Please Allow 50's to Enter Ishgard w/o having completed MSQ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsuga

Ehh, I wouldn't go that far.. maybe the Ifrit segment, joining a Grand Company and your reintroduction to Minfilia (which was actually an awesome moment for 1.0 players!) were pretty close, but the rest is different enough (maybe I'm misremembering?), especially the segments in the individual nations. This is not taking into consideration the meteor plot, which was completely different.

Not to discount your larger point.



Oh, awesome, thanks!

---

Actually, I liked the end cutscenes of Praetorium more cause of all the 'oh shyt' that was flying around when the epiphanies started popping like popcorn.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Felis

And this

Everyone who want to read the explanation to this (from october 2011):
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post439683

---

^---Pretty much end thread.

Anything else is pretty much people arguing for arguing's sake.

Also thank's for that Felis, bookmarked.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velhart

SE is always looking for people to help fill up lower level parties, especially in MSQ dungeons/primals. Gating alts opens that opportunity. Alright there is one.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsuga

Off the top of my head, gating alts is good because it forces you to play through content

---

The Duty Roulette literally exists for this reason, though. So long as high level characters receive rewards, they will queue. The game is going to be top heavy if you keep people from making low characters and the gating of like, dungeons and having to do the intro baby quests doesn't really help with queues.

These things are attempts at confirming a bias, not examining the problem objectively.

You will also note that I said it is largely irrelevant, as if in HW you can level/gear through the MSQ, then it becomes the most efficient way to level and there's nothing wrong with the gate if it's open.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kauthryn

The Duty Roulette literally exists for this reason, though. So long as high level characters receive rewards, they will queue.

---

One reward for each queue each day. That's it. No other reason to throw yourself into the queue. Farming tomes people will actively choose DGs the prefer or are quick clears. That's not a definitive solution. Gating content for people who really want to make extras and making them run the DGs just as much as newbies is a lot more reliable.

This might sound selfish and it most likely is but not allowing access to Ishgard (and maybe the new area too) until you've finished the MSQ will most likely limit all those RMT messages we're getting in the current areas of the game... or not since /tell will most likely continue we'll just see less /shout while playing in the new areas but even that I'm not convinced...
Still doing the MSQ doesn't takes too long and the revamped loot for the current dungeons and added bonus XP should help people quite a bit in getting these MSQ done so just do them you'll lose what? a week or 2 at worst to do them and that is only if you're playing an hour or 2 a day. The longest part will most likely be waiting to get in one of the few MSQ's dungeons and Trials and even then if you queue while crafting/gathering this shouldn't seem too long. Instead of complaining about having to complete the MSQ to access Ishgard star doing them now and you'll be done by the time Heavensward goes live.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Felis

And this

Everyone who want to read the explanation to this (from october 2011):
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post439683

---

I am ashamed to say i only remembered it after it was presented once again. Hats off to your Superior research skills, people will still whine, and moan, but seriously this effectively shows those request to be little more than a child's tantrum.

i brought in 2 friends this month, they've completed the main story quest aswell as having levelled their chosen classes ready for heavensward.

It's not that hard. At all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alacran

I am ashamed to say i only remembered it after it was presented once again. Hats off to your Superior research skills, people will still whine, and moan, but seriously this effectively shows those request to be little more than a child's tantrum.

---

I dont remember that post myself, it was after my time. Can't say I disagree with the decision, but thats in the past. I dont see how it ends the discussion or makes anyone in this thread have a less valid point however.


If anything it does kind of validate the earlier point that Yoshi doesnt quite like seeing DoH/DoL as actual classes. However the changes in the...1.2? update already made that clear to me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

I'm glad someone said it.

---

Saying that its fast to complete the MSQ is not a good argument for your case. As it takes a significant amount of time to complete. Time spend on just the MSQ, not other things such as (other) dungeons, fates, gathering, crafting, talking with people, etc,etc.



Fyi, I much prefer the gating as it is. But the arguments people use in this thread are just...I have no words for them.
Its like people dont even consider what might be obstructions to others enjoyment of the game.

no /10char

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilraen

Actually, I liked the end cutscenes of Praetorium more cause of all the 'oh shyt' that was flying around when the epiphanies started popping like popcorn.

---

Agreed, it was a much better climax and conclusion, as awesome as that last cutscene in 1.0 was (the vanilla story, I mean, not meteor). The conclusion for 1.0 felt a little tacked on to me, imo (again the one with the scions and gaius).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kauthryn

These things are attempts at confirming a bias, not examining the problem objectively.

