parse for ps4 users !

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Originally Posted by Chif

Btw good player have parse already, they are not waiting SE to addit .

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and? thats a bit generalizing, not all good players play on pc, or have pc buddies. Please do get your fact straight as you make wiold assumptions that are not facts.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

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And what part of those examples involve parsers? None.

That would of happened with or without one, so your whole point is people are dicks? Yeah so what? That's nothing new. But depriving people of an incredibly useful tool because of those minority is selfish.

Those who abuse people now will abuse them regardless, and most of the time it's those poor players that are doing it. If nothing else you can use the parser to defend yourself and others.

If you actually stop your fearmongering for 1 min and take the time to look at anything the pro-parser crowd are saying you'd find the benefits greatly outweigh the negatives. And most of the negatives are happening now, even without a parser, so realistically nothing will change in regards to the abuse/harassment of other players. Which is still report-able!!!

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

Once a tool is put in people will use it, and they will infact exclude new players for not parsing high. Which is the last thing we need in DF. This games community is already becoming less and less new player friendly.

Just because some raiders don't care or parse df content, doesn't mean that is how the general community is.

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I like how you try to pass off your opinion as fact, it's laughable really.

The games community is slowly becoming less tolerant of BAD players, not adequate, not mediocre, BAD which is well within reason as these players are ruining the experience for everyone else. Maybe you should stop thinking so pathetically low of the community in general? 90% of people won't give a damn if you're parsing a little low, as long as content is getting done and you aren't making others work too hard to pick up your slack.

To turn your quote back on you: (and i'll even put it in bold for you)
Just because some people are jerks and abuse people doesn't mean that is how the general community is.

Honestly the more you post the more i get the feeling you're incredibly opinionated to the point you'll ignore everything else put in front of you because you think you're undeniably wrong.

I mean no offense by this, but that is just how you are coming off to me.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

Please do get your fact straight as you make wild assumptions that are not facts.

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Ermmm... ditto to you :p

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

@ sapphic i think your the only sane person in this thread as you present your side nicely.

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And this is why no one will take what you say seriously, with backhanded compliments such as this. I agree with MentheusDreyar's last point, there have been many well articulated points made by pro parsing players and the only thing you can say is they're all insane for not agreeing with you.

To start with and to remind. I am Pro Parser.

The only viable reason I can see for not adding an official parser yet is they would not be able to add it for the PS3, because, you know, limitations. Us Pc users have or have access to an unofficial parser, key word is unofficial. By adding one which would be PC and PS4 only it would segregate teh PS3 users from the rest.

Albeit, when they do add mod support as they promised, one of the first things, pretty much guaranteed, to be created for it will be a parser. So we will get one whether players want it or not.

Even so there won't be a stop on the ability to report douchbaggery, whether thats with a parser or not.

There isn't going to be a console developed parser that won't be outdone by a PC developed parser eventually. It will cause the problem of scaling difficulty, as now the assumptions will be made of the performance of people that have access to whichever parser is updated for the latest content and creeping features developed by the PC fanbase. This can be far away from anything SE develops officially, and end up putting console players back in the same boat.

Waiting answers from Yoshi-P. Support parse for ps4 pls .

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Originally Posted by Chif

Waiting answers from Yoshi-P. Support parse for ps4 pls .

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Then you're going to be waiting a very long time. The only people that have responded to threads like these have been GMs and moderators, and only then it's been to detail the legality of third party software.

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Originally Posted by Chif

Waiting answers from Yoshi-P. Support parse for ps4 pls .

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Why would he ever answer here. No one from SE will be would ever give a response in a thread like this. All this can possibly be is feedback. If they decide to add one, you will hear of it in a live letter or something like that.

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Originally Posted by Chif

Btw good player have parse already, they are not waiting SE to addit .

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No. Thats an unfounded generalization. Its true to say that some good players parse, and that some do not. Quite apart from anything rlse there are a lot of very good players on PS3/PS4 the very fact that console players were amoung those downing coil should be ample proof of that. The simple fact is that you do not need a parser to be good at this game, you simply need to know your skills and play regularly, and have the desire to do well.

I think it is actually quite insulting to claim that anyone needs a parser to be good (which is the logical conclusion of almost everything you've said). If you feel that need, to use a parser, that is your decision, but you don't get to decide that for me or anyone else. I'm actually pretty surprised that anyone thinks that a parser is neccessary to learn to play well. I can see that if there is a specificdpsche k in a specific piece of end game content, a parser is a tool that would help identify specific things that the team could do to improve their collective dps, but that is a specific circumstance. In general play, I don't think a parser will help any more than a training dummy.

Fundamentally you don't need a parser in order to improve your skills and performance, you simply need to learn your skills and practice by playing, most of allyou have to wantto do well. Players that want to do better do so without a parser. Players that don't, won't, whether there is a parser or not.

