Bard - they broke my job

i am practic in dummy and my dps better without WM. +60 dps. i think autoattack make work

Well, I seem to like keeping WM off, as to me, personally the cast time vs the damage boost is not worth it, some of the instance require tons of movement, and cast times are just way to long.. imo. I would rather make sure im not in stuff and still able to get a weaker shot off vs, taking a hit or never getting a shot off cause once I get out and start to cast, I got to move again and never getting any shot off..

I personally like the mobility of the bard.

I don't know, with WM for me just feels sluggish, and not very well thought out. but that's my gut feel. been 60 for a while now, farming Tombs of Law, I rarely use it, maybe at the start of a fight, but I really don't see a boost in numbers to justify the new song..

just my .02

well as fas as WM is concerned right now keep it on for the starting burst then turn it off that right now should be the best way. in first seconds of the fight u most likley wont have to move anyways

hi guys, i just reached lvl 50 with my bards, and i've seen that lvl 60 bards are useless as fuck, is that right ? should i just lvl an other job ?

( ps : i want to be competitve in raid, and i feel like playing bard is not gonna be possible..)

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Originally Posted by xClaves

hi guys, i just reached lvl 50 with my bards, and i've seen that lvl 60 bards are useless as fuck, is that right ? should i just lvl an other job ?

( ps : i want to be competitve in raid, and i feel like playing bard is not gonna be possible..)

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GG for picking support dps when u want to be competitive. Bard in raid of equal skilled players will always be at bottom in a typical fight.

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Originally Posted by xClaves

hi guys, i just reached lvl 50 with my bards, and i've seen that lvl 60 bards are useless as fuck, is that right ? should i just lvl an other job ?

( ps : i want to be competitve in raid, and i feel like playing bard is not gonna be possible..)

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Roll a MNK and you're good to go till the world ends.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

GG for picking support dps when u want to be competitive. Bard in raid of equal skilled players will always be at bottom in a typical fight.

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okey so bards are just range minions ? and i should lvl smthin else ? weird class balance xD

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Originally Posted by FateAudax

Roll a MNK and you're good to go till the world ends.

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i'm a distance class player, so probably not ^^

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Originally Posted by xClaves

i'm a distance class player, so probably not ^^

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Reroll summoner. You wont have good dps without a bard in the party though. Funny huh...

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

Reroll summoner. You wont have good dps without a bard in the party though. Funny huh...

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xD yeah funny.. is blm doing well too ?

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Originally Posted by xClaves

xD yeah funny.. is blm doing well too ?

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Blm is currently the hardest job to play atm. Many blms are rerolling to summoner.

Regardless of using WM at just the start of the fight bards are now Gimped. Every other class got a significant DPS boost that didn't change the core of how the class was played. The problem is even if we keep WM up we're no where near the rest of the DPS classes. I know bard isn't meant to be top DPS but they're so bad right now people are actually refusing to take bards into DPS checks like Bismarck EX. I have a few questions for SE.

1) Why kill bard's mobility?
2) WHY remove our auto attack potential in both the Barage nerf and WM?
3) Why does Bard damage scale so poorly with new gear?

A few things I can think to fix it. If they really want us as a turret they need to buff several things. Make WM an instant cast, allow it to have auto attacks again and buff the damage bonus of WM to at least 30%. The auto attack addition is the biggest thing they need to put back.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

Blm is currently the hardest job to play atm. Many blms are rerolling to summoner.

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I would prefer Bard just being hard, not sucking ass. Lucky BLMs.

Dev's are aware of the issues people have with WM and WP. (What a suprise)

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...45#post3089145

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Originally Posted by SasakiNori

Dev's are aware of the issues people have with WM and WP. (What a suprise)

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...45#post3089145

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bloodletter got fixed my friend said

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Originally Posted by xClaves

xD yeah funny.. is blm doing well too ?

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It's got some damn heavy wrinkles post-expansion just like Bard. I'd say given a few patches things might iron out well, but even still Summoner got ripped with HW. So you can't go wrong there.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

Blm is currently the hardest job to play atm. Many blms are rerolling to summoner.

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hard because the rotation is too hard ? and deal the same amount of damage like smn ?

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

bloodletter got fixed my friend said

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Yup, it did.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

snip -

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wow at least a tiny step up a big big mountain of crap ^^

so here is the what the dev post says basicly:
Wanderer's Minuet:
Development team is aware of the following:
Generally, DPS is larger when not under Minuet.
Bards' specialty of "Ability to attack while moving" is impacted when under Minuet, hard to see benefits of being in Minuet.
Unwieldy to change stances.

Due to the degree to which the above points are felt by the community, especially the first point (Less damage in Minuet), the development team is looking into changes.