---

First, that's only a little presumptuous. Second, the logic stands that forcing alts to progress through content does serve to boost the amount of people doing said content, thereby helping the community as a whole. Alts are not necessary in this game, but you get plenty of reward for leveling one, and I don't see why SE should make it any easier for someone to level a second character so that they can do things like take advantage of limitations on desynth and soon specialized crafting. If you want that stuff you should go through the same amount of work to have to get it.

Trust me, I'd love an easy route to leveling my alts, if only to play on different looking characters from time to time. I don't like replaying content but I understand why the roadblocks are there and it makes sense to me. You are not entitled to have an easier way of bypassing individual character limitations just because you've beat the game once all ready.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aeyis

Saying that its fast to complete the MSQ is not a good argument for your case. As it takes a significant amount of time to complete. Time spend on just the MSQ, not other things such as (other) dungeons, fates, gathering, crafting, talking with people, etc,etc.

---

Only for veterans who remember suddenly that they have still to do the MSQ.
New players spend the time on level up their classes while doing the MSQ.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kauthryn

The Duty Roulette literally exists for this reason, though. So long as high level characters receive rewards, they will queue. The game is going to be top heavy if you keep people from making low characters and the gating of like, dungeons and having to do the intro baby quests doesn't really help with queues.

These things are attempts at confirming a bias, not examining the problem objectively.

You will also note that I said it is largely irrelevant, as if in HW you can level/gear through the MSQ, then it becomes the most efficient way to level and there's nothing wrong with the gate if it's open.

---

I think you've been objective, but I don't agree with you.
You speak like alts shouldn't have to unlock everything over again with the MSQ.
Part of making an alt is starting from scratch. That's just the nature of it.

You level all your classes again and you get the MSQ back, experiencing it first-hand.
I mean, if it wasn't really about that then they could simply duplicate your character with all classes leveled as high as you got them.
That would be a bit ridiculous though.

There are achievement sharing in other games, but those aren't this game.
The achievements aren't actually related to the locking in this game, like it is in some others.
It's not that simple to take that tech and adapt it to this game.
This game was set up to bypass those comfort systems in the first place, by allowing you to play all the classes into one character.
The whole system is designed differently with that in mind.

So they could do a lot of work to remake that tech for a game that tried to not to need it.
But then there are actually people who build alts to redo everything like a fresh character.
I know a few. I've done it myself. The experience of starting from fresh is part of that.
So I don't think it does justice to people who would play like that.

So I don't really see a problem.
If someone thinks having an alt is worth it, they'd go through the process.
If they don't, don't make an alt.

Making an alt in this game is meant to be a bigger deal because one character gets access and builds up (unlocks) a lot more than other games that have stuff like account-wide achievements.
I don't think that should be overlooked.

The problem I have involves those 8 player trials that you already have issues finding people to do.

Drop them to 4 player or remove them entirely. Castrum and Westwind had hour long waits for them for crying out loud.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nadirah

The problem I have involves those 8 player trials that you already have issues finding people to do.

Drop them to 4 player or remove them entirely. Castrum and Westwind had hour long waits for them for crying out loud.

---

This has long been discussed and was addressed for 3.0, to enable ease of access to instances.

Partial parties will be optional in ARR content (pre 50), and possibly even chocobo companions can fill vacancies.

Also- first-timers to dungeons will be in priority DF queues.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Felis

Only for veterans who remember suddenly that they have still to do the MSQ.
New players spend the time on level up their classes while doing the MSQ.

---

No, I speak from the experience of someone that did it recently (2 months~ ago) with plenty of time left, and whos doing it all again.


I find it strange that so many agree with your odd reasoning...I mean theres a pretty obvious error in your argument:
A lot of the MSQ happens at level 50, at which time new players will have already completed ''leveling up''...
In addition even the leveling up part of the MSQ takes quite a bit of time to complete.


As such its an incredibly poor argument to use.
Because indeed, for everyone, it takes quite a bit of time to complete the MSQ, its not by any means fast.

Take it from me, someone that agrees with the content being locked behind the story: your argument of the MSQ being fast to complete is just plain incorrect.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Allyrion

If someone thinks having an alt is worth it, they'd go through the process.
If they don't, don't make an alt.

.

---

Indeed, such is my opinion as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aeyis

No, I speak from the experience of someone that did it recently (2 months~ ago) with plenty of time left, and whos doing it all again.


