A serious discussion about abridging the story quest 1-50 (discouraging new players)

so you want a story driven MMO to make story optional? lol

content has being gated behind story since 2.0 not sure why now all the sudden ppl want it not to be like that is beyond me

heck to even access jobs u need to be up to a certain point in story, ex primals are behind story gate, raids are behind story gate

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Originally Posted by Erepio

=content has being gated behind story since 2.0 not sure why now all the sudden ppl want it not to be like that is beyond me

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Look, everyone! It's another person who didn't read the OP!

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

Look, everyone! It's another person who didn't read the OP!

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oh i have but there is a big difference between making story optional FROM remove a few fetch quest from the story quest line (which perosnally i dont want to happen cuse well i like em)

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Originally Posted by Erepio

(which perosnally i dont want to happen cuse well i like em)

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And with that, you've just defeated your own argument.

If you like the story, good. No one is suggesting taking it away from you.

But other people skipping the story has zero bearing on your ability to enjoy the game.

In fact, many, MANY players are playing FFXIV having 0 clue what the story is about since they just esc-mashed their way through it anyway.

These people are ON YOUR SERVER, RUNNING DUNGEONS WITH YOU, and yet you seem to be entirely unharmed by this fact!

Imagine that...

Counting on just post to justify something is a false narrative,you nor I have the actual data to back each other claim and just counting the post itself does not= losing a ton of sub's it actually = we don't know. Every mmo loses sub for different reason putting the sole reason because of X issue is a fallacious argument on your part, especially if it just solely on quest. It multiple factors just because a group of people agree on something doesn't equal the whole community as a whole that is also conjecture on everyone's claims of X reason.

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Originally Posted by Erepio

so you want a story driven MMO to make story optional? lol

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Yep, just like SWtoR.. probably THE MOST story driven MMO on the market currently.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

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and u seem grab something and post it out of context to make it clear:

i PERSONALLY like the filler and fetch quest that are between the important parts of the main story like helping Tataru be more helpful with the Scions for example that have no bearing on the overall story arc...and i would be ok if those would at this point the life of the game made it as normal side quest, since they have as a whole started moving to more to the point main story quest

what im against is completely making the story optional ie the preparation quests to rescue the Scions....why? cuse im playing this game because of that.....I came into this game expecting a story driven MMO where i have to do story to move on, even the raids are tied to the story..if i wanted i game where i could just skip story and just do raids id be playing something else

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Originally Posted by MortalWare

Yep, just like SWtoR.. probably THE MOST story driven MMO on the market currently.

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and guess what their expansion this year is an overhull of the story due to the fact that it become so bad going forward

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Originally Posted by Erepio

what im against is completely making the story optional ie the preparation quests to rescue the Scions....why? cuse im playing this game because of that.....I came into this game expecting a story driven MMO where i have to do story to move on

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If it was no longer required to "move on," but still available to do, how does that affect you in any way?

I’ve only been able to play for a few months (about 3 total). I work and have an active life outside FFXIV. Seldom have I felt that to be a taxing undertaking. Yes, there is a lot of grinding, my FC has warned me. At first I was unsure if it would be worth it but then my FC leader had me look at it like this, “You’re lucky to be doing it with the Heavensward level cap because you’ll be getting EXP the whole time.” It can be a detractor but that’s MMOs for you. I don’t think the team working on the game is likely to abridge the story anytime soon. That is why it is up to veteran players to try and make the other parts of the game shine while new player go through the lvl 50 MSQs. At the end of the day it is about playing with other players. It would be nice if I could jump into the new content but at least I get to play with a group of friends that are trying to make the grind a little easier on me.

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Originally Posted by topher9000

new player go through the 50 MSQs. At the end of the day it is about playing with other players.

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Yeah I wouldn't mind it being 50 MSQ's but it is around 350 of them, and each quest isn't a 1,2,3 done quest, they take a good 10 minutes each or so, sometime more it depends how many npc's and teleports i have to waste time going around talking to -.- thats every damn quest other than the KILL X QUESTS OR FIND X QUESTS IN THIS GAME, talk to him, port cross county, talk to him, port again, talk again(5x more) oh were back at the quest giver hooray you made me waste 15 minutes of my time talking to people for me to complete this quest, lets do it again with the next 200 quests yaaaaay.