Honestly the idea that you can't be good without a parser reminds me of iPhone users who can't decide where to eat without askin Siri. In the end, a parser is just a tool, there is no substitute for actually learning your job.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Why would he ever answer here. No one from SE will be would ever give a response in a thread like this. All this can possibly be is feedback. If they decide to add one, you will hear of it in a live letter or something like that.

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Yep from live litter.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

There isn't going to be a console developed parser that won't be outdone by a PC developed parser eventually. It will cause the problem of scaling difficulty, as now the assumptions will be made of the performance of people that have access to whichever parser is updated for the latest content and creeping features developed by the PC fanbase. This can be far away from anything SE develops officially, and end up putting console players back in the same boat.

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While we might have superior tools within the parser for PC, such as real time telegraphing of data that happened during the fight, the core functionality which is essentially a glorified calculator will remain exactly the same which is all we really need in most cases for the general player base. Everything else is icing on the cake for the min/maxers and technical people. As long as the core functionality is updated nothing else really matters too much.

So i don't get what you mean by scaling difficulty? Might be the way you worded it for my sleep deprived brain :p

Assuming you mean scaling difficulty of new content based on parsers, no it won't SE will continue to design content based on their decisions as they have always done. AKA Lv + ilv and whatever they deem suitable as an average DPS for that combination. A parser won't affect that as they do their own internal testing and likely won't change their method from what they do now.

If i'm wrong please elaborate on that :p

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Quite apart from anything rlse there are a lot of very good players on PS3/PS4 the very fact that console players were amoung those downing coil should be ample proof of that. The simple fact is that you do not need a parser to be good at this game, you simply need to know your skills and play regularly, and have the desire to do well.

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You're failing to take into account that at least one person from of those teams was almost certainly parsing when the content was new :p given the odds virtually all statics have at least 1 PC player. Once the world firsts and those following within the month had come in and basically told everyone what to do chances are less, but generally statics do have one person parsing if one is available.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I'm actually pretty surprised that anyone thinks that a parser is neccessary to learn to play well. I can see that if there is a specificdpsche k in a specific piece of end game content, a parser is a tool that would help identify specific things that the team could do to improve their collective dps, but that is a specific circumstance. In general play, I don't think a parser will help any more than a training dummy.

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Not necessary no, but an indispensable tool to find out where you stand and help fine tune your level of play, don't forget where all the optimal rotations everyone uses come from, parsers :p and yes these rotations are considered "playing well"

Specific uses for only end game content? yeah.... try any kind of trial that has a form on DPS check when it's new, for example Bismark HM and EX for many players. Can't see where a parser is helpful there? or would you rather bang your head pointlessly against a wall with little progress rather than use a tool to help you find out whats wrong in detail?

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

In general play, I don't think a parser will help any more than a training dummy.

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Yes because all content that involves a DPS check is standing still hitting a dummy primal/<insert enemy of your choice> with no form of mechanics or need to move... :confused:

Hint that's sarcasm :p If you really believe that you are very naive or ignorant.

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Originally Posted by Chif

Yep from live litter.

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Well, it will most likey be a while for anything. I wouldn't be surprised if it was late 3 early 4 before we even heard anything. And thats if they decide to do something. Most likely more silence if not.

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Originally Posted by MentheusDreyar

Snip
If i'm wrong please elaborate on that :p

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What I'm saying is that in order to provide a lasting challenge to the min maxers, SE made content that was..problematic, as in its been breaking the audience it was designed for. Some believe it had to do with Lucrezia's fast performance on FCOB and not wanting a repeat.

In no way am i blaming the players, my concern is on SE's design of boss fights, which would change if player knowledge of fight statistics is now a factor. If said min/maxers are using methods that result in higher numbers, they are likely using strategies the rest of the playerbase is not using in their own content. So if someone wants to maintain interest in their meticulously designed raids, wouldn't they need to design fights that force said raiding strategies and resources upon non-raiders?

I get that people are saying that no one cares about the average dps doing his ex roulette, does his dps, and leaves without fanfare and comms. But thaere is nothing certain that this is going to last if parsers(and the critical discussion using them) get lifted. A DF when each run is as a race is going to be a lot more stressful an experience than what we have now.

actually I'm picking apart people aurguments with facts, and they can't factually say the things they do
1) assumpoing all good players parse or have a parse buddy
2) all ppl who down dontent is parsing in some or fasion
These are assumptions
as i stated it doesn't takew much fir people to want to exclude others, and some people do infact bitch people out for low numbers in df content. I Fc i was in, did just that.

Just because ot isn't as widespread at the moment doesn't mean it will happen. I seen people kicked for the most petty of reasons, I've been kicked for the most petty of reasons, I wouldn't put it past people to kick over parser data if one is adde, honestly people would do it now if parse wasn't a bannable offence.