I find it strange that so many agree with your odd reasoning...I mean theres a pretty obvious error in your argument:
A lot of the MSQ happens at level 50, at which time new players will have already completed ''leveling up''...

---

A lot of the MSQ at 50, what? There are roughly half the quests needed for the Astral quests compared to the Umbral. A very large portion of the overall MSQ happens from 1 to 50, whereas the Astral quests are only roughly 100 very easy and quick quests, with the exception of the few dungeons and trials.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aeyis

No, I speak from the experience of someone that did it recently (2 months~ ago) with plenty of time left, and whos doing it all again.


I find it strange that so many agree with your odd reasoning...I mean theres a pretty obvious error in your argument:
A lot of the MSQ happens at level 50, at which time new players will have already completed ''leveling up''...


In addition even the leveling up part of the MSQ takes quite a bit of time to complete.


As such its an incredibly poor argument to use. Because indeed, for everyone, it takes quite a bit of time to complete the MSQ, its not by any means fast.

Indeed, such is my opinion as well.

---

You're operating under the assumption that the MSQs will continue to no longer give EXP after about cape westwind.
If you're leveling normally, then those quests SHOULD take you to about lvl 52 or so, maybe even 55 (there are only 2-3 MSQ dungeons and Trials have always given crap for exp). Those of us that did all the quests ahead of time have our "edge" in the fact that our gear greatly outpaces what will be seen in early HW areas, whereas a new player will have more levels under their belt to compensate for their inherent lack of super balanced stats.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kyuven

You're operating under the assumption that the MSQs will continue to no longer give EXP after about cape westwind.
If you're leveling normally, then those quests SHOULD take you to about lvl 52 or so, maybe even 55 (there are only 2-3 MSQ dungeons and Trials have always given crap for exp). Those of us that did all the quests ahead of time have our "edge" in the fact that our gear greatly outpaces what will be seen in early HW areas, whereas a new player will have more levels under their belt to compensate for their inherent lack of super balanced stats.

---

They said going from 50-60 would be the same amount of time from going 1-50 in 2.0 days. I highly doubt a new player running cape westwind and the castrum's would receive such a significant boost in XP gains that they would be level 52 or even 55 by the time they hit 3.0 content. Expect leveling 50-60 to be much slower than what you expect and the amount of XP needed to be far greater in comparison to the previous 1-50 levels.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aeyis

I find it strange that so many agree with your odd reasoning...I mean theres a pretty obvious error in your argument:
A lot of the MSQ happens at level 50, at which time new players will have already completed ''leveling up''...
In addition even the leveling up part of the MSQ takes quite a bit of time to complete.

---

You have to see it how it will be in 3.0, not how it is in 2.0. In 3.0 you will not have completed ''leveling up'' while reaching the lv50 msq.

Quote:

---

When the game launches, it will be like the start of the second season of a drama, so we'll still want new players to check out the first season. We want to keep the "first season" there, but allow players to quickly move through it so that they can enjoy the "second season," so based on that, we're increasing the ease of approaching the old content.

We'll be doing an overall review of the amount of experience given by main quest rewards in A Realm Reborn as well as the equipment handed out by quests and make it such that you can simply go from A Realm Reborn to patch 2.55 and have your item level be high enough that you can equip the gear and move right on to Ishgard.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by m3eansean

They said going from 50-60 would be the same amount of time from going 1-50 in 2.0 days. I highly doubt a new player running cape westwind and the castrum's would receive such a significant boost in XP gains that they would be level 52 or even 55 by the time they hit 3.0 content. Expect leveling 50-60 to be much slower than what you expect and the amount of XP needed to be far greater in comparison to the previous 1-50 levels.

---

They should be lv50 the moment they reach castrum with just the mainstory quests. But there are still other mainstory quests between the fight against Ultima and the march into exile. That should give them lv 52 - 53 before reaching 3.0, I guess.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by m3eansean

They said going from 50-60 would be the same amount of time from going 1-50 in 2.0 days. I highly doubt a new player running cape westwind and the castrum's would receive such a significant boost in XP gains that they would be level 52 or even 55 by the time they hit 3.0 content. Expect leveling 50-60 to be much slower than what you expect and the amount of XP needed to be far greater in comparison to the previous 1-50 levels.

---

Just saying, but how long does it take to go 1-50 for a brand new player anyways?

I ask that having an answer already from watching and helping a group of players in my FC who just came over from WoW.


ANSWER: Just under two weeks.