It gets very TEDIOUS and BORING which does not = challenging or fun, it = boring time wasted on nothing. I also do not want to get rid of the MSQ, I want it their, Trimmed/optional, even if you can go to ishgard but can not quest on MSQ, I would at least have expected them to make the new classes playable from the get-go as opposed to 350 msq quest grind for a month to try a class that people are done gearing already…..

They advertised Heavensward as bringing in 3 new classes, alexander, etc, AMAZING AMAZING LOOKING THINGS ADDED. It was like sugar coating a cookie, it made us buyers want the game, The ad's not once ever said you get this but you need to beat our entire first game first, that is completely ridiculous, if this was how they planned it, LET PEOPLE KNOW ON THE AD's so at least we can buy the first game and start their and work our way up to A either beating it or B almost beating it so it isn't as long of a grind to play these newly advertised PLAYABLE classes that they added to the game

It's funny how everyone (only now, mind you) claims that the 2.1-2.55 MSQ is boring and dull and a drag and etc, but these very same people slogged through it, talked about it with their friends / twitch channel, and laughed about the awkwardness all on or around day 1 of the patch. We all did it. We all know its boring, but now, all of a sudden, with presented with the fact that the MSQ are gating something (because this isnt a first for this game) we call B.S and are outraged.

(I should add that while some of the quests are boring, the payoff is usually really good, like a typical RPG)

I had a friend come back to the game when Syrcus Tower was released... I was so excited that I wanted to show him the new raid. But guess what? He had to slog through the Crystal Tower quest to even get close to seeing it. Ooh I was bummed, but I told him "lets get you caught up together" and we just played the game. We got it done in little to no time and we had somewhat of a fun time while we were doing it. Was it an "affront to our intelligence" by SE to have to do that content? No because playing an MMO and really any other game is just a way to waste time (if we are honest with ourselves).

Just look at this as a way to connect with your friends in-game.

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Originally Posted by Atrayl

If it was no longer required to "move on," but still available to do, how does that affect you in any way?

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Because that generally what JRPG does its there style of RPGing and then there's western style, that I'm assuming your use to. People like yourself are pretty much demanding a total different demographic of people to conform to so called standard western RPG playing style, you chose to enter into a JRPG and now demanding it change to fit your preference of play that how it affect people two different demographic of people with different standards are bound to collide almost like religion ironically, I would also say the same thing if the roles were reversed.

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Originally Posted by Xairos

It's funny how everyone (only now, mind you) claims that the 2.1-2.55 MSQ is boring and dull and a drag and etc, but these very same people slogged through it, talked about it with their friends / twitch channel, and laughed about the awkwardness all on or around day 1 of the patch. We all did it. We all know its boring...
I had a friend come back to the game when Syrcus Tower was released... I was so excited that I wanted to show him the new raid. ...

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Yes, everybody shares the exact same feelings and opinions on the content which is why there's a few very long threads filled with angry posts disagreeing with each other about the opinions shared within.

I wonder if there's a difference between gating raid 2 behind raid 1, and gating jobs behind completion of all of the 2.0-2.55 story

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Originally Posted by Exotik_Legacy

Yeah I wouldn't mind it being 50 MSQ's but it is around 350 of them

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Sorry, I forgot to put the 'lvl' in front of the 50. Though I do see you point on misleading ADs.

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Originally Posted by odintius

Because that generally what JRPG does its there style of RPGing and then there's western style, that I'm assuming your use to. People like yourself are pretty much demanding a total different demographic of people to conform to so called standard western RPG playing style, you chose to enter into a JRPG and now demanding it change to fit your preference of play that how it affect people two different demographic of people with different standards are bound to collide almost like religion ironically, I would also say the same thing if the roles were reversed.

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You didn't answer the question.

Haven't read the thread, but want to chime in.