Also people acting like you have to parse or fail in this game are nuts, I'm sorry if that is rude, but stating you need a parse to do any content its nuts. (and false)

idm debating, but going up to someone and say they are flat out wrong, or make assumptions they don't know what they talking about it a bit rude.

And again acting like having a parser is the second coming of jesus is just nuts. And yes a few people here are acting like that.

No one is depriving anyone anything all the info a parse gives you is visible to anyone just not in parse form.

And saying that people that do kick people out for playing poorly in their eyes, is a bit of an assumption.You can't factually say these people are the majority or minority. I was simply saying they do infact exist, and last thing id want or we need is the DF sysytem being used as the party finder system and excluding players, we already getting enough of that already we don't need to add more.

If I may ask, what is wrong about people bitching about low numbers in DF?

Clearly if dps was good they would have nothing to bitch about. They are doing it only because somebody is watching Neflix while cuddling their cat.

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Originally Posted by Archaell

If I may ask, what is wrong about people bitching about low numbers in DF?

Clearly if dps was good they would have nothing to bitch about. They are doing it only because somebody is watching Neflix while cuddling their cat.

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the assumption being that the accused is wrong. How does the player find out the liars? Would you have to make a thread in the forums? Report to a gm and hope "we were speedrunning" isn't a viable defense? Maybe the missed trick attack did justify whatever tongue lashing you received? Who can say?

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Originally Posted by Kallera

the assumption being that the accused is wrong. How does the player find out the liars? Would you have to make a thread in the forums?

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Look at it from this perspective:

When somebody is harassing you for low numbers you have several options to fix it. 1. Git gud or do your best if you are not being entirely focused. 2. Report them for harassment.

When somebody is willingly under-performing... you can't as easily fix it. Which means that you have to carry them through the content sweating your butt while doing their job - unless it is somebody extremely obvious or afking.

I would suggest a little experiment. Create 5 button macro and try to do few DF runs. During this time observe how many times you get called out and how many times you get kicked.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

actually I'm picking apart people aurguments with facts, and they can't factually say the things they do
1) assumpoing all good players parse or have a parse buddy
2) all ppl who down dontent is parsing in some or fasion
These are assumptions

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No idea who this post is direct at? im gonna assume me? Maybe snip some quotes :p anyway...

And you continue to prove my assumption in my previous comment to be correct...

First off, you are not arguing with facts you are arguing with YOUR assumptions. Unless you play big brother to every single player you can't prove that neither of things are untrue, and apart from a select few no one pro parser is arguing those points anyway, so your post reeks of desperation to attempt to defend your flawed logic from something people aren't even claiming in the first place. Hell i can't even remember you making one factual point in any of your previous posts, which seems to be a common flaw in arguments against parsers, all assumptions and NO facts. Because that's all you have vs the many pro-parser facts many have been presented throughout the different threads. That seemingly go ignored.

Yes people will bitch and moan, and they have a right too, hell i have people doing it almost 24/7 in my many linkshell's and guess what? No one is getting kicked. This includes me.

Let me clear something up, parsing isn't bannable, abusing other players with it is. Removing others holding back the group from completing content is NOT abuse, it is a group decision to remove someone stopping completion, you can say what you want, but as long as we have a justified reason we can remove people with or without a parser. Heck i've been completely open about using a parser and told a guy he isn't performing enough and we have to remove him, guess what? I'm still waiting for my ban :p Harassment and abuse is clear to see. Removing a problematic group member is justified and won't result in a ban. Which is probably about 95% of all vote kicks.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

Also people acting like you have to parse or fail in this game are nuts, I'm sorry if that is rude, but stating you need a parse to do any content its nuts. (and false)

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Are you actually reading this thread? or the many others? practically no one is claiming that!! Stop trying to take 1 or 2 people's comments way out of proportion to fuel your blatant fearmongering. All it's doing to making you look more like an idiot and less people are listening to you.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

No one is depriving anyone anything all the info a parse gives you is visible to anyone just not in parse form.

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Yes by all means track the individual DPS of each party member, their average DPS, crit rate, misses, healing output, incoming/outgoing damage from that non-intelligible spam fest that is the battle log, all while performing your job in any meaningful degree as well as fight mechanics. Seriously? Do you actually listen to your self? Unless you have a computer processor for a brain you won't even be able to calculate any meaningful DPS while you're performing it, let alone your parties. And yes DPS not "damage" the only relevant damage in the game is damage per second.

The data in the battle log is practically useless in any given situation where the data is relevant without a parser because you simply cannot mentally keep up with the calculations needed especially while performing other tasks. Period

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

and last thing id want or we need is the DF sysytem being used as the party finder system and excluding players, we already getting enough of that already we don't need to add more.

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Still sticking with the baseless fearmongering eh? Even though surveys and studies and have shown the exact opposite after the introduction of a parser? And that there is no correlation between harassment and parsers? And unlike your assumptions these are facts.