That is just a rough average because a couple of them are already well into relic weapon quest. I did chimera, hydra, and the HM primals on one person's run. Please keep in mind, these are fresh players to FFXIV with no prior experience with SE run MMOs, ie no FFXI vets. These are just decent players with real lives, jobs and other regular people stuff-they haven't been playing 24/7 for that 2 week span.

1-50 isn't that bad now and it is only going to get easier come 3.0. With the devs saying that 51-60 is going to be approximately the same amount of time in terms of exp needed, not seeing where its even going to be an issue worth comment once the expansion hits.

In fact, the situation looks like it will shape up to be a lot like when SE raised lvl caps in FXI after lvl 75 had been the cap for a long period of time. Only in FFXIV we are going to essentially be given a "free" level 60 just by finishing the next leg of the main quest. In XI you had to go out a find that new set of mobs to grind before you could recap that first job's exp each lvl cap increase.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kyuven

You're operating under the assumption that the MSQs will continue to no longer give EXP after about cape westwind.
If you're leveling normally, then those quests SHOULD take you to about lvl 52 or so, maybe even 55 (there are only 2-3 MSQ dungeons and Trials have always given crap for exp). Those of us that did all the quests ahead of time have our "edge" in the fact that our gear greatly outpaces what will be seen in early HW areas, whereas a new player will have more levels under their belt to compensate for their inherent lack of super balanced stats.

---

Not a strange assumption. Level 50 quests dont currently give any experience.

That said, I dont think I mentioned that there was some kind of problem with new players having to do the MSQ during leveling? Why exactly are you responding to my post with this argument?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spiritreaver1217

ANSWER: Just under two weeks.

---

That is not an average by any means, for the average player that is.

Note: since people seem to enjoy reading things that arent writen, Ill make an additional disclaimer that I dont be any means consider 2 weeks impossible. It is just simply faster then an average rate mentioned.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Felis

You have to see it how it will be in 3.0, not how it is in 2.0. In 3.0 you will not have completed ''leveling up'' while reaching the lv50 msq.

---

Your quote doesnt quite clarify what you mean by that.

Okay, we talked waaay too much of all the expansion stuff the evil devs /sarcasm locked away from new players. Apparently complete newbies who begin from scratch during early access or after release will not see anything related to Heavensward untill they finish the 2.55 main scenario quests. But is that so? What will it be like for new players?
- Well, for starters they will be able to roll an Au Ra. This might not sound like a big deal, but if current players want their mains to be Au Ra they either buy a fantasia or purchase the collectors edition for a free one. Completely new players do not have to deal with these costs. They can roll a fresh Au Ra with the regular version and play.
- If said new players are PC players they will also benefit from the updated DX 11 graphics.
- As soon as the new players join a Free Company with a house they will be able to, at the very least, enter the workshop and depending on what materials will be needed, maybe even meaningfully contribute.
- As soon as they reach 50, which happens before the 2.0 questline ends, they begin to earn experience points that are lost for current players. All those quests, trials, dungeons and raids only give us items and gil, but for them it also means a lot of xp. Sure, the xp requirements increase considerably with each level but still, new players will be well on their way to 60 when the gates of judgement are opened to them. Even if the new job quests will send players to HW areas the new players will get class abilties, traits and attribute points as they level up by doing what is level capped for us.

Sure it will be a torture for those who dont care about the story, the gold saucer, the currently available combat classes or combat in general, but in some ways newbies will have an edge over us, it would seem.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aeyis

Not a strange assumption. Level 50 quests dont currently give any experience.

---

Because level 50 is the current cap. With your assumption, when HW hits, no one will be able to gain experience through questing because level 50+ quests wouldn't award experience.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aeyis

Not a strange assumption. Level 50 quests dont currently give any experience.

That said, I dont think I mentioned that there was some kind of problem with new players having to do the MSQ during leveling? Why exactly are you responding to my post with this argument?

---

they will give exp in HW :) currently yes 0 exp but it will change also all quests will give double the current exp and they are putting gear in the quests.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Musashidon

they will give exp in HW :) currently yes 0 exp but it will change also all quests will give double the current exp and they are putting gear in the quests.

---

I see, thanks for the source and info. Well that settles it then, I can no longer respond to the arguments used against me.
That just leaves the question why such arguments were used in the first place, seeing how as mentioned several times now, I agree with the content being locked behind the story.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiara1

I feel sorry for new players who have to go through the entire main quest just to get into the expansion.