Started playing FFXIV when ARR was released, got to 50 and quit. Recently picked it up. I have zero interest in the storyline, I have zero interest in playing the job I got to 50.

I've now spent a solid 10-15 hours playing the force storyline to unlock the new jobs. 90% of this experience has been mindlessly porting between places and loading screens. I just spent 30 minutes porting and running between about 15 NPCs, not engaging with any enemies or having any immersion what so ever.

If you enjoy the story, that's great. I play MMOs for their features, not their story. Forcing me to play the afk port game for 15-20 hours is not fun and simply makes me want to take my time and money elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by Atrayl

You didn't answer the question.

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yeah he did..if the game doesnt require story to move on the, i would more than likely stop playing because a major reason im hooked on the game is that

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Originally Posted by Phyxice

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*waves*

If u dont enjoy the game u playing then go play something else, dont try to chance the game, that others enjoy, in order to fit ur play style.... With the amount of MMOs u prolly gonna find something

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Originally Posted by Phyxice

Haven't read the thread, but want to chime in.

Started playing FFXIV when ARR was released, got to 50 and quit. Recently picked it up. I have zero interest in the storyline, I have zero interest in playing the job I got to 50.

I've now spent a solid 10-15 hours playing the force storyline to unlock the new jobs. 90% of this experience has been mindlessly porting between places and loading screens. I just spent 30 minutes porting and running between about 15 NPCs, not engaging with any enemies or having any immersion what so ever.

If you enjoy the story, that's great. I play MMOs for their features, not their story. Forcing me to play the afk port game for 15-20 hours is not fun and simply makes me want to take my time and money elsewhere.

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Objectively, you can render all mmos to the afk port click through quests game if you try. My question is if you will have the same sentiment towards heavensward because it's much of the same application of click and port and click and port.

Honestly, I'd be happy if they just bumped the exp gain from main scenario quests to an amount to level. A majority of my pre50 grind has been literally grinding to the next scenario soft cap. I can skip cutscenes and I have the money to port and the skills and friends to finish the quests, but the grinding BS is making me want to say screw it. It's boring as hell.

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Originally Posted by Atrayl

You didn't answer the question.

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I did you chose to ignore it because it doesn't fit your own narrative your ideology blinds you to it, how one is effected my be different from how you might perceive it. You already have it in your head in no way can this have any effect on people because you mindset demands it to be so really no answer will sway you just like two different religions built on there right your wrong mentality typical response really.

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Originally Posted by Atrayl

If it was no longer required to "move on," but still available to do, how does that affect you in any way?

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Peer pressure from friends/FC to get up and ready ASAP for Alexander.

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Originally Posted by odintius

you nor I have the actual data to back each other claim

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So you're saying that every person who has posted here objecting to the length of the MSQ or finds it boring, or has outright been unable to get their friends to play this game are all...lying? Why are they lying? What motive to people have to come into this thread, lie, then leave?

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Originally Posted by Erepio

what im against is completely making the story optional ie the preparation quests to rescue the Scions....why? cuse im playing this game because of that.....

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Yes, YOU are.

YOU are not every person who ever will or would play FFXIV. Your gameplay experience is also completely, 100% unaffected by whether or not people do the story quest.

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Originally Posted by Xairos

It's funny how everyone (only now, mind you) claims that the 2.1-2.55 MSQ is boring and dull and a drag and etc, but these very same people slogged through it, talked about it with their friends / twitch channel, and laughed about the awkwardness all on or around day 1 of the patch. We all did it. We all know its boring, but now, all of a sudden, with presented with the fact that the MSQ are gating something (because this isnt a first for this game) we call B.S and are outraged.

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1. Many people did it because it was something to do or it gated content.

2. As the OP mentioned, the content you're talking about was released over the period of two years, hence why it was vastly more tolerable.

Try an experiment: drink one beer a night for 30 days and see how it effects you.

Then, drink 30 beers in ONE night and see how it goes.

When you're busy vomiting up your guts later that night, remember that's what people who try to do all of this in a row are feeling.