Honestly the more you post the more it appears you are very naive, ignorant or a troll, take your pick :p

After 2 years playing this game I've seen the behavior you keep describing ONCE OR TWICE, and the same goes for EVERY OTHER MMO i've played, the fact that you keep suggesting every single MMO you've ever played is a cesspool of toxicity leads me to only one conclusion. Ever considered you are actually the problem here? You're the only common factor to what is allegedly the problem with the "general community" in those games in your opinion when literally no one else is supporting your claims.

Either way at this point im not taking anything you say seriously anymore. Just endless baseless, ignorant fearmongering....

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Originally Posted by MentheusDreyar

You're failing to take into account that at least one person from of those teams was almost certainly

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Only 'almost'? So, you didn't talk to every team that downed turn 5 to tell if they used a parser? So, in that case, post proof or retract your claim.

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parsing when the content was new :p given the odds virtually all statics have at least 1 PC player. Once the world firsts and those following within the month had come in and basically told everyone what to do chances are less, but generally statics do have one person parsing if one is available.

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I see, it's pure assumption on your part? Oh, I wasn't talking about world or server first, just the act of clearing turn 5 before it went all duty finder on us.

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Not necessary no, but an indispensable tool to find out where you stand and help fine tune your level of play, don't forget where all the optimal rotations everyone uses come from, parsers :p and yes these rotations are considered "playing well"

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Optimal rotations come from theorycrafting and practice, it's kind of sad to me that the only way you seem to be able to believe players can develope skill and good skill rotations is to listen to a parser.

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Specific uses for only end game content? yeah.... try any kind of trial that has a form on DPS check when it's new, for example Bismark HM and EX for many players. Can't see where a parser is helpful there? or would you rather bang your head pointlessly against a wall with little progress rather than use a tool to help you find out whats wrong in detail?

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No offense, but I said; "I can see that if there is a specific dps check in a specific piece of end game content, a parser is a tool that would help identify specific things that the team could do to improve their collective dps, but that is a specific circumstance." Doesn't that say that I can see where people might find it useful? So what's your beef.

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Yes because all content that involves a DPS check is standing still hitting a dummy primal/<insert enemy of your choice> with no form of mechanics or need to move... :confused:

Hint that's sarcasm :p If you really believe that you are very naive or ignorant.

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No, really? Sarcasm? I never would have guessed, I'm so glad you told me, or else I might have taken offence at your implied insult of ignorance. But hey, I'll let it go fornow. Tell me something. If you parse the same fight twice with different players and jobs, does it look the same? Given the different parameters of each fight I don't see how it can. The point being that to prefect a rotation, you don't need to be dodging mechanics that interrupt combos or positionals. Frankly with all the movement and dodging yourperfect rotation isn't happening, you have to adapt tocircumstance, and that requires learning through experience. A parser won't teach you that. Learning a proper rotation doesn't require a parser either. Do you honestly believe otherwise?

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Learning a proper rotation doesn't require a parser either. Do you honestly believe otherwise?

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Proper rotations came from parsing. All these guides you read, all these video guides you watch, all these threads or posts on how to DPS, all of them have a root in parsing. Sure trial and error as well as experience come into play with these guides, but parsing is just as valuable as the aforementioned, since knowing when your abilities will do the highest amount of DPS is key against enrage/DPS checks. Also you mentioned theorycrafting earlier, which is all about numbers... which a parser is all about.

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Originally Posted by ShanaShirayuki

Proper rotations came from parsing. All these guides you read, all these video guides you watch, all these threads or posts on how to DPS, all of them have a root in parsing. Sure trial and error as well as experience come into play with these guides, but parsing is just as valuable as the aforementioned, since knowing when your abilities will do the highest amount of DPS is key against enrage/DPS checks. Also you mentioned theorycrafting earlier, which is all about numbers... which a parser is all about.

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Yeah, right. Instead of taking the information given in the skill descriptions, and using their experience during play, everyone who wrote a guide just closed their eyes and let the parser do it for them... It's honestly flabbergasting to me how many people put such stock in parsers that they can't imagine how to improve without one, so much so that they presume that anyone who is 'good' must have used a parser. I don't read guides BTW, I learn by experience and knowing the skills. Theorycrafting is about looking at the skills and working out how to use them best, when to use buffs, what circumstances to use a particular interrupt, and so on, yes it's a lot of numbers, so what, it's players using their intelligence to work out the best combinations of skills in different circumstances, not simply focusing on your parsed dps, or how you get that last 10th of a point.

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Originally Posted by ShanaShirayuki

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

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You two make me chuckle. ^^

Of course you don't need parser for creating rotations and stuff. Theorycrafting is just solid math and knowledge application.

I would say tho that for real combat situations parser combined with a video footage makes it hella easier to work on theorycraft... but theorycrafters are usually better players anyways so that's not really important.