They're looking to change the effect (but not increase damage too much), make it easier to switch between stances, and reduce the difficulty and general clunkiness with the current Bard.

Warden's Paean:
Generally treated as hard to use/low value, development team is looking into it.

Bloodletter Bug:
Fixed in hotfix.

Also a bit about waiting for player feedback from Alexander before committing any further changes

Black Mage changes when/where?

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Originally Posted by xClaves

hard because the rotation is too hard ? and deal the same amount of damage like smn ?

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Rotation is becoming such an obsolete word these days....anyways blms have to maintain enohian and astral fire/umbral ice. it looks absolutely head wrecking. Yh smn OP atm , go jump ship.

I have been using the normal opening rotation with the song which hits like 900+ on a parser, then after like 3mins of doing the rotation, it just seems the numbers just drop down to around 800 which seems to be a average without the song anyways. I think they just need to make it so it increases our dmg by a bit more than 20% or something.

So on a training dummy Minuet does more damage than 2.x attack style. but i spent alot of time at I179 the past few days in ex primals and dungeons.

I dont have a screenshot to show, but basically I was 30-40 dps higher without minuet.
this was in bismark and ravana and also in dungeons..

basically, i wont use minuet at all until they fix it, and i'll still pull my weight for the party.

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Originally Posted by SonTensei

snip-

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i use it as an opener with barrage,buffs and EA then turn it off its no time waste and its a good starting burst i dont think anyone would deny that

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Originally Posted by yamochan

i use it as an opener with barrage,buffs and EA then turn it off its no time waste and its a good starting burst i dont think anyone would deny that

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on bismark ex its not worth it because you need to save your Cd's for the carapice.

Step in the right direction, really glad to get official word on Bard's current situation, seems like they're willing to fix it pretty quickly, we'll see though.

From the translation it seems like they're willing to fix some of the issues that he states pre-alex/savage but after that they want to see how the raid plays out before touching it any further. Understandable, hopefully it is that soon and not all after alex/savage.

@pana well conserdering the fact that right bard has go all out to keep up with the rest it will be interesting if we are even needed for the raid. i dont feel like letting me carry in raids so i probably wont be playing bard by then but yeah lets first see what changes are coming before bismark

@son ok then bismark may be an exeption

While it is good they acknowledge there is a problem with the class, they were no where near detailed enough in their proposed solution description and they seemed reluctant on the main issue which is while under WM the serious lack of increased DPS is a big problem. It is why so many groups for hard content refuse to bring along a bard or machinist because our DPS is overly limited a lot by the lackluster skills from HW like WM and our low WD which is poor compared to most other DPS class skill sets and other classes WD.

I think secretly SE wants to put people off playing ranged physical DPS as a role and their attempts to screw machinist and bard over in our DPS output from poor skill design is how they are going about it. I will wait to see what their changes do but I doubt SE will do enough. Prior to HW in ARR the classes with biggest issues were DRG and SMN which most will agree do well since HW but it took SE so long to fix those that I am half expecting the two classes with biggest problems in HW aka MCH and BRD wont be completely fixed until 6 months or a year down the line.

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Originally Posted by LLamaPie

1) Why kill bard's mobility?
2) WHY remove our auto attack potential in both the Barage nerf and WM?
3) Why does Bard damage scale so poorly with new gear?

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1) They didn't, it's intended to be an optional stance to bridge the target dummy dps gap in situations where mobility is irrelevant.

2) Not certain; but they probably wanted to make extra sure that WM was really bad when you need to move a lot. Remember, it's supposed to be a -secondary- mode, not something Bards would be in all or even the majority of the time. So I suspect a lot of WM's weakness stems from SE trying to make dead certain WM wasn't just always-better than normal mode.

3) Secondary stats were re-scaled for everybody. Because of Bard's special relationship with Crit, this may have hurt them harder than it did other classes, but that's a presumption on my part with no math to back it.

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Originally Posted by Cetonis

3) Secondary stats were re-scaled for everybody. Because of Bard's special relationship with Crit, this may have hurt them harder than it did other classes, but that's a presumption on my part with no math to back it.

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Don't forget the worse WD scaling bards (and MCH) have compared to any other class.

On Bismarck EX I can do phase 1 and phase 2 without interruption, and on phase 3 i only turn it off on "Wind" phase which has a LOT of movements. Let me see if I can get a parse so people can compare. I am at i170 with i180 bow, missing 2 more law accessories, the rest at i170 no upgrade yet (except for bow).

4 minute parse at i165 with only i170 bow and combo of i160 and i170 gear was at 810 max, all WM.