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Originally Posted by Erepio

yeah he did..if the game doesnt require story to move on the, i would more than likely stop playing because a major reason im hooked on the game is that

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That explains what you would do, but it doesn't explain how it affects you.

Tomorrow, the code that says:

if(ARR_MSQ_COMPLETE is not true){
allowAllowAccesToIshgard = false
}

Is removed. What negatively changes for you when you log in and go to play the game as you would otherwise? Don't tell me what you would do. Tell me why you would do it.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

Peer pressure from friends/FC to get up and ready ASAP for Alexander.

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Thats sounds like a personal issue that should not dictate things for thousands of players.

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Originally Posted by odintius

Because that generally what JRPG does its there style of RPGing and then there's western style, that I'm assuming your use to. People like yourself are pretty much demanding a total different demographic of people to conform to so called standard western RPG playing style, you chose to enter into a JRPG and now demanding it change to fit your preference of play that how it affect people two different demographic of people with different standards are bound to collide almost like religion ironically, I would also say the same thing if the roles were reversed.

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Please explain to me how making the story quest optional changes YOUR experience even one iota...

I hope they do fix this in the future.
I started doing the story quest from level 37 seriously june 21 and I am close to the end, Currently on the "keeper of the lake" part and I try to read everything so I dont miss something important but I can honestly say that if I had something else to do at the moment or didn't buy HW I wold quit right now.
WHEN WILL IT END??

As it currently stand you can pay me and there is still NO way I am ever leveling a new character though I want for RP purposes.

This thread summed up:

Those Against the current system: If you enjoy the content that's awesome, but please don't force it on us to open up what we do enjoy.

Those For the current system: I enjoy the content, so you have to do it or leave!

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

1. Many people did it because it was something to do or it gated content.

2. As the OP mentioned, the content you're talking about was released over the period of two years, hence why it was vastly more tolerable.

Try an experiment: drink one beer a night for 30 days and see how it effects you.

Then, drink 30 beers in ONE night and see how it goes.

When you're busy vomiting up your guts later that night, remember that's what people who try to do all of this in a row are feeling.

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You are still re-iterating the idea that one has to drink 30 beers in one night. Why now are you rushing to play a game when you could look anywhere (even these forums) to see that there was a requirement. You can even take your own experiences from 2.0 and make an educated guess that there would be requirements.

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Originally Posted by Xairos

You are still re-iterating the idea that one has to drink 30 beers in one night. Why now are you rushing to play a game when you could look anywhere (even these forums) to see that there was a requirement. You can even take your own experiences from 2.0 and make an educated guess that there would be requirements.

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Thread title: A serious discussion about abridging the story quest 1-50 (discouraging new players)

I've bolded the part that you seem to be missing in your post. Some of us did have 2.55 done and ready, because we played through it all. Some other people, quite possibly the new people mentioned in the thread title, wouldn't know because they had no reason to know, because they didn't play the game. I've got a friend that quit over the MSQ, one that doesn't really enjoy the MSQ due to the litany of reasons posted in this thread, and a third who hasn't purchased yet due to not wanting to sign up to sit through all of that.

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Originally Posted by Atrayl

Thats sounds like a personal issue that should not dictate things for thousands of players.

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Except that it's not so personal, when it's plausible to assume that would happen in a widespread manner.
The thing is... the only way to prevent ppl from making other ppl rush is to make rushing impossible.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

Except that it's not so personal, when it's plausible to assume that would happen in a widespread manner.

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No, it really isn't.

Maybe you should play with people who won't pressure you into doing things you don't want to do?

Did the MSQ 8 times.

Didn't have any problems doing it and leveling to 50 just doing the MSQ stuff is easy anyways.

Did go through 11 seasons of Stargate SG1 and Atlantis. Also ended up watching Futurama.

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Originally Posted by ThanMazus

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I had a friend come back to the game when Syrcus Tower was released... I was so excited that I wanted to show him the new raid. But guess what? He had to slog through the Crystal Tower quest to even get close to seeing it. Ooh I was bummed, but I told him "lets get you caught up together" and we just played the game. Was it an "affront to our intelligence" by SE to have to do that content? No because playing an MMO and really any other game is just a way to kill time.

