand if they go that route. I wonder if Gaius was ordered to kill Nerva's older siblings assuming he had any? We know Gaius killed 9 "aspirants to the crown" and I guess it goes with the atonement-forgiveness theme.

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Well Sorrows of Werlyt is a Gaius redemption arc and a character growth moment to make a better father figure. Which plays into crowning a young Nerva and putting Gaius in the position of Regent as a future story arc.

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Originally Posted by Kesey

I feel like you have something here. Fordola seems to be the last character to be added to the main cast for Endwalker (as Yoshi-p did hint a character will come into the story in 5.5 that will play a major role in Endwalker in a recent interview).

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You're correct that he said that - more specifically:

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An important character that will play a crucial role in the Zodiark vs. Hydaelyn story will make its appearance.

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Source here.

I took that to mean someone with more direct involvement in that whole saga though (e.g. Venat), and there is also that mystery spectral figure in the trailer.

With that said, I agree with the rest of your post.

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

EDIT: Having skipped over the trailer, I was not aware of this, but apparently Fordola is still wearing her slave collar from the short story. I wonder if that'll be a point of contention for any of the Scions, or if it'll go unnoticed.

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Given that Ul'dah still allows slavery and nobody ever questions it, I'm guessing not.

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Originally Posted by Kesey

Well Sorrows of Werlyt is a Gaius redemption arc and a character growth moment to make a better father figure. Which plays into crowning a young Nerva and putting Gaius in the position of Regent as a future story arc.

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Idk if it’s as much of a redemption arc as it is showing how bad of a father he is lmao. But we’ll see.

I wouldn't call it a redemption arc until Gaius is forced to admit his failings extend beyond "I trusted an Ascian". Given that Diamond Weapon will be channeling Zenos, it may be an appropriate time to delve into just how badly he (Gaius) screwed up Ala Mhigo and how warped a person he became in the pursuit of his ideals. With some effort, it could tie neatly into the story as is. But then they also have to acknowledge the whole "Gaius's kids have been hunting for primals" thing, as well as the whole "Valens was a candidate for the XIVth Legion Legatus, but was overshadowed by Gaius and then worked under Nero on the Ultima Weapon without Gaius knowing" thing...

FF14 has a nasty habit of pushing back story development to the third act of its three act stories, and I worry they may have bitten off more than they can chew with Werlyt.

Although it could be Zenos (the three split red beam did remind me a bit of his Sword Art), Rhitatyn has been put forward as another viable candidate.

Personally I'm disinclined to read too much into things at the moment. It really seems like a contrived excuse to just have some big, flashy robot fights in-game and tying them to Garlemald happened to be the easiest way to do so. Gaius was quite obviously brought back due to the popularity he garnered back in 1.0 and 2.0, though he's now such a completely different character that many of his fans no longer care much for him.

The lack of any acknowledgement by either Gaius himself or the writers in regards to the soldiers he brought to Eorzea dying is just bizarre. They didn't need to introduce some random orphans - they could have easily have had the desperate survivors in the various Castrums across Eorzea band together to create and unleash the Weapons instead.

One could argue that he could have done more to bring stability to Ala Mhigo when he was stationed there but I'm inclined to think that, much like with Regula, there were saboteurs working against him.

Given that the leaders of the Eorzean Alliance also have a poor track record when it comes to forcing their will and opinions on others/being woefully incompetent at times...I'm pretty reluctant to single out Gaius for that.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Although it could be Zenos (the three split red beam did remind me a bit of his Sword Art), Rhitatyn has been put forward as another viable candidate.

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While Sapphire fits the helmet thing, I don't really see a certain similarity with the others, as they are simply close to their original FF VII design. Only Sapphire has this obvious change from the usual design.

Personally, while not quite resembling Zenos, Diamond's design gives me some real Shinryu vibes there.



(On another note, you always have such pretty art in your signature but never the artist, drives me little crazy! :D)

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

I wouldn't call it a redemption arc until Gaius is forced to admit his failings extend beyond "I trusted an Ascian". Given that Diamond Weapon will be channeling Zenos, it may be an appropriate time to delve into just how badly he (Gaius) screwed up Ala Mhigo and how warped a person he became in the pursuit of his ideals. With some effort, it could tie neatly into the story as is. But then they also have to acknowledge the whole "Gaius's kids have been hunting for primals" thing, as well as the whole "Valens was a candidate for the XIVth Legion Legatus, but was overshadowed by Gaius and then worked under Nero on the Ultima Weapon without Gaius knowing" thing...