We should focus more on our ice mages and petrified monks. Would players who sometimes don't even bother to read tooltips do math to calculate optimal rotations? I don't think so... nor they would read up guides about their class. In this regard parser doesn't work as much as tool for theorycrafting, but more like motivator to actually read up about their job. Nothing motivates you as much as seeing how much you suck... and also the fear of being "harassed".

But parsing is one of the many things used in theorycrafting, which in turn is used in all these guides the Anti Parsing crowd keep referring to. Also, I don't take much stock in someone who doesn't even have a level 60 DPS, much less a combat class, advice on improvement.

Yeah you don't need parsers for rotations, you can just math out potency per second for that. But how well you can apply the rotation in a real situations needs a parser, and parsers are still pretty handy as a testing tool for rotation theorycrafting. Not necessary, but very handy.

Worth noting however that stat weights take parsing data and simulators to figure out. No parsers = no stat weights.

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Originally Posted by ShanaShirayuki

But parsing is one of the many things used in theorycrafting, which in turn is used in all these guides the Anti Parsing crowd keep referring to. Also, I don't take much stock in someone who doesn't even have a level 60 DPS, much less a combat class, advice on improvement.

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Ah, excellent, belittle your opponent, what a productive and helpful strategy. You dont need a level 60 dps class to understand improvement. Apparently in ARR, the level cap was 50, so by your logic no one then was allowed an opinion about improvement? That would have been a shock tothose completing coil on a console.

Oh, by the way, the only times I have refered to a guide in anypost was replying to a parser advocate claiming that guides onleexist because of parsers. Look, if you and anyone else wants to continueto push a line that essentially says you are no good if you don't use a parser, or you can't improve without one, go right aheaf, just don't be surprised when players who don't parse get annoyed. Go ahead and use your crutch, just don't hit anyone over the head with it.

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Originally Posted by Archaell

We should focus more on our ice mages and petrified monks. Would players who sometimes don't even bother to read tooltips do math to calculate optimal rotations? I don't think so... nor they would read up guides about their class. In this regard parser doesn't work as much as tool for theorycrafting, but more like motivator to actually read up about their job. Nothing motivates you as much as seeing how much you suck... and also the fear of being "harassed".

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Would players who sometimes don't even bother to read tooltips listen to advice on improvement from someone brandishing parser numbers? I think not, sad as it is, players who won't read about their skills are unlikely to care enough about things to improve.

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Originally Posted by ShanaShirayuki

snip

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Thats assumption theory crafting has been in rpg since before the internet. And which person you are refering to? Parser help all classes out from dps to healing to tanking or so people claim.

@ malevicton

again that has been done well before the internet so you can't state that is factually true.

please you guys sound rediculous, you guys come off and act like parser are the end all be all and act like gaming and rpg didn't exist befor parser. Even table top rpg players therory craft.

In most cases herer people mix up "learning to play" with "learning the content" none of which needs a parser, and just requires practice. Which you don't even need to see numbers to. Just playing, reacting, adapting gets content beat which all you need is the mobs hp bar up SE even added the % so you can figure out what % mobs do their moves.



@ ac
I just want to point out that most ice mages or petrified monks are just trolls getting under your skin. More so if they claim its RP reasons.

@ thread

Like I keep saying it is ignorant to assume that when you give people tools they won't use them. And players would infact harasse over numbers if it wasn't bannable, but using a parser is bannable. Whats stop anyone in this thread reporting any person for parser use from anyone of the parser crowd, And you can't factually claim "i use a parser but i don't care about df, so one no does." When i had years of experience with people giving a dam.

Its not fear mongering to know that this would happen, nor ignorance. Its actually ignoent to clainm it wouldn't happen. People did it in WoW often. I can't rell you how much content shouts i saw with must parse 1200 or some stuff. Some guilds even required you to parse at least 1100 before you joined them.

Hell of alot worst in Aion though, but similar happen in dcuo once a official parser was released, but that was more over mic then anything.

the only thing thats really ignorent is claiming parser are the cause of everything, when gaming has been around before the internet.

unless this was a pc only game, none of your arguments hold water. Mostly because your acting like people on pc are the best players due to having access to parser.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

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I am going to ignore the ridiculous part of your post - as somebody else will be more than happy to get through it - and ask you a simple question.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

People did it in WoW often. I can't rell you how much content shouts i saw with must parse 1200 or some stuff. Some guilds even required you to parse at least 1100 before you joined them.

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Do you consider this to be harassment?

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

Its not fear mongering to know that this would happen, nor ignorance. Its actually ignoent to clainm it wouldn't happen. People did it in WoW often. I can't rell you how much content shouts i saw with must parse 1200 or some stuff. Some guilds even required you to parse at least 1100 before you joined them.

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A few things:

Most FC's in private that do serious endgame will request a parse. This is to test the player and make sure they at least understand the basics of their own rotation - but this is often for serious raiding free companies.