Looks like the developer team has heard our voice, and is working on changes

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...3%83%89/page57

Wanderer's Minuet: Development team is aware of the following: -Generally, DPS is larger when not under Minuet. -Bards' specialty of "Ability to attack while moving" is impacted when under Minuet, hard to see benefits of being in Minuet. -Unwieldy to change stances.
Due to the degree to which the above points are felt by the community, especially the first point (Less damage in Minuet), the development team is looking into changes.
They're looking to change the effect (but not increase damage too much), make it easier to switch between stances, and reduce the difficulty and general clunkiness with the current Bard.
Warden's Paean: Generally treated as hard to use/low value, development team is looking into it.
Bloodletter Bug: Fixed in hotfix.
Also a bit about waiting for player feedback from Alexander before committing any further changes

@cyber yes i posted that already ^^

At a guess I think they'll remove the cast time on changing stance. I honestly don't think there will be any other change, or at least not until they see what heights bards may reach with this change because evidently not a single se employee plays brd. This way through hard work and skill I guess a dps increase would emerge. I would totally go into WM for barrage + emp arrow if I could activate/deactivate it instantly and off the global cooldown. Going into WM for IJ would be great too. I hope this is what they plan....because the idea of brd being in wanderers minuet permanently is just .....so stupid ><

Greetings,

I'd like to share a comment from Yoshi-P in response to all the feedback about bard.

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

Hello, everyone,
FFXIV producer/director Yoshida here.
Thank you for all the feedback you've been posting regarding bard.

I'd like to take a moment to discuss how the development team recognizes the current situation and our plans for adjustment.

• The Wanderer's Minuet
  In regards to the Wanderer's Minuet, the ability that you learn from the level 52 job quest, we are aware of the following points of feedback:
  
  1. Until reaching level 60, using Wanderer's Minuet will result in less damage being dealt in comparison to when you are not using it.
  2. It's difficult to feel the benefits of Wanderer's Minuet versus the risk of not being able to move while attacking, which was a perk of playing as a bard.
  3. It's difficult to use Wanderer's Minuet because the casting time required for activating it is too long.
  As a result of the initial bad impression given by the first problem, and the length of time required to cast it, I think that it's still difficult to feel the benefits of this ability even when you hit level 60.
  
  The team is currently working on fixes to resolve these problems.
  
  In addition to making adjustments so that the effect of this ability is fitting right after you learn it, we will be making it easier to switch into and out of Wanderer's Minuet and eliminating the current aspects that make it difficult to use. At the same time we will be paying close attention to the balance of each skill so the damage output at level 60 does not largely increase.
  

• The Warden's Paean
  We've been receiving feedback that the utility and value of using the Warden's Paean seems low, and the development team is aware of this. We are currently looking into adjustments.

• Regarding the bug wherein actions cannot be used temporarily
  I apologize for the inconveniences caused by this bug. We addressed this in today's hotfix. I apologize for the time it took to properly address.

There has only been a small amount of time since you all have reached level 60 (this goes for all jobs; not just bard), and the new raid will be opening shortly, so I'm sure you will continue to explore your jobs with trial and error.

The development team is constantly keeping a watch on job balance, and we will be reading over all of the feedback we receive after the raid has opened and making adjustments as necessary.

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This is why Yoshi P is the greatest MMO directer. Better than any other MMO on the market. Quick response and clearly defines that he understands the problem, and can even admit he is wrong with a decision. Unlike Blizz which only deflects, backpedals and shirks responsibility for failures.

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Originally Posted by Grekumah

Greetings,

I'd like to share a comment from Yoshi-P in response to all the feedback about bard.

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But Machinist is perfectly fine, right?

Where's the reply about MCH/GB?

We need improvements BEFORE THE RAID RELEASES or else we won't be welcomed into parties!

We're already being kicked from groups or not invited!

MCH are already being despised/flamed.

We need BALANCE IMPROVEMENTS SOONER THAN ALEXANDER'S LAUNCH.

Ok, it's nice and dandy that Yoshida spoke to us and he aknowledged that Minuet is difficult to use but his last sentence makes me think that BRDs, from their point of view, should have so much less damage than other dps and comparable to a WAR?

Ok...

OK first of thx to Grekumah for the update, finally some positive response after days of bad blood.

now to this here:

"We need BALANCE IMPROVEMENTS SOONER THAN ALEXANDER'S LAUNCH."

id say ur half right yes we need them changes soon but id say we need them before the savage mode of alexander starts.

if i remember correctly it was said every player in the game should be able to clear the alex normal mode. so now what that means is that we have 2 weaks to test out the class hopefully already with the first changes in an actual raid environment and after that we get some more changes or maybe not if it works.

ofc MCH is a whole other problem and i can see where ur coming from but since ive tested him as well. i have to say MCH works as he should. ok maybe a bit much rng. the only fix he needs are tweaks to the dmg numbers wich and i agree with you here are to low.