FF14 has a nasty habit of pushing back story development to the third act of its three act stories, and I worry they may have bitten off more than they can chew with Werlyt.

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Ehhh don’t think it’s channeling Zenos. I thought it at first too however there are a lot of signs for it pointing otherwise, main sign being that the song we hear at the end of the trailer is p2 diamond weapons theme and it’s a remix of Rhitatyn and Livia’s battle theme. My guess is that it’s going to be a split boss between both of them given that the actual arena has 2 split platforms.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Ehhh don’t think it’s channeling Zenos. I thought it at first too however there are a lot of signs for it pointing otherwise, main sign being that the song we hear at the end of the trailer is p2 diamond weapons theme and it’s a remix of Rhitatyn and Livia’s battle theme. My guess is that it’s going to be a split boss between both of them given that the actual arena has 2 split platforms.

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Livia and Rhitatyn just use 'Steel Reason' as a battle theme, which has also been used for Nero and random solo duties against Garlean forces and also Grynewaht. So it's more of the generic Garlean Boss Theme than a special theme and not really a good lead.

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Originally Posted by RicaRuin

Livia and Rhitatyn just use 'Steel Reason' as a battle theme, which has also been used for Nero and random solo duties against Garlean forces and also Grynewaht. So it's more of the generic Garlean Boss Theme than a special theme and not really a good lead.

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Right but it’s literally never had anything to do with zenos whatsoever xD

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Right but it’s literally never had anything to do with zenos whatsoever xD

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I'm not shooting down the idea that it could be someone other than Zenos, I simply think Rhitatyn and Livia are too narrow-minded. Would be interesting to know whether the emulated minds are all required to be Legatus, at least that seemed to be the way it went so far...

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Originally Posted by RicaRuin

While Sapphire fits the helmet thing, I don't really see a certain similarity with the others, as they are simply close to their original FF VII design. Only Sapphire has this obvious change from the usual design.

Personally, while not quite resembling Zenos, Diamond's design gives me some real Shinryu vibes there.



(On another note, you always have such pretty art in your signature but never the artist, drives me little crazy! :D)

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I guess Shinryu would at least count as obedient by Valens's standards.

As for the art, it used to be due to sig length limits since I like combining them with quotes or lyrics/the fact that many of them put their name in the art itself, but fair point, I'll bear it in mind.

Just watch them add no oversoul at all because they described it as a capture mission and we may be dealing with it before oversoul is actually activated...

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Originally Posted by RicaRuin

I'm not shooting down the idea that it could be someone other than Zenos, I simply think Rhitatyn and Livia are too narrow-minded. Would be interesting to know whether the emulated minds are all required to be Legatus, at least that seemed to be the way it went so far...

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Well i think there is the possibility of it being a mix as well if he does decide to use zenos. He mentions that the zenos one is too wild, however who do we know that was extremely loyal? Rhitatyn. Perhaps they try to merge their qualities into one (probably wouldn’t go well though.)

Count me in for people who would rather Arenvald live, for all the reasons already stated but also because I simply don't want to world to be deprived of more of Joe Dempsie's stellar voice acting.

Plus, with Fordola back this is our chance to here Arenvald acting flustered around his crush with actual VA, we can't deprive the world of that, it would be a travesty.

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Originally Posted by RicaRuin

Just watch them add no oversoul at all because they described it as a capture mission and we may be dealing with it before oversoul is actually activated...

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Oversoul may be used as a last resort, but if driven to a wall, Valens WILL order it to be used, be it Alfonse in the cockpit or Valens himself in the cockpit. Valens would rather do everything he can to get back at Gaius. The only way Oversoul wouldn't be used is if the system is damaged, or if the scientist guy at Werlyt has a change of heart and sabotages it.

A Shinryu Oversoul doesn't seem likely to me, for two reasons. First, mentally it was just the embodiment of pure, destructive rage without any clever thought, incapable of reasoning or cunning. I'd imagine that Valens would want a warrior who can at least think, not a mindless beast... which is why he discarded Zenos in the first place. Second, Shinryu doesn't have hands. He wouldn't be able to operate the levers and buttons in the cockpit... assuming that Shinryu's size didn't explode the cockpit in the first place.