---

i have to wonder why people keep using new players as a point of reference for the expansion. as they are new players, the entire game is new to them.
the only thing people could say is "i want to play x job, but cant because its in the expansion area".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spiritreaver1217

Just saying, but how long does it take to go 1-50 for a brand new player anyways?

I ask that having an answer already from watching and helping a group of players in my FC who just came over from WoW.


ANSWER: Just under two weeks.
.

---

There have been significant buffs to exp and the ability to access multiple avenues of exp for new players these days. In 3.0 I still expect leveling to be much slower. 2 weeks to grind to sixty might be possible for some, others will take 4 weeks depending on play style I'm sure. It's part of the reason we don't get raids until 3.1, as SE is anticipating it to take a bit of time to complete 50-60.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duuude007

This has long been discussed and was addressed for 3.0, to enable ease of access to instances.

Partial parties will be optional in ARR content (pre 50), and possibly even chocobo companions can fill vacancies.

Also- first-timers to dungeons will be in priority DF queues.

---

No first timer bonus for him if I queue with him.

Partial parties is great.. if you have people that'll go with you. I will not ask people to do that for him. He's *my* responsibility.

Started 3 weeks ago, plays about 2 maybe 3 hours a day. Those dps queue times...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nadirah

No first timer bonus for him if I queue with him.

---

This is confirmed, where exactly?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kauthryn

So long as high level characters receive rewards, they will queue.

---

Only if they want/need those rewards and there aren't easier and better ways to obtain them. Sure, I could queue up for roulette... or I could just go farm Final Coil for the same amount of time and receive a much greater reward for doing so (tomestones and possible gear drops). Given those options, I'm going to choose farming instead. So will a lot of others.

Gating content for alts is a great way to guarantee that people will continue to run dungeons even after they've already cleared them and gotten everything they want/need from them on their main.

Why are you all even still arguing? They aren't going to change it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fortified

Why are you all even still arguing? They aren't going to change it.

---

Eh, you might as well. Not too much to do on the forums when you're anxious with HW.
You know how silly threads get after a while when the lull of the game starts to get at cha'.
OP stopped talking ages ago and has since made a new topic lol.

No thanks. Fully support the MSQ requirement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duuude007

This is confirmed, where exactly?

---

I'm not first timer. If its giving priority to first timers, why would it with me when I'm *not*?

Its for solo queuers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nadirah

I'm not first timer. If its giving priority to first timers, why would it with me when I'm *not*?

Its for solo queuers.

---

Oh, ok. So, not confirmed. Roger that.

So, we actually don't have any reply of new players.

Well I do now, yesterday 6 new players joined my FC, they are really interested in HW, but couldn't wait to start the game, so they started ARR.

They really enjoy that they need to grow towards HW, as even now they have a lot to learn. Also, of what they saw/read about the new jobs, they say they are glad they are locked. It's like a reward once you finish ARR.

One of the newbie isn't that interested in the story itself, but prefer to start learning easily, then to be rushed and need to be an expert from day 1.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reisui

So, we actually don't have any reply of new players.

Well I do now, yesterday 6 new players joined my FC, they are really interested in HW, but couldn't wait to start the game, so they started ARR.

They really enjoy that they need to grow towards HW, as even now they have a lot to learn. Also, of what they saw/read about the new jobs, they say they are glad they are locked. It's like a reward once you finish ARR.

One of the newbie isn't that interested in the story itself, but prefer to start learning easily, then to be rushed and need to be an expert from day 1.

---

Yep, I do the exact same thing in every game with expansions. I like to explore everything first before I move on to the next thing.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/56018485.jpg

Keep the msq requirement.

I am going to have to say: NO! Ishgard is a very xenophobic state, they closed their gates for a reason. Only reason the WoL and his/her companions are allowed is, because they protected the city from a invasion of dragons. If everyone was allowed to enter, then there would not have been any point in having a gate in the first place.

This does not mean that I agree with SE about gating the 3 new jobs, since AST/DRK/MCH are going to level in the same zones as the other 30-50, the questgiver should atleast be outside Ishgard, but I do understand that the new jobs are a reward for those that have finished the 2.0 storyline.

The 2.0 storyline is not long, only thing that will take alot of time is the queue time for the dungeons and trials, the patch 2.1 till 2.55 can be done in 6-10 days if you play around 2-4 hours a day. My friend did that and she finished the storyline within 7 days with a playtime of 3 hours a day. If you start now, you should be ready for Early Access/Launch.

I suppose all we can hope for is SE don't gate the second expansion (and any future expansions) behind Heavensward.