There is little to no difference between "Must be able to parse X" and "Must be able to clear Y." The only difference I see is that someone might get carried through a clear on "Must be able to clear Y" because they know the mechanics but not their own role and how to optimize it (I've had BLM's doing 600 DPS on A1S who has the earrings drops. That bad. We almost cleared because we had two WAR's decked with STR gear but came up short.)

Using a parser is a gameplay style and should not be considered a negative thing.
Using a parser to harass is a choice of trolls and should not be tolerated.
Players who harass should not be the determinant on the rest of the game. That is punishing the majority for the sake of preventing the minority.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

@ thread
Like I keep saying it is ignorant to assume that when you give people tools they won't use them. And players would infact harasse over numbers if it wasn't bannable, but using a parser is bannable. Whats stop anyone in this thread reporting any person for parser use from anyone of the parser crowd, And you can't factually claim "i use a parser but i don't care about df, so one no does." When i had years of experience with people giving a dam.
Hell of alot worst in Aion though, but similar happen in dcuo once a official parser was released, but that was more over mic then anything.

the only thing thats really ignorent is claiming parser are the cause of everything, when gaming has been around before the internet.

unless this was a pc only game, none of your arguments hold water. Mostly because your acting like people on pc are the best players due to having access to parser.

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Stop harassment pls .

Just reading this forum should give one an idea why a parser might support antisocial behavior.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

@ thread

Like I keep saying it is ignorant to assume that when you give people tools they won't use them.

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And it's ignorant of you to assume everyone will misuse that tool just because the possibility exists. Again baseless fearmongering.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

And players would infact harasse over numbers if it wasn't bannable, but using a parser is bannable. Whats stop anyone in this thread reporting any person for parser use from anyone of the parser crowd, And you can't factually claim "i use a parser but i don't care about df, so one no does." When i had years of experience with people giving a dam.

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There we go again, trying to state your assumptions are fact.

And i'll say it once again to drill it into your ignorant head, parser's are NOT a ban-able offense, targeting and abusing players with the data is, go ahead and report us for using one, nothing will happen without proving we are legitimately harassing other players with it. Otherwise based on your "logic" and i use that term extremely loosely, all the world first teams would have been banned long ago.

Now i've played all these MMO's you keep drawing your "experience" from, and i can say i very rarely encountered the kind of behavior you seem to be convinced will happen all the time. From an outside perspective those who cause the problems are far more likely to encounter them. Think on that for a minute :p

All your "experience" is, is a biased POV. Experience holds no weight without being able to back it up with facts and data.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

Its not fear mongering to know that this would happen, nor ignorance. Its actually ignoent to clainm it wouldn't happen. People did it in WoW often. I can't rell you how much content shouts i saw with must parse 1200 or some stuff. Some guilds even required you to parse at least 1100 before you joined them.

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Again, trying to say your assumptions are facts, a perfect display of ignorance. No one is claiming people won't abuse it, but it will mostly be the people who are currently abusing others that do so. So ultimately nothing will really change in that regard. Not to mention people in general in this community can't take the tiniest bit of criticism without calling it harassment, which it plain isn't. And trust me, a large amount of "harassment" in this game is actually taking criticism way out of proportion and only they see it as harassment.

I haven't even heard of someone getting banned for using parser data to help someone, hell i do it all the time, as it's clear from anyone with an ounce of common sense that it's not abuse of a parser. I'm still waiting on my ban from SE :p

The "abuse" and "harassment" is a biased POV of the person under criticism.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

Hell of alot worst in Aion though, but similar happen in dcuo once a official parser was released, but that was more over mic then anything.

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Encountered almost zero harassment and abuse in Aion and DCUO, only those who actually deserved it. So i'd call your "experience" biased at best. Personal experience doesn't hold any weight in an argument unless you can back it up with actual factual data.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

the only thing thats really ignorent is claiming parser are the cause of everything,

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Wait so you're admitting you are ignorant? Because that statement as basically a summary of your entire argument right there :p , you suddenly go from "parser causes all toxicity in games they shouldn't be in" to admitting it's ignorant to think they do? If you're gonna troll at least keep your story straight...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

Mostly because your acting like people on pc are the best players due to having access to parser.

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No one is saying this? What baseless assumption are you working off now? Seriously, i'm starting to think you really are a troll as i can't actually believe someone can be this ignorant.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Players who harass should not be the determinant on the rest of the game. That is punishing the majority for the sake of preventing the minority.

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Which sadly no one seems to be able to understand.

@ drayer
Parser is a third party tool, third party tools are against the ToS. Parser use is currently Under a Don't ASK, Don't TELL.

Anyone one person here can be reported on for third party tool use if they claim to use a parser. Which yes its a bannable offence.
The fact you say that alone Its not, is funny when infact it is.

And i read all your posts in full, you come off like parser did everthing in this game from, factoring the best players, best combos, stat waights. This being on ps3 and ps4 prevents that from being factually true, if this was pc only then that would hold water.

Was what I said suppose to represent harrassment? nope just exclusion. Which is what I was presenting I don't think any of my posts said anything about harrassment.
I don't want a ingame parser to give the community tools, use it in DF content and exclude players, more so new players from getting things done. Which will happen. That isn't fear mongering, nor is it baseless. Its basic human nature.

If you give people the tools and the numbers They will use it to judge players and exclude players in PF (non-issue) and DF (the issue). This game is already starting to have a less new player friendly community, adding an ingame parser would make it more so. And you can't report it as it falls under the "Difference in playstyle".

And no I'm not trolling, nor fear mongering just don't want to see the DF system to become some exclusive club. And not having a parser isn't punishing anyone.
And please stop using terms minority and majority as these terms have no facts either way in any case or point of view.

And your posts do come off that having a parser is make or break, that not having one is bad. The only thing i see from the parser argument is you guys don't like the anti-parser views and believe the only reason we don't want one is so people see our "shoddy dps numbers". Which isn't true at least for me.

You also believe one can't improve with out a parser, which again isn't factually true.

I have yet to see anything resembaling a fact, just conjecture.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

...

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Exclusion is it then. That's great it feels a lil bit like progress.

Have you ever thought that exclusion can be used to protect people?

Let me give you few examples that might infuriate some of the anti-parsers. Would you say that it is bad when there are female only FCs? Which are made to protect their members from harassment? Or mature FCs that are there to avoid irresponsibility of younger players?

Well the same applies to FCs who would want to invite only players of specific skill. If you can't do your part in fights it might create toxic environment and so this requirement prevents that.

Now for the DF. Can parser be used to protect players in DF? Absolutely. It can protect hard trying players from the Netflixers of Slackerdom.

Just today I could have used parser on several occasions, and I mean the other person having parser - not me. I got several way too undergeared players in my groups that if they were not there nothing much would change. I am not that type of person to kick them from group, but if they saw how pitiful their contribution was, maybe they would consider at least visiting local market board to gear up.

Here is the main thing the people who fear parsers are totally ignoring - when you join a group you are supposed to meaningfully contribute. If you can't do that then you do not deserve to be there. It's that simple. Yet right now there is no way to protect players that try they best from these exploiters who do not care. Parser isn't going to fix this on its own of course and here is where your exclusion comes from. If you are not willing to pull your weight then you get called out first and if you continue doing this kind of harmful behaviour you are going to be kicked. To protect the rest of the group. Simple.

You fear that new players might be excluded... well yes they might be. They might be excluded from content that they are not prepared to clear (be it gear, or be it skill). If you are not good enough to do something, then you should never ever expect others to carry you through it. You are basicaly imposing your work loadout on strangers without giving anything in return. Would you expect strangers to do your job for you and for free? No. Because it is immoral. Yet not many players in-game care when it comes to carrying...

So yeah. If it were not for all the bad/slacking players, maybe parser would not be as much supported.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

@ drayer
Parser is a third party tool, third party tools are against the ToS. Parser use is currently Under a Don't ASK, Don't TELL.

Anyone one person here can be reported on for third party tool use if they claim to use a parser. Which yes its a bannable offence.
The fact you say that alone Its not, is funny when infact it is.

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Did i say they aren't against ToS? NO. The only reason that rule is in place is because SE is a software company and they have to have the grounds to protect their products in the event they deem it necessary. But the actual rule itself is not really enforced in any way other than when abuse of the tool comes into play. Which is my whole point. As long as you aren't using it to abuse other players SE don't really care as long as you aren't borderline advertising them. Otherwise i'd have been banned a long time ago...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

And i read all your posts in full, you come off like parser did everthing in this game from, factoring the best players, best combos, stat waights. This being on ps3 and ps4 prevents that, if this was pc only then that would hold water.

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And you come off like a brick wall of ignorance? So what's your point? Oh look more assumptions :p

The FACT is parsers were used to calculate the best and optimal rotations and stat weights, the fact you think they weren't is incredibly naive and show's your lack of knowledge in this area so stop trying to argue otherwise.
No one is saying parsers are responsible for ALL of the best players, but most definitely the high end world first type of best players and most certainly the majority because in one way or another they are using data gathered from a parser.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

If you give people the tools and the numbers They will use it to judge players and exclude players in PF (non-issue) and DF (the issue). This game is already starting to have a less new player friendly community

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Again, baseless assumptions. And the game is just as unfriendly towards new player's as any other game online. That's nothing new.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

And not having a parser isn't punishing anyone. And please stop using terms minority and majority as these terms have no facts either way in any case or point of view.

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It's punishing those on console that want to benefit from the tool but have no way of running 3rd party programs. You want to remove options for other players because of a minority of bad apples? You don't see how incredibly stupid that is? Quit being so selfish because of your baseless assumptions of other people and fearmongering of parsers.