Someone in the comments of the twitter post mentioned a WoL Oversoul using data Aulus collected in Ala Mhigo. That'd be cool, but it doesn't work because 1. the Oversoul target would inherit the WoL's behavior and thinking, meaning that the Oversoul WoL would immediately join the real WoL against Valens. Unsuitable for the same reason Zenos was discarded: can't be controlled by Valens. 2. having the WoL act as a trial boss... how would that work? Would the WoL boss look different on each player's screen? It might have made sense for a solo duty, like the DRK 30-50 job questline solo duty, but I can't see it happening for a 8-man trial. The WoL being a different size depending on the race and size and armor of your WoL could also mean players have problems coordinating their positioning.

Varis is unlikely because he was a trial earlier in the ShB patch cycle.

Emet/Solus is possible... we've never fought against armored Emet like that before. I don't think it could be old bearded man Emet/Solus, though. In Cid's flashback in Bozja, old man Emet/Solus' model was just Varis with Ramuh's beard pasted on, so the devs are not going to reuse that model for closeups. So it'd have to be a brand new model, and if the devs knew that there was going to be an Emet/Solus Oversoul fight later on, I'm sure they would have created a proper model for old man Emet/Solus by then. So if it's Emet/Solus then he'd be younger, from when he was still conquering Illsabard and Othard. Did the technology built into Garlean armor to record people's brain waves even exist when Emet was still going about conquering? Seems like a rather recent invention to me.

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Originally Posted by MoofiaBossVal

Oversoul may be used as a last resort, but if driven to a wall, Valens WILL order it to be used, be it Alfonse in the cockpit or Valens himself in the cockpit. Valens would rather do everything he can to get back at Gaius. The only way Oversoul wouldn't be used is if the system is damaged, or if the scientist guy at Werlyt has a change of heart and sabotages it.

A Shinryu Oversoul doesn't seem likely to me, for two reasons. First, mentally it was just the embodiment of pure, destructive rage without any clever thought, incapable of reasoning or cunning. I'd imagine that Valens would want a warrior who can at least think, not a mindless beast... which is why he discarded Zenos in the first place. Second, Shinryu doesn't have hands. He wouldn't be able to operate the levers and buttons in the cockpit... assuming that Shinryu's size didn't explode the cockpit in the first place.

Someone in the comments of the twitter post mentioned a WoL Oversoul using data Aulus collected in Ala Mhigo. That'd be cool, but it doesn't work because 1. the Oversoul target would inherit the WoL's behavior and thinking, meaning that the Oversoul WoL would immediately join the real WoL against Valens. Unsuitable for the same reason Zenos was discarded: can't be controlled by Valens. 2. having the WoL act as a trial boss... how would that work? Would the WoL boss look different on each player's screen? It might have made sense for a solo duty, like the DRK 30-50 job questline solo duty, but I can't see it happening for a 8-man trial. The WoL being a different size depending on the race and size and armor of your WoL could also mean players have problems coordinating their positioning.

Varis is unlikely because he was a trial earlier in the ShB patch cycle.

Emet/Solus is possible... we've never fought against armored Emet like that before. I don't think it could be old bearded man Emet/Solus, though. In Cid's flashback in Bozja, old man Emet/Solus' model was just Varis with Ramuh's beard pasted on, so the devs are not going to reuse that model for closeups. So it'd have to be a brand new model, and if the devs knew that there was going to be an Emet/Solus Oversoul fight later on, I'm sure they would have created a proper model for old man Emet/Solus by then. So if it's Emet/Solus then he'd be younger, from when he was still conquering Illsabard and Othard. Did the technology built into Garlean armor to record people's brain waves even exist when Emet was still going about conquering? Seems like a rather recent invention to me.

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The oversoul is going to be Zenos data. I don't think this is a big secret as the 5.4 chapter ends clearly planning to use Zenos specifically.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

You're correct that he said that - more specifically:



Source here.

I took that to mean someone with more direct involvement in that whole saga though (e.g. Venat), and there is also that mystery spectral figure in the trailer.

With that said, I agree with the rest of your post.

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This is a good point. I took it the other way, the context of important plot point character is joining the team in the last patch for the duration of the coming expansion.

Very much in the vein of Lyse for Stormblood, Crystal Exarch for Shadowbringers, and Lady Iceheart/Estinien for Heavensward.

Fordola fits this bill, easily could transition to be adventuring with us and becoming a trust. Venat, although probably central to the plot, won't be "adventuring" with us.

But I think you may be correct.