Either new players will want to play the game for what it is or they will find something to make them quit. You can\\'t change other people. You can\\'t change the way HW (and much of the cool stuff in ffxiv) is story gated. This whole game is attunement. Some of our friends will hate that. Not the game\\'s fault.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

Please explain to me how making the story quest optional changes YOUR experience even one iota...

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He did it's because the game forces him to, and he would cancel his sub if the game no longer forces him to do the quests.

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Originally Posted by Xairos

Story Time 2.0

Either new players will want to play the game for what it is or they will find something to make them quit. You can\\'t change other people. You can\\'t change the way HW (and much of the cool stuff in ffxiv) is story gated. This whole game is attunement. Some of our friends will hate that. Not the game\\'s fault.

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Yes, I read your anecdote about Crystal Tower the first time you posted it. There is still a difference between gating raid 2 behind raid 1, and gating new jobs behind the entire set of 350~ (quoting this number from another user) quests. I can't change it, but that doesn't mean it can't be changed. Kudos though, for not being like other posters and being excited for having driven paying customers away.

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Originally Posted by Jayjohn

Did the MSQ 8 times.

Didn't have any problems doing it and leveling to 50 just doing the MSQ stuff is easy anyways.

Did go through 11 seasons of Stargate SG1 and Atlantis. Also ended up watching Futurama.

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Did you watch all the seasons back to back and all the commercials?
Or did you watch the abridged version with no commercials

OP is correct.

It's a long, tedious, crappy, boring, and silly quest chain.
Are there great points in the storyline, YES! There are, infact last 3-4 quests before entering Ishgard were fantastic, hell, I even read through every line of dialog. 90% of the rest I skipped as I couldn't keep my eyes open due to boredom.

But most of the stuff is just nonsensical go from point A->B->C->B->A->B->C garbage. If that's what people in this thread consider "real" work" and real experience like the GOT experience"....please, just please stop it.

What they need to do is consolidate/compound the story in some fashion or the other.

Also, as per some other people, if this is the only way to stop gold-sellers, then what a sh188y way of doing this.

But meh, keep your expectations low, almost 2 years in, they can't let you queue when your companion is out, what do you expect.

This is how I look at online games now, there are some things that are going to be Sh188y in every game. This game shines at certain points, and just bores you to death at others.

It took me about 3 days to finish the story, it was a crappy experience, it was boring and a snoozefest till the last 3 quests. Just do them and get it over with. It'll be painful but if they have decided to lock the classes and zone behind a story, screw it, finish it and get to the new zone.

It's not a bright thing to do, but perhaps that is the price you pay to play a game that..well, is much better than any other game in the market currently.

Cheers-

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Originally Posted by ThanMazus

Yes, I read your anecdote about Crystal Tower the first time you posted it.

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Just checking. I empathize with a new play and the mountains of stuff they have to do to join us in the fun. But the twist is every game is like that. If you wanna play destiny it's the same thing. In fact it's cash gate for that game. I look at how we (as a genre) got here. We all somewhat asked for meaning for us killing stuff. Story gives meaning. Now we are tied to the story. So for SE it means they have to wrap up a story each patch iteration (3.0 to 3.5) so no one is gated. That's probably the best way forward.

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Originally Posted by Tuathaa

Did you watch all the seasons back to back and all the commercials?
Or did you watch the abridged version with no commercials

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Oh, the commercial blocks (grind for gear and exp) got already removed from the 2.x MSQ.
Now you can just do the MSQ and don't have to worry about the ilevel requirement until 2.55 because the MSQ give you all what you need.

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Originally Posted by Tuathaa

Did you watch all the seasons back to back and all the commercials?
Or did you watch the abridged version with no commercials

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I watched the abridged version.

I get people got issues with the MSQ and being gated by it. But leveling from 1- 50 it is way faster than doing anything else in the game From my experience and that's an experience leveling up 8 characters, fetch and travel quests literally take a few minutes to get done and you don't need to be paying 100% attention.