The majority/minority argument holds more weight than your baseless assumptions that have generally been proven wrong throughout every parser topic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

The only thing i see from the parser argument is you guys don't like the anti-parser views

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Because over and over again your views have been proven to be baseless, misinformed, ignorant and just plain stupid and wrong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

and believe the only reason we don't want one is so people see our "shoddy dps numbers".

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Well the more outlandish and stupid replies we get to defend against having a parser, more and more this seems like an accurate statement.

And because no one anti-parser has answered any of the important question's we've asked them and have purposefully ignored them over and over, i'd say for the majority it's probably true.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

You also believe one can't improve with out a parser, which again isn't factually true

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Not saying you can't, the whole point is that a parser gives you the information you need in a more attractive and easier to understand layout than what the game provides. Why would you not use it? It's clearly a convenient and superior tool for helping you assess yourself and others performance and look for ways to improve.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

I have yet to see anything resembaling a fact, just conjecture.

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So basically you haven't read any of the pro parser points in any thread within the forum then?

Honestly I'm done, because you clearly don't bother taking in anything other people are saying... I'm not wasting any more time banging my head on a brick wall getting you to listen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Archaell

Snip.

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+1

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

You also believe one can't improve with out a parser, which again isn't factually true.

I have yet to see anything resembaling a fact, just conjecture.

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Name one thing in this world and I really mean it, name one thing that people do that is performance related that improves upon something that have no comparable metric to go by, a DPS parser is a metric to go by, every improvement is measured against something and you need to know exactly what that measure is.

Every performance related activity has a metric to compare against, this is how every one improves, quick example Olympic athletes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by raelgun

Name one thing in this world and I really mean it, name one thing that people do that is performance related that improves upon something that have no comparable metric to go by

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Building something. The elements are comparable; the blueprint is the dungeon, the build quality is in completing the dungeon or beating the boss, inspection is in the victory. If the everyone does their job that's the end of it and the inspector gives a parting wave, that is to say loot is awarded and everyone jumps in the portal. This is the case of near every dungeon I've run, there were no obvious slackards and the dungeon finished without consequence. I've had fast runs and slow runs and really slow runs but a bad run is a rare occurrence.

Ok
So I think this whole thing went off topic.

Think the OP was asking for ps4 parser.

Not Are you guys for or against parsers.

No you will never get a parser for ps4 for this game, SE doesn't have one for PC so they aren't going to give one to ps4.
Simple. Done.


PS. As for pro or con for parsers. TBH no one gives a crap about your opinion here, for or against.
Why, because you cant change anyone's mind about anything here.
This isn't a debate forum for intelligent conversation.
Its just a place for people to scream their opinion at each other.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Building something. The elements are comparable; the blueprint is the dungeon, the build quality is in completing the dungeon or beating the boss, inspection is in the victory. If the everyone does their job that's the end of it and the inspector gives a parting wave, that is to say loot is awarded and everyone jumps in the portal. This is the case of near every dungeon I've run, there were no obvious slackards and the dungeon finished without consequence. I've had fast runs and slow runs and really slow runs but a bad run is a rare occurrence.

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So when a DPS check isn't being met, how do you know who's getting in the way of a clear? After four+ wipes at exactly the same DPS check phase of the fight, how can you pinpoint the problem? Wouldn't you like to know why a DPS check isn't being met and deal with the problem, rather than disbanding the entire group?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kingatlas

Ok
So I think this whole thing went off topic.

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It was off-topic before it even started. Chif's opening post was a rather ignorant statement that PS4 players should get a parser cause 'all' PC players have one, which isn't true in the slightest. I played on PC for all of my time in 1.0 and much of the Beta and not once looked up much less used a parser. I kind of like my PC as virus free as I can keep it, one of the biggest issues of third party software use and one alot of players, PC or not, are wary of (it's because of this vulnerability of PCs that Square implemented a security token in XI and maintained it's presence since). But that doesn't seem to matter to Chif, his assertion is that 'all' good players use parsers and the PS4 'needs' one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Odett

So when a DPS check isn't being met, how do you know who's getting in the way of a clear?

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I haven't been in many groups where a 'DPS check' not being met was the result of someone slacking. I was in some of the early Alexander runs and there were a few where we wiped to Self Destruct, but it wasn't because of slacking. At least, not outright slacking. Sometimes one DD would be left with two spiders while the other DD on that particular boss just kept wailing on the boss, causing that one DD observing mechanics to get Mini'd. Or the one holding the spiders would receive the blessing of RNGesus and get bombed while trying to kill the spiders. Generally, shit happens and you have to look at the fight from more than just the angle of the 'DPS check'. I, personally, never give up on a fight until everyone gives up and by that time, well, everyone's given up so there's no point pointing fingers at